so when juno-g will get new keybed?

[jackpelter]

Did anyone actually play the juno g before they bought it??
You must know what the keybed was like before you handed your cash over. It amazes me how many owners on here are unhappy with what they bought. Just enjoy what you own!


@ dbijoux You are 100% right...
"This Steinway comparison is just laughable. I'd love to see who ever said that play even a chord on 'any' concert grand piano, let alone pull off a run or arpeggio. I'm rather certain a complete piece would be out of the question."

And here too...
"The bottom line is that the Juno-G keyboard is still solid, after countless hours I've put on it."



If you want Fantom X quality, save up for one, simple solution.

[latinojazero]

well well,
i have put the finger on the wound have i?
i am pleased to see that this posting is getting lively.

"let's hold hands and contact the living" like Ronnie Scott used to say to a boring audience, incidentally one of the many clubs where I have played countless times. They no longer use a Steinway there, they have a C5 (Yamaha) now I believe, but I wouldn't remember, I play in too many clubs to remember their pianos, as long as they are in tune and the monitoring is good, I trust the club's reputation for providing good gear.
I have played a real nice Steinway last summer at Montreal Jazz Festival. Sometimes I remember when it is exceptionally good, or bad..

LIke I trusted Roland's reputation for putting a decent keyboard on their Juno G.. big mistake!

And yes I still have my original Yamaha DX7 mark 1 with "E" expansion board installed [you haven't got a clue of what I am talking about have you?]

I have performed and recorded on the best Rhodes, XP80s, mini moogs, odisseys, CS80s, Wavestations, Motifs, Fantoms, M1s, Sy85s etc. etc
Even the XP50 had a funny feeling keyboard, but somehow it worked as indeed you could control the touch quite remarkably.

I am happy to confirm that the Juno-G has got by far THE WORST KEYBOARD ACTION I HAVE EVER ENCOUNTERED ON ANY TOUCH SENSITIVE SYNTH!

The problem lies with this particular batch of keys that Roland/Edirol have come out with, and hush hush also quickly replaced (that's why they advertise a better keyboard action on their latest models like Juno Stage etc.)
I could put up with the keys being slightly smaller and shorter than a standard synth, but the shorter keybed inside the instrument makes such that FOR THE SAME AMOUNT OF VELOCITY, THE WHITE KEYS REQUIRE MORE STRENGHT THAN THE BLACK KEYS, RESULTING IN THE BLACK KEYS SOUNDING LOUDER AND UNNATURAL.
Just try to play an F#min chord with your right hand (F#-A-C#-F#): you will have your index finger playing the A note tucked in between the G# and A# keys, and closer to the keybed inside. Feel how much extra pressure you need in order to play that A compared to the other notes in the chord.
You might say "who cares" but if you are playing a nice piano ballad with an exposed piano part, you would care because YOU WILL END UP WITH NOTES STICKING OUT, and you might not get a call again from whoever hired you..

Free tip:
Everyone is complaining about the Juno piano but the problem is not the piano sound, in fact the Juno Grand ain't that bad really when I play it off my RD300SX weighted keys, because I can control the three different velocity samples layers that make up the piano patch, something you can't do on the Juno-G itself.
You want better piano and rhodes and strings and brass sounds on the Juno-G? Get rid of the velocity splits and zones and layers as much as you can and go back to basics, and it will be more playable. My best piano sound has got one sample (internal wave 157) with a lot of tweaking of the filter and amplitude velocity to make it somehow playable.

THE JUNO G KEYBED CANNOT HANDLE THE COMPLEXITIES OF A VELOCITY SENSITIVE, VELOCITY MULTISAMPLED INSTRUMENT LIKE YOU WOULD TEND TO EXPECT. Yes you can practice on it and somehow get more used to it, but it is very unnatural and ultimately a time waste.

I did try the Juno G before buying, but as with most pieces of gear, you don't really know what you bought until you take it home and spend your next week fiddling with it, and in fact you will only know the moment you start gigging with it. That's why you depend on the company's reputation when you make a choice. Mistake!

I still occasionally use my Juno G as a second keyboard, with few selected sounds where all the velocity settings have been carefully given the check over, and yes it is a nice synth, but WHAT A SHAME ROLAND! It could have been a brilliant synth.

My son's £100 Yamaha home keyboard bought from Argos catalogue has got a better keyboard response, so did really Roland do it to save money? Somehow I don't think so. I think Roland would have still sold the Juno G with a better keybed and an extra £50 price tag.

IMHO I think Roland have just messed up, an experiment in keyboard dynamics gone badly wrong.

[raccoon]

latinojazero,

i agree with you about the velocity switching.
if you play the piano then, on the juno-g, the black keys
will sound brighter, because you will tend to cross into the next layer on them.
i made my own piano patches with single waveforms - like it better this way

[dbijoux]

I'll be first to stand corrected.

It's rather interesting to hear that accomplished players consider the Juno-G an alternative. Admittedly, I didn't give much credit to your first response in ALL CAPS, but you left out that you can actually play. It's more obvious now, you were intending to get a rise.

Well, I left something out too, the Juno is my only board. You can feel pity for me, but as it is, I play the Juno for hours a day and have eventually come to terms with the velocity inconsistency. In some cruel fashion of the word, I see it as discipline.

What I'm curious about, being self-taught, will my technique actually suffer because of the board? I suspect, hope rather, that when I do get a full-size natural keybed again that I will be amazed by the ease of playing - pardon a slight retraining to accomodate the larger, heavier keys.

I know it's not the greatest keybed in the world, but there are certainly worse(maybe not at the same price, but they have no Fantom engine either). Even you admit the sound is good, and the compromise is well enough for many. Would I like to pay an extra $50 for Fantom X8 keys - of course, but that just isn't the case.

[delirium]

>>>What I'm curious about, being self-taught, will my technique actually suffer because of the board?

of course your technique will suffer and if you're a beginner - will not develop and will screw you up in long run.

>>>I know it's not the greatest keybed in the world,

let's be honest - it sucks big time because IMO it's not playable for reasons already mentioned nicely by latinojazero .
You have to use second weighted keyboard to use it.
I am using RD700GX as a main board and all the other like juno-g, motif XS have go through it although XS has fantastic keybed. I wish juno had such....I'd pay bigger price for this with no problems.

And is a shame because juno-g is so cute and I have nice, soft, rucksack like bag for it

[dbijoux]

"of course" - that worries me.

I guess I can keep it in perspective tho, while still agreeing and disagreeing. I've played keys for years but only seriously paid attention to my technique since the Juno. It all sounds rather ironic now.

Alas, it is cute and I did buy it for the looks and sound, of course, not the keys. I still think they are good enough, but can understand the pain for those with a proper keybed on the same rack.

[tompabes]

I totally agree with latinojazero and his analysis. As I said, I have played on a number of keyboards as well (although not so big...), and found that the Juno is the most difficult to play. When you try it for the first time, the "feel" is better than the feel of other cheap keyboards like the Korg X50, Yamaha MO6 etc., because it is slightly heavier. But when you actually play it for some time you discover that the Juno is the keyboard where it is more difficult to play, because the keys are too short and it is difficult to play fast passages correctly and because it is difficult to get uniform dynamics, while the other instruments may feel bad but have better overall playability.
You realize this only after some time. I didn't even notice that the keys were shorter when I tried the Juno in the shop, because I wasn't even thinking about that.
That said, the Juno is still a great instrument for many reasons and I'm keeping it. But it does not make any sense to be Roland fanboys... I think we have the right to criticize Roland when it's needed. And that keybed is a bad, bad design choice.
You can ask me why I choose the Juno-G, then... well, I use three keyboards on my setup (Nord Stage, Juno-G and X5-D) and I needed something light and compact.
The reason why I can get on with the Juno is because I only play synth parts on it, but I don't think I could cope with the keybed if it were my only synth.
That said, everyoune has different needs, different technique, plays different things with different sounds and arrangements... so many users can be perfectly satisfied with the Juno keybed. But we also must be objective.

[dbijoux]

You can't bring up objectivity while using words such as feel, or coping, let alone with difficulty. Dynamics, just as well, are controlled as much by your fingers as the board itself. Had it some glaring limitation such as some difficulty to recgonize very hard or very soft keytouches, this would be a different case.

The fact is, if you want to be objective, albeit impossible, we can only say the keys are shorter, skinnier. Whether that is for better or worse? It's purely subjective.

You're playing with words to make your point seem fact, when indeed it is only your opinion. Plus, this has nothing to do with fanboys; simply put the Juno-G wasn't meant to be the main keyboard on a rack next to a Nord Stage.

Pardon my criticism, I understand you are trying to help.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXKFTzlBziI

[maili]

Yes, I agree with you on that

thanks



ax-synth