What's special about Midi Channel 1? (keyrange)

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i008580
Posts: 10
Joined: 16:34, 1 September 2011

What's special about Midi Channel 1? (keyrange)

Post by i008580 »

Ok, here’s one I’m betting you haven’t heard…

I am using a Casio Privia PX-110 as midi controller for my Juno G. I make heavy use of performance mode with up to 6 or 7 patches layered/split. Some patches I configure to play on the Casio (by setting the patch midi ch assignment in performance mode to ch1, which is the only channel I have the Casio receiving) and some patches only on the Juno. Simple stuff.

When I have a patch in a performance that I want to ONLY play on the Casio, and I do not want that patch to sound on the Juno, I make use of the KeyRange setting for that patch in performance settings, putting it out of range (say, C1Lower to C1Upper). It still routes to the Casio full keyboard, because I’ve found that keyrange performance settings don’t transmit over midi, only keyrange PATCH settings. Fine.

This all worked for me, believe it or not, until recently when I must have made a change that I can’t track down now. Here’s the weirdness: When I change the keyrange for the patch (part) in performance mode, the changes do not take place on the JUNO keyboard. It’s as if I didn’t change the key range. Remember the midi channel set for the patch in question is midi ch #1. Now, if I change the midi channel to anything other than 1, the Juno keyboard plays according to the keyrange I specified. But for ch 1, the part sounds on all keys on the Juno.

Why?
marczellm
Posts: 106
Joined: 20:30, 24 March 2011

Re: What's special about Midi Channel 1? (keyrange)

Post by marczellm »

Hi,

You said that ch1 is the only channel your Casio receives. That means you also control the Casio from the Juno? Are there MIDI cables both way? Because then the problem can be the Casio sending back to the JUNO all MIDI data received from the JUNO, and as you said the perf keyrange doesn't transmit.
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i008580
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Re: What's special about Midi Channel 1? (keyrange)

Post by i008580 »

Maybe I have receive/send mixed up in my head. Only 1 midi cable, midi out on casio, midi in on juno. Don't want to play casio sounds on juno, just the other way around. I just played with it again: Any performance I do it in, same result. If I have a part in the performance that is set to Ch1 in the Part View screen, and I change the K.L value in the same screen for that part, it has no effect on the Juno whatsoever. If I change the Ch to 2, it does have the intended effect (set K.L. to C#4, keys C4 and under don't play the sound).

Take the Casio out of the picture completely, because I don't think it has anything to do with it. I unplug the midi cable from the Juno, reboot the Juno, try the whole scenario again and the same result. It is somewhere in the Global settings, because this happens no matter what performance I try it on. But darn if I can figure out what it is...
marczellm
Posts: 106
Joined: 20:30, 24 March 2011

Re: What's special about Midi Channel 1? (keyrange)

Post by marczellm »

If you could upload your perf as an attachment I could perhaps see what's wrong with it. The thing is the Juno really doesn't like if the parts are assigned to other channels. Although there's the option to change midi ch, it doesn't really work. For example, you cannot change part 3 volume if it's not on ch 3. It's an annoying thing but can not be fixed.
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i008580
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Re: What's special about Midi Channel 1? (keyrange)

Post by i008580 »

Thanks marczellm for the reply; I really appreciate it. But I don't think it has anything to do with the performance setup because the behavior is the same no matter what performance I try to do this with.

Furthermore, the behavior is occurring when the "part" number is the same as the "ch" number.

With a performance, if part 1 is set to midi ch 1 and I specify the keyrang for that part to be K.L. to C#4, the part still sounds on keys lower than C4 on the Juno keyboard. If I change part 1 to midi channel 2 or any channel other than 1, the part does not sound on keys lower than C4, which is the expected behavior.

The expected behavior was working until one day I monkeyed around with settings, including those in the SYSTEM menu to set up MTC. No matter how I try, I cannot figure what I did to make this happen.

The point of all this is that I want to have performances with multiple parts and have some sound only on the Juno Keyboard, some sound only on an external keyboard (currently set to Midi ch 1), and some to sound on both. With this situation, I cannot limit parts to play just on the external keyboard when using midi ch 1 for those parts by using an "out of range" KL value for those parts in performance mode. The workaround is to set the external keyboard to midi ch other than 1 (say 16) and set the parts intended for the external keyboard to 16 and set the KL value in performance mode appropriately. Since this works on midi ch other than 1, and since the Juno apparently does not pass the KEYRANG infomation to the external keyboard, the part sounds on the external keyboard full key range. When I really want a split for a part on the external keyboard, I modify the keyrang parameter in the PATCH itself, which does transmit over MIDI to the external keyboard. Is my thinking about how all this works correct? Again, my assumption that Juno does not pass the keyrang info over midi when it's set in performance mode, but does when keyrang is set in the PATCH, is just an assumption. It may be that I see the effect due to limitations of my external keyboard controller.

As noted, the workaround works. I am just trying to figure out what it is I don't understand, because this all worked before on midi ch1, and I did something that made it not work and I don't know what I did. This leaves me feeling like I could do something similar and spread the bad effects.

Thanks for your patience and willing to share knowledge!

Regards,
Kevin
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i008580
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Joined: 16:34, 1 September 2011

Re: What's special about Midi Channel 1? (keyrange)

Post by i008580 »

Well, I got it sorted. First, the humble pie. It was, in fact, the performance settings and my lack of understanding how they work. In my performances, I always had multiple parts assigned to Ch1 so that they would sound on an external keyboard controller set to Ch1. I would then leave other parts set to channel other than 1 if I didn't want them to sound on the external board. Problem was that the parts on Ch1 would not take to any keyrang parm settings.

Part 1 - Ch1
Part 2 - Ch1
Part 3 - Ch3
Part 4 - Ch4

It's because there is more than one part assigned to Ch1. In this case, you cannot have different values set for keyrang (I'm sure same is true for other paramaters as well) for two parts on the same midi channel. Set them both the same and it works fine. All this, of course, is what marczellm was trying to say. Thanks dude. So it has nothing to do with Ch1. I was just fiddling with one part at a time, so I never could understand it.

So now my question would be, is this a flat-out limitation? Can I not have multiple parts on the same midi channel and apply different performance parameter settings for them? I can't believe I'm the only one out there who uses an external controller (boy does the juno keybed bite it). So how do you deal with this?
Blues4dog
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Re: What's special about Midi Channel 1? (keyrange)

Post by Blues4dog »

If your controller cannot send on multiple midi channels then you will have to send the signal via DAW or external sequencer and create the other channels.
The key range settings apply to the Juno G's keyboard, not the sound module.
Don't worry. You are definitely not the only one using external controllers. I use both the Juno G and external boards in my live rig so that I can have different patches set up on each. They do interface with the laptop though. Makes it much easier to see what everything is up to and to control things.
BTW, there is nothing special about ch 1. It's just first on the list and usually the default setting except for electronic drums and drum machines. (and an old synth I had years ago which used to transmit on ch 4 for some strange reason)
Cheers
B4D
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