Lost for words

Questions related to Roland Clan site and forum
chicks
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Joined: 19:22, 28 May 2008

Re: Lost for words

Post by chicks »

Quinxx,

"Just because your king of the castle does`nt mean your always right.. "

... but it does mean you can remove people from your castle.

Its hard to say what you would and wouldn't do when you aren't in the position to do so.
jessej
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Re: Lost for words

Post by jessej »

Artemiy wrote:
>You and a few others keep saying what WE should do, but you yourselves NEVER do a thing. While you always accuse us for our "dictatorship" here, but what is your personal input, instead of SUGGESTING OTHERS WHAT TO DO? Go on, start your own forum, and I'll see where you'll get with your attitude.

I can't say what other should or shouldn't do, everyone is responsible for their own actions, but...

I do have a a few forums I run, with the second largest being about the size of the Fantom Clan one. It's been up since 03 Oct 2002 and I run it not as an, what you called "dictator" but as an democracy.

There are no fights and during the 7 years it has been up only one member had to be removed, because he was trying to sell drugs on the forum. All moderators have to do occasionally is, usually by the request of the users themselves, is to move post to another thread.

We have free speech and no threads have been locked or deleted once. In a democracy/community people take care of each other, but in a dictatorship, things get out of hands quickly. We have never had a single thread like this during the whole time...

I also have 7 sponsors on that forum, and the sponsors and the users also interact and get along without any trouble.

With one common purpose and one common goal, it really shouldn't be difficult to get along without killing/banning/deporting or putting free thinkers in jail.

Just my 5c. But you go ahead run your forum as you see fit... I'm not saying you how to do it, I'm just telling you how I do it without problems like these.
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Artemiy
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Re: Lost for words

Post by Artemiy »

Jesse, you take the "dictatorship" thing too seriously, as it is me only jokingly mentioning this because of how my actions are commented by some. And you still do not understand what the things that happen here mean in a global way, maybe because you do not know this forum that much, at least not as much as I do.

Unless you haven't noticed, many "flame" and "whine" topics develop by themselves without any participation of me and the moderator team. It's only when we try to make everyone stop continuing the pointless bashing, you and a few others start to say that we forbid telling the truth and stuff like that...

But the thing is, you still do not understand everything I say on this matter, do not understand where I am coming from and where I'd like to be. Which is a pity, because I have wasted around 10 hours in the last week just trying to get my message to you.

I have no will and no more energy to go on with this, sorry. You either understand me and fulfill my asks, or... well, you know. You have other places to express yourself as you wish to.
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Quinnx.
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Re: Lost for words

Post by Quinnx. »

"but it does mean you can remove people from your castle. "
Thats an action that can be take if it is deemed to be for good reason.

"Go on, start your own forum"

That wont resolve the current issue with users and the clan..

"If you still do not understand me - "

I understand exactly what is being said

my responses in this discussion so far are for the users.

The point of contention is forum discussion and moderation
they both play apart of the problem as well as the solution.
To ignore one is to ignore the other and throw ones hands up in the air and say I give up its too much effort then the users pay the price once again, nothing changes an history repeats itself.
jessej
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Re: Lost for words

Post by jessej »

Sounds about right to me Artemiy.

But if roland would be in the dialog, openly, there would most likely be no whining to begin with... since we all would know what to expect. It's all about fair play, and for fair play all teams must play equally fair.

I think it would be a lot easier for us all to understand each other if we all could skip the forum part and go to the local pub and does beers together... including Dan.. and the japanese coders we don't even know the names of... After a few nights like that, and a few all nighters doing some serious coding, I promise Roland would have the best workstation on the planet...

But even if I would understand exactly where you are coming from and where you want to be going, it still doesn't automatically mean I would agree with your world view.

I also hope you stop wasting time to get things trough our thick skulls and instead get down on those tutorial videos you have promised to release a while ago. That will not be a waste of time! :)
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Artemiy
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Re: Lost for words

Post by Artemiy »

And no, you guys still did not get me. You scream so loud you can't hear anyone but yourself. This seems to me a dead end, guys.

Please re-read this again, just in case, and keep in your mind for all your next posts, or restrain yourself from posting at all:
http://forums.rolandclan.info/?action=s ... =15&page=1
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Quinnx.
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Re: Lost for words

Post by Quinnx. »

yes we have seen the statement
However, it has been born out of frustration and is so arbitrary and vague as to make no sense.

"But posting same information in dozens of topics,"

Impossible.. information is always repeated depending on who it is directed at..

"posting all the complains (most of which are, in fact, imaginary)"

Come on.. art are you serious..?

Give an example:
In fact if most
Give more than one..

"Any new topic similar to the dozen you have already started will be deleted and your account will be banned once and for all."

Wow
So now people have to be careful that the subject matter is not Similar? (define similar)
I could go into alot of aspect of this statement an it would take up several volumes..
There are no limits to how this can be applied (even if it is applied to complaints)
Are you telling users they cant express or share there frustration on the forum?
So what, are you telling people to be happy all the time.

"You may complain about your "speaking the truth", "censorship" and "freedom of speech" (which you seem to not understand the meaning of)"

That is just being sarcastic and sadistical and once again hitting users unfairly on so man levels..

"with a positive mood, as originally intended. "

non of this is positive.. and from what your stating it appears the users are being asked to become droids or mindless robots.

The whole mood of the the statement is full of anger its nearly as bad as any flame tread i have seen on the forum..


"But you never do anything yourself, or your beginnings fail in a relatively short time. This is the real proof that almost no one is interested in bringing up what you want to such a large scale."

Now this part of the statement appears to be directed at an individual.
Are`nt policies or statements suppose to be generic..

if I was to take this as a personal statement
my response would be..
I am a forum user as is every one else not a moderator.
When one initiates a post the intention is to generate debate.
As long as that post is not a flame, its a valid post..
if no one is interested they do not have to participate and the post dies.
If someone finds the subject matter a touchy one that is their own perception and they alone need to deal with there feelings on the matter.
There are many ways to express without flaming.
however when a thread is flamed it usually insights more flaming and chaos in the thread..
If users had complete control of their threads then maybe we could clean it when it is flamed and keep it on track.
I personal have had to ask people in a thread to stop flaming as it is a serious topic, but flaming is insisted upon and where are the moderators..
Eventual its crash and lock <--history repeats itself..

If the initial post is not a flame the problem is not the subject matter its the flamer.

However what im really getting from this whole statement is not only is it hitting at users for expressing themselves its also telling them to stop complaining about ROLAND.
Now thats a bit difficult since the site is called ROLAND CLAN.
any complaints are gong to be about roland.
So the whole thing is un-workable in its current form.

Now i will make a suggestion (call it an experiment)
As suggested above.. if it is possible, allow people to moderate there own threads.
In that way, every user becomes solely responsible for the state of the thread and keeping it clean..
Maybe this will help.
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Artemiy
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Re: Lost for words

Post by Artemiy »

Why are you still here?
da-man
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Re: Lost for words

Post by da-man »

Quinnx,

You have helped greatly in this forum with your workarounds and solutions. I know I have benefited from your wisdom and insights.

Quoting an expert, "results not excuses". I really believe that this forum has given me "results" for most problems I've encountered on the X by people who are solutions oriented in their thinking like you Quinnx.

However in my opinion (which is always right according to my wife :) ) having people mod over there own threads is like having people referee their own games. I have never seen it work successfully.

This debate is much like a game of footy over here in Australia.

Art is the ref. It is his call. It's his game.

Whether you agree with it or not doesn't enter in the equation.

Ref's make calls so that the game goes on. You have to respect that.

I try to tell that to kids at school everytime we play a game. I'm the ref and I may not always get it right but my decision is final.

Art is just stepping in here as the ref and crying 'foul'. So lets all respect that and get back to making music and finding workarounds for anything that stands in the way.
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Quinnx.
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Re: Lost for words

Post by Quinnx. »

At least i can lay claim to one thing in this discussion..
I have discussed observations and offered possible solutions.
where as the home team is still in there corner and have not come out to play yet ;)
Septimo
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Re: Lost for words

Post by Septimo »

Bravo!... Now leave these guys alone, you're not gonna get them to agree with you, and they're not gonna get you to agree with them. some people just can't see what you see, others just wont, and some can, but pride will not allow them... Let it go.. Just keep posting solutions and whatever you find... but I think when you start asking "why is this" and "why is that" as if someone other than Dan knew, is where I think the problem lies... Just make statements and don't ask questions... If they wanna delete it, let them, and post it in a different way. If you make a statement and they delete it at least someone read it. ;)

I'll admit I didn't like you at first Quinnx, but through the years I've changed my prospective of you. mainly cus you're one of the few that are not biased, and you know what works and what doesn't. Don't pay attention to the nay sayers and say what you will, if they delete at least they're, if anything, doing their Job... Give 'em work to do.. ;D As long as you don't offend anyone in the process all is good.

Right?
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