Lost for words
Lost for words
hey art my friend..
I am at a loss for word at your new policy regarding posting..
it appears there is no room for any real debate any more.
How is one suppose to form a discussion is we have to keep looking over our shoulders all the time in case something has already been said..
Now the problem I see is where people come into a thread and throw it off topic then the banter begins
eventual it escalates into mayhem..
Also what heats up a thread is, some hot!! head will come in and start casting aspersions at other users for what they have posted, even if what they said was not a complain but an observation..
If someone comes a says Hey i found a Bug..
Its debatable but once again some people are alot more passionate than others and some dont even want to entertain any kind of downtalk on any gear even the G or fantom range.
they add flame to the fire..
a forum is for discussion..
if a thread get out of hand that not the users fault.
Locking threads is a sign of weakness in so many respects.
There is another solution, but it requires a little more effort.
If a thread is started in distaste well then of course it should be locked or removed..
If a thread has got out of hand it needs to be addressed before it escalates further.
If I was elected a moderator, the very! last thing I would do is Lock a thread, its too easy.
i would certainly keep an eye on them and make sure they stayed on topic.. Not wait for it to go off course and crash and then lock it.. thats just a failure for all angles and fails the user.
I have never! as long as i have been hear seen anyone put a thread back on topic, it is always allowed to crash and lock..
So with all due respect..
Its upto the referees to keep things from crashing first before blaming the users.
I dont see how we can have open discussion if one is not free to make related posts, when at some point someone will say something that can be defined as a complaint. if the reaction to that compliant if flame, then someone should stop the flame not wait for it to become fire and we have crash and lock all over again.
Now you can blame the users for flaming or instigate, but my experience has shown that those that are suppose to do house keeping as just as guilty.
Anyway.. maybe we will still be able have neatly debate if some proper house keeping is done without the stick.
I am at a loss for word at your new policy regarding posting..
it appears there is no room for any real debate any more.
How is one suppose to form a discussion is we have to keep looking over our shoulders all the time in case something has already been said..
Now the problem I see is where people come into a thread and throw it off topic then the banter begins
eventual it escalates into mayhem..
Also what heats up a thread is, some hot!! head will come in and start casting aspersions at other users for what they have posted, even if what they said was not a complain but an observation..
If someone comes a says Hey i found a Bug..
Its debatable but once again some people are alot more passionate than others and some dont even want to entertain any kind of downtalk on any gear even the G or fantom range.
they add flame to the fire..
a forum is for discussion..
if a thread get out of hand that not the users fault.
Locking threads is a sign of weakness in so many respects.
There is another solution, but it requires a little more effort.
If a thread is started in distaste well then of course it should be locked or removed..
If a thread has got out of hand it needs to be addressed before it escalates further.
If I was elected a moderator, the very! last thing I would do is Lock a thread, its too easy.
i would certainly keep an eye on them and make sure they stayed on topic.. Not wait for it to go off course and crash and then lock it.. thats just a failure for all angles and fails the user.
I have never! as long as i have been hear seen anyone put a thread back on topic, it is always allowed to crash and lock..
So with all due respect..
Its upto the referees to keep things from crashing first before blaming the users.
I dont see how we can have open discussion if one is not free to make related posts, when at some point someone will say something that can be defined as a complaint. if the reaction to that compliant if flame, then someone should stop the flame not wait for it to become fire and we have crash and lock all over again.
Now you can blame the users for flaming or instigate, but my experience has shown that those that are suppose to do house keeping as just as guilty.
Anyway.. maybe we will still be able have neatly debate if some proper house keeping is done without the stick.
- piaknowguy
- Posts: 2071
- Joined: 22:29, 14 April 2004
- Location: Canada
- Contact:
Re: Lost for words
LOL! Where do you get this stuff, Quinnx? That's like saying that police are just as guilty for all crimes commited!Now you can blame the users for flaming or instigate, but my experience has shown that those that are suppose to do house keeping as just as guilty.
Art has asked you to respect his values, his rules, and his forum! If you have a problem with that, go somewhere else!
Mature discussion and debate is not only accepted here, but encouraged, or you would have been banned a long time ago, Quinnx! (Take that as a compliment!)
Where things go wrong is when members begin to question the integrity of other members, the forum administration, as well as our RolandUS representatives, even suggesting ridiculous notions like conspiracies. These posts have been made by a select few who continued their antagonistic attitudes, fueled by their frustration of not receiving adequate support from Roland Japan! Dan Krisher had even posted that he has felt insulted by member posts! How is this supposed to help maintain the health of this forum, one which Artemiy has spent considerable time and effort building for your and my benefit?
I have a suggestion, Quinnx. Many here have a great deal of respect for your opinions. How about being part of the solution, as opposed to part of the problem?
A little house-cleaning! No stick, just truth!
Cheers!
PiaKnowGuy
Watch a video of - Some Guitar Shredding Done entirely on the X8!
PiaKnow
Re: Lost for words
+1Art has asked you to respect his values, his rules, and his forum! If you have a problem with that, go somewhere else!
Re: Lost for words
Although I appriciate your words..
At risk of repeating ones self.. (i will try be cyptic)
Appart from telling someone if you dont like it go somewhere else..
There are solutions
However even the most common sense solutions have been shot down..
So even when one try`s to take the correct path its discouraged..
So its kind of a catch 22
your damed if you do and your damed if you dont
Unless everyone plays happy all the time.
Now sometime sarcasm and dark humour about roland can be taken as Oh no not again...
Recently i have stated im happy with the G, so much so im no longer waiting for an update...
But i can still see both sides of any argument and can go either way..
I know whats missing, right now i have learned to get on with it..
people ask which should i buy x or g, and why..
Well that goes in to repetition and depending on what has gone before can get old argument resorected because people still ask the same questions and if where honest we can only give the same answers.
LOL! Where do you get this stuff, Quinnx?
Im trying not to repeat myself there.
anyway my wife has just reminded me of the time so im going to bed
God night!
At risk of repeating ones self.. (i will try be cyptic)
Appart from telling someone if you dont like it go somewhere else..
There are solutions
However even the most common sense solutions have been shot down..
So even when one try`s to take the correct path its discouraged..
So its kind of a catch 22
your damed if you do and your damed if you dont
Unless everyone plays happy all the time.
Now sometime sarcasm and dark humour about roland can be taken as Oh no not again...
Recently i have stated im happy with the G, so much so im no longer waiting for an update...
But i can still see both sides of any argument and can go either way..
I know whats missing, right now i have learned to get on with it..
people ask which should i buy x or g, and why..
Well that goes in to repetition and depending on what has gone before can get old argument resorected because people still ask the same questions and if where honest we can only give the same answers.
LOL! Where do you get this stuff, Quinnx?
Im trying not to repeat myself there.
anyway my wife has just reminded me of the time so im going to bed
God night!
Re: Lost for words
Quote Piaknowguy: I have a suggestion, Quinnx. Many here have a great deal of respect for your opinions. How about being part of the solution, as opposed to part of the problem?
I find Quinnx to be one of the most objective and mature people on this forum, and if you disagree with me, that's fine.
I think He's tried his fair bit to be part of the solution. The least is that he could be made a moderator as well.
Issues with the FG or not, I think its a brute of an instrument. I have problems with my FX, but i still love it, and would like a G. But since in the end, the person makes the music, not the instrument, I'll stick with my X for now.
I've been quietly reading the FG forums, and I think that Quinnx has done a lot more good than harm, with his solutions and workaround threads, etc etc.... tell me that aint positive?
As for the whiners, grow up. Make the best of what you have, and complain to Roland if need be, Let users here esp Artemiy have their peace.
I had a problem with my FX in which live play settings would not be saved. I called Roland UK, They were no help, said "we'll call you later". It's been more than a year, and no call-back. No problem. I re-installed the OS, and it's been fine since. A call-back just to check on me would have been most appreciated, but that's ok. In the end, I bought it to make music. I make my music one way or another. That's why we're all here, not so?
I think that Unity is strength. If we allow our differences over little "issues and bugs" to divide and split this clan up..... we lose, not Roland. Our strength as customers will be much weaker. Every clan has its disagreements, but the strength of the clan is to agree to disagree and live in peace.
Peace, y'all. No bickering.
Samuel
I find Quinnx to be one of the most objective and mature people on this forum, and if you disagree with me, that's fine.
I think He's tried his fair bit to be part of the solution. The least is that he could be made a moderator as well.
Issues with the FG or not, I think its a brute of an instrument. I have problems with my FX, but i still love it, and would like a G. But since in the end, the person makes the music, not the instrument, I'll stick with my X for now.
I've been quietly reading the FG forums, and I think that Quinnx has done a lot more good than harm, with his solutions and workaround threads, etc etc.... tell me that aint positive?
As for the whiners, grow up. Make the best of what you have, and complain to Roland if need be, Let users here esp Artemiy have their peace.
I had a problem with my FX in which live play settings would not be saved. I called Roland UK, They were no help, said "we'll call you later". It's been more than a year, and no call-back. No problem. I re-installed the OS, and it's been fine since. A call-back just to check on me would have been most appreciated, but that's ok. In the end, I bought it to make music. I make my music one way or another. That's why we're all here, not so?
I think that Unity is strength. If we allow our differences over little "issues and bugs" to divide and split this clan up..... we lose, not Roland. Our strength as customers will be much weaker. Every clan has its disagreements, but the strength of the clan is to agree to disagree and live in peace.
Peace, y'all. No bickering.
Samuel
Re: Lost for words
All I can say is you, Quinnx, still absolutely do not understand what we were asking for. Neither did Jim or Jesse, choosing not to post... which is very sad, because this means all the days we've spent explaining things to you were just wasted.
Which means that you will likely be facing the very same problems in the future.
Which means that you will likely be facing the very same problems in the future.
Re: Lost for words
Pianoguy wrote:
>Where things go wrong is when members begin to question the integrity of other members, the forum administration, as well as our RolandUS representatives, even suggesting ridiculous notions like conspiracies.
Same thing goes the other way around.
- When forum administrators suggest ridiculous notions about conspiracies like that some users are representatives of other companies, like Yamaha.
- When Roland representatives insult users and mock their thoughts and dismiss their concerns about their investments.
If the same question goes unanswered for months and months, should the question be answered or the asking be banned? I think answered, the new rules say the questions should be removed... I do not agree with such policies. So I will not post/ask, I think I still have the right to not post, yes?
And remember, North Korea is also a happy place, no-one is whining.
>Where things go wrong is when members begin to question the integrity of other members, the forum administration, as well as our RolandUS representatives, even suggesting ridiculous notions like conspiracies.
Same thing goes the other way around.
- When forum administrators suggest ridiculous notions about conspiracies like that some users are representatives of other companies, like Yamaha.
- When Roland representatives insult users and mock their thoughts and dismiss their concerns about their investments.
If the same question goes unanswered for months and months, should the question be answered or the asking be banned? I think answered, the new rules say the questions should be removed... I do not agree with such policies. So I will not post/ask, I think I still have the right to not post, yes?
And remember, North Korea is also a happy place, no-one is whining.
Re: Lost for words
there are currently somewhere around 16 threads (some locked and/or moved) that are very inflammatory toward Roland (some deserved and undeserved) and the Mods and Artemiy (which are totally undeserved). and all within the last week!!!
I truly do not believe Art or the mods are trying to quell dissension, but that they wont allow 16 different threads that say the same inflammatory thing said over and over again.
Art isn't trying to act like the KGB, he is only taking control of repeated inflammatory threads and posts that have run rampant in the last week. I applaud him for it because while Roland is deserving of the negativity, Art and the mods take the brunt of the frustration that Roland causes.
Feel free to post your displeasure or not; that is your freedom, but save a little for Roland and give Art a break.
P.S. I've only known Art to have banned Tasha who he has allowed to come back as Understanding... seems to me like Art is a very fair minded person
I truly do not believe Art or the mods are trying to quell dissension, but that they wont allow 16 different threads that say the same inflammatory thing said over and over again.
Art isn't trying to act like the KGB, he is only taking control of repeated inflammatory threads and posts that have run rampant in the last week. I applaud him for it because while Roland is deserving of the negativity, Art and the mods take the brunt of the frustration that Roland causes.
Feel free to post your displeasure or not; that is your freedom, but save a little for Roland and give Art a break.
P.S. I've only known Art to have banned Tasha who he has allowed to come back as Understanding... seems to me like Art is a very fair minded person
Re: Lost for words
"He`s only taking control of repeated inflammatory threads"
Locking threads is not taking control.. (its a sign of failure to moderate successfully)
its Banning discussion on an otherwise informative subject..
Moderators TAKING CONTROL of a thread is..
S toping flames
Putting threads back on track..
This is taking control..
Locking a tread before even attempting this is just pur laziness and degrades the board because all we see is flamed locked threads..
There are so many locked informative and inquiring threads that require responses but can no longer be responded to becuase they have been flamed and Locked..
So what do we do..
REPEAT the whole thread to get an answer?
How do we resolve these unanswered threads?
Someone like dan asks for information so he can respond.
information is given, the thread is flamed locked and no we cannot get an answer..
Clearly Locking threads like this is what tarnishes the look and feel of the clan and frustrates not only Art but the users too.
Control needs to be taken Yes, But also Effort need to be done to curtail the build up of Flames and keep thread clean.
This is the philosophy I would employ and not the Flame Crash and Lock method that seem to be the way at the moment.
Locking threads is not taking control.. (its a sign of failure to moderate successfully)
its Banning discussion on an otherwise informative subject..
Moderators TAKING CONTROL of a thread is..
S toping flames
Putting threads back on track..
This is taking control..
Locking a tread before even attempting this is just pur laziness and degrades the board because all we see is flamed locked threads..
There are so many locked informative and inquiring threads that require responses but can no longer be responded to becuase they have been flamed and Locked..
So what do we do..
REPEAT the whole thread to get an answer?
How do we resolve these unanswered threads?
Someone like dan asks for information so he can respond.
information is given, the thread is flamed locked and no we cannot get an answer..
Clearly Locking threads like this is what tarnishes the look and feel of the clan and frustrates not only Art but the users too.
Control needs to be taken Yes, But also Effort need to be done to curtail the build up of Flames and keep thread clean.
This is the philosophy I would employ and not the Flame Crash and Lock method that seem to be the way at the moment.
- piaknowguy
- Posts: 2071
- Joined: 22:29, 14 April 2004
- Location: Canada
- Contact:
Re: Lost for words
So Quinnx.
What do you suggest that we do about this thread? Do we just let you continue ad-nausea with your self-righteous rant, or is there a point where we, as moderators say 'Enough is enough'! There are approximately 12358 registered users in this forum, and about 12352 of them don't even need moderating! How ironic is that? lol
BTW, There are means of asking, or possibly re-phrasing questions (which is possibly why the question was not answered to the member's satifaction in the first place) without the need to repeat an entire thread. Artemiy has never said that members cannot re-post if their question did not get answered. Relevant questions concerning Roland product as well as many other products are welcome! Dealing with your pride issues and need for approval does tend to get very tiring! Speaking of flames, maybe the best thing to do is just to let you burn yourself out. So be it!
Have a nice day.
PiaKnowGuy
Watch a video of - Some Guitar Shredding Done entirely on the X8!
PiaKnow
What do you suggest that we do about this thread? Do we just let you continue ad-nausea with your self-righteous rant, or is there a point where we, as moderators say 'Enough is enough'! There are approximately 12358 registered users in this forum, and about 12352 of them don't even need moderating! How ironic is that? lol
BTW, There are means of asking, or possibly re-phrasing questions (which is possibly why the question was not answered to the member's satifaction in the first place) without the need to repeat an entire thread. Artemiy has never said that members cannot re-post if their question did not get answered. Relevant questions concerning Roland product as well as many other products are welcome! Dealing with your pride issues and need for approval does tend to get very tiring! Speaking of flames, maybe the best thing to do is just to let you burn yourself out. So be it!
Have a nice day.
PiaKnowGuy
Watch a video of - Some Guitar Shredding Done entirely on the X8!
PiaKnow
Re: Lost for words
PLEASE!!! EVERYONE SHUTUP!!!
What do you suggest that we do about this thread?
Let it ride..
Its seem to be pleasant enough, so far there is no flaming
except Semtimo
But i can see it is in Jest!
So Im not bothered here..(if i was moderating)
However if i was a moderator and someone else was posting this..
I would be alot more open minded, take on board what is being said and try apply some of what is being suggest without taking any criticism personally.
Just because your king of the castle does`nt mean your always right..
it takes experience and feedback to get it there.
This is feedback and I have seen similar feed back from other users in a manner that could be considered complaining.
To ignore user feed back is to allow the board to carry on the same path as it has been, with nothing resolved leaving users out in the cold and frustrated.
Its seem to be pleasant enough, so far there is no flaming
except Semtimo
But i can see it is in Jest!
So Im not bothered here..(if i was moderating)
However if i was a moderator and someone else was posting this..
I would be alot more open minded, take on board what is being said and try apply some of what is being suggest without taking any criticism personally.
Just because your king of the castle does`nt mean your always right..
it takes experience and feedback to get it there.
This is feedback and I have seen similar feed back from other users in a manner that could be considered complaining.
To ignore user feed back is to allow the board to carry on the same path as it has been, with nothing resolved leaving users out in the cold and frustrated.
Re: Lost for words
I double what piaknowguy said. And you Quinnx, if you know how one should be moderating, why haven't you started your own forum yet? You and a few others keep saying what WE should do, but you yourselves NEVER do a thing. While you always accuse us for our "dictatorship" here, but what is your personal input, instead of SUGGESTING OTHERS WHAT TO DO? Go on, start your own forum, and I'll see where you'll get with your attitude.
Re: Lost for words
Oh my.... This thread is far from being "Lost for words"
Re: Lost for words
And yes, Quinnx, as I said, do not enter someone else's church with your own bible.
Lately you seem take this whole place for granted and do not show much respect to what we have done over all these years to make this place what it is.
If you still do not understand me - please leave.
Lately you seem take this whole place for granted and do not show much respect to what we have done over all these years to make this place what it is.
If you still do not understand me - please leave.