Hello everybody,
at the moment I'm considering to get one or two SRX's for a XV-3080. A Piano-SRX would be my first choice, either the -02 or the -11. At the store I played the SRX-02 and a Fantom X8, since they didn't have the SRX-11 in stock, so I wasn't able to play the 02 and the -11 side by side to compare them.

My question: are the Fantom piano and the SRX-11 piano coming from the same sample library, therefore sounding similar? Roland says, that there are 704 samples used in both the Fantom and the SRX-11, so most likely they used these for both instruments.

By the way, after comparing the Fantom and SRX-2, I enjoyed the SRX-02 more, 'cause there was more 'soul', depth and roundness in the 02 for my taste, while I found the Fantom to be a bit too offensive with a kind of 'metallic' edge to it.

Now I would like to know if the SRX-11 is nearly the same as the Fantom piano. I've listened to the demos of the SRX-11 at Roland and liked it a lot. But those are demo sounds, could be different in real life, and I wasn't totally pleased with the Fantom piano (considering they both use the same samples).

Can anybody give me some information about this and clear up my confusion a bit? Thanks.

pirx

Hi pirx, the waveforms used in the SRX-11 are completely different than the waveforms used in the Fantom. I found out that the original Fantom Ultimate Grand patch is based on 704 samples off of a Yamaha Grand. The SRX-11 patches are based on 704 samples taken much later on a Steinway in a studio in Los Angeles by Dan Blessinger (chief engineer at MartinSound Studios) and Scott Tibbs of Roland Corp. The SRX-11 and the RD700SX share some of the same waveforms but the Fantom and the SRX-11 do not.

I just purchased the SRX-11 on my lunch hour today and I'll be installing it in my X8 later tonight when I get home. I'm looking forward to finally hearing the -11 thru my Event monitors.

I also have the SRX-02 installed in my X8 and I enjoy several of the patches/waves on that card, primarily for using in performances with other instruments. For solo piano work, I prefer the original Fantom patches (slightly tweaked to personal taste) and the SRX-11 patches which I first auditioned in January 2005.

I remember reading on some forums about differences in sound quality when SRX cards were installed in different Roland units. Something about SRX card patches sounding different when played from X-series units, vs. XV-series units, vs. S88-series units (possibly due to different digital-to-analog converters). It may have only related to older units like the XV-2020. It didn't apply to me so I can't remember exactly what was said.

Hope this helps.

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When most people go to work they work. When musicians go to work they play. Which do you prefer?

Thank you, Still Learning, this really helps. I think I have to wait until they got the -11 in stock to try another comparison. Reviews on the -11 are quite varying from stellar to horrible - so guess I have to check it out by myself.

If you don't mind, you could write two or three words about your new SRX-11 and how it comes through your Eventide (very good monitors by the way), just a first impression.

Thanks again

pirx

I'll do that pirx. If I have time I may also run the same sequenced song thru an SRX-02 patch, an SRX-11 patch, and the Ultimate Grand patch. Converting to MP3 will probably loose a good portion of the fidelity but it will give you a small comparison.

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When most people go to work they work. When musicians go to work they play. Which do you prefer?

O.K. pirx, attached is an mp3 with 3 samples stitched together. The first is the Fantoms Ultimate grand patch, the second is the SRX02 Premier Grand patch and the third is the SRX11 Superb Grand patch. The raw stereo patches are approx. 2mb each. Artemio's limit here is 500kb so I had to compress (mp3 at 96kbps) the file.

I've spent about 30 minutes with the SRX11 card tonight, I like several of the patches quite a bit and I think that with a little tweaking (for my room acoustics and my personal taste) that I will find it to be my favorite, for $100.00US I couldn't pass up this Guitar Center deal.

Bottom line for you (and for everyone really) is that piano sounds are a very personal thing. I'm glad that there are so many subtle variations, it makes it easier for all the individuals in the World to find one they like.

Good luck with your decision.

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When most people go to work they work. When musicians go to work they play. Which do you prefer?

Thank's a lot, Still Learning, this is reeeeally helpfull! This is the best comparison I could get. Surprisingly I still like the SRX-02 most, second is the Ultimate Grand. The SRX-11 sounds too bright to my ears. But I have to listen to the clip several times to make up my mind. All three have their own character and you're right, it totally depends on personal taste and preferences.

Relating to prices you are really lucky over there in US. Here in Europe we have to pay twice the price in Euros (and Euro is even a bit more against $), currently it's 300,- Euros for a new SRX, regardless which one.

Thank's again really, it avoids a wrong choice, especially using the same sequence here. That makes the comparison very easy.

By the way, nice girls on your User photo :-)

pirx

I posted to this thread and have a link there under the heading "Piano Comparison" to a web site that compares the piano sounds from many cards and samples. See if that helps you make the decision.

For me, though, it really it comes down to which one responds well to your touch and sounds right to your ears. It isnt just about the samples then, it is also about how they program them into the patch.

I have a Fantom X6 and did not really like the feel or response from the Ultimate Grand patch. I was also not happy with the piano patches on the SRX boards and looked at getting one of the Coakley disks. Eventually though I played through all of the onboard piano waves and found one set on the fantom which I did like. Then I played with the velocity settings so that it responded the way that I liked. Now I love the piano sound I get from my Fantom X without having to spend any money to get a better piano sound.

Current boards: Fantom X6 and P-80

Thank you Howard, that's also a very big help. I went through that thread recently and didn't see the link for some strange reason. Now I have a lot samples to compare to make up my mind.

What I would like to ask: are the SRX-Patches as tweakable as all the stock patches in a Fantom for example and, most imprtant, would I be able to save the changes somewhere in the machine (I'm currently thinking of the xv-3080 I'm going to use with the SRX's)?

pirx

These SRX cards are basically waves with some patches which use those additional waves.

I have never played with the XV-308 but I had an XP-60 and the old JV cards and was able to tweak them. I would then save the new patches to my user bank. I see from other posts that you can tweak the SRX cards on the Fantom so I dont see why you cant do it on the 3080. It appears to have 128 user memories and it is expandable with a memory card so I think it should work.

Current boards: Fantom X6 and P-80

Thanks Howard.
please allow one more question (apart from SRX possibilities): I've listened to the samples at 'PlayIvorys', which is a great comparison. The 'William Coakley' piano, which I really like, is mentioned to be compatible to Fantom X and XR. So, do I see it right, that Williams piano can be transfered to a 1Gb card (SD or whatever is compatible to the XR) and then be played right from the inserted card? Or is it necessary to load it into the XR's Sample-RAM (when extended to 512 MB)?

If it's possible the easy way (via card), this definitely would be one more reason for me to get the XR as my next synth. On the other hand it wouldn't be an easy way to extend the RAM to load the piano, since expensive DIMM is needed, which is also not easy to find.

Maybe you can explain this with some few words, if you don't mind. Thank you.

pirx

You have to load it into Sample Ram and apparently it takes just over 4 minutes to load. I have seen complaints from some people regarding this load speed by the Fantom but William Coakley said it is slower than the time it takes to load his sounds onto the Motif. This is not really a long time but I found with tweaking that I got the sound I wanted.

For me it comes down to whether you want to try every possible patch to find the right one or just create it yourself. After all, all the tools are right there. The benefit to trying to create it yourself is that you learn more about programming and can apply that to other sounds that you want to use.

Also, every keyboard is different as well so the way it respond from my keyboard will be different than how it responds from your controller. There are so many variables which is why I set out to program it myself. Now if I play the patch through my P-80 which has fully weighted keys then I use a slightly different patch as the velocity points at which you want to change samples might change depending on the response of the keyboard. You should keep that in mind as you are looking at getting yourself this module so how the SRX card sounds to someone else playing it on their controller might be very different to how it sounds playing it on your controller.

I hope this helps you, pirx.

(I think that was a little more than a few more words)

Current boards: Fantom X6 and P-80

Yes, thank's Howard. Considering your info for me the way to go is SRX at the moment and tweaking the patches to get the right sound. William Coakleys piano and also Ivory are superb but out of reach for me right now. I would have to get a Fantom and RAM first, don't know if it's worth it, considering loading time. Sometimes I have to change sounds quickly, cannot wait several minutes for the piano (if I understand it right what you said).

Another way would be to get a second XV unit (for example 3080 or 5080, prices are dropping), so I can play two units on the same MIDI channel at the same time, set to different piano sounds (maybe SRX's), which gives me more possibilities to combine the best characteristics of different piano samples/sounds, each totally tweakable. This could be better than depending on just one sound from one unit.

So time will tell how it works for me. Usually things are not perfect immediately, it's a kind of development, and I'm just beginning.

Thanks for information, Howard.

pirx

Pirx, I want to clear up two things. First is that Ivory doesnt load on the Fantom. You run that on a computer. The Coakley patches do however load on the Fantom.

The second thing is that I think you load all the samples before you start playing and then you can select any patch you want. So you dont need the second unit just so you have the patch ready, unless you are running low on RAM.

Also, you can check out William Coakley's website which explains how his patches work. I am not certain whether it will work on your module although it certain works on the Fantom line. Also, If you call him he will answer any questions that you have so feel free to call him as well.

Current boards: Fantom X6 and P-80

Yeah, I will send him an email to clear up things, when I decide to go the Fantom-way. I've visited his website but couldn't find explanations relating Fantom, just some words about what kind of unit the Fantom is. But I'm shure there is some info somewhere.

For now I'm thinking about how to get the best out of XV/SRX combinations, maybe two xv-units in conjunction with SRX's (without Coakley or other sampled pianos).

Thanks for your efforts, Howard.

pirx

"Another way would be to get a second XV unit (for example 3080 or 5080, prices are dropping), so I can play two units on the same MIDI channel at the same time, set to different piano sounds (maybe SRX's), "

Eh, you know that you can do this with just a single unit, right?