Has anyone out there seen the internals of a V-Synth and a Fantom, side by side? Just wondering how different the hardware was (excluding the front panel etc)...
I've not had the chance to compare, but I'm wondering if all Rolands new synths share similar specs - just running different software? (would certainly keep Roland's production costs down!)
OK, maybe I'm way off (they may all be totally different!), but if the varios/fantom/v-synth all share similar boards there may be a chance that the v-synth could have V-cards to turn it into a Fantom type machine or a varios unit...
Just curious!
V-synth vs Fantom... for the brave only...!
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venusbasstrap
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Re: V-synth vs Fantom... for the brave only...!
No, the Fantom-S/X series and the V-Synth definitely do not share the same hardware.
The reason is that the Fantom-S/X are not all based on software - they have dedicated sound generation chips, which means that there are many dedicated hardware parts in them. However, as far as I know, the V-Synth is a completely software synthesizer. It just runs the default OS that you get from the factory and it can also boot the V-Cards. As the VariOS can boot V-Cards too (the VC system file differs from that of the V-Synth), you can guess that it has a similar hardware platform inside.
However, of course the V-Synth could have an OS emulating a Fantom, but it is a very stupid idea. V-Synth is a sound designer's tool, not a workstation.
Artemio.
The reason is that the Fantom-S/X are not all based on software - they have dedicated sound generation chips, which means that there are many dedicated hardware parts in them. However, as far as I know, the V-Synth is a completely software synthesizer. It just runs the default OS that you get from the factory and it can also boot the V-Cards. As the VariOS can boot V-Cards too (the VC system file differs from that of the V-Synth), you can guess that it has a similar hardware platform inside.
However, of course the V-Synth could have an OS emulating a Fantom, but it is a very stupid idea. V-Synth is a sound designer's tool, not a workstation.
Artemio.
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venusbasstrap
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Re: V-synth vs Fantom... for the brave only...!
was worth a try!
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venusbasstrap
- Posts: 15
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- Location: uk
Re: V-synth vs Fantom... for the brave only...!
of course - the only interest in the Fantom was for it's multitimbral use (not for it's sequencing ability), which i could see a use for on the V-synth.
Not everybody wants (or has the room for) both, so the option to switch the V-Synth to a more usable Multi orientated synth (albeit with less synthesis power) would be nice.
I look at the V-synth as a blank canvas that could probably (depending on dsp power) be put to any use - i like throwing ideas in the air!
I could also see Roland turning it into a Nord Electro style synth - with virtual drawbars on the screen for those Hammond moments!! you never know what they are thinking of next...
Not everybody wants (or has the room for) both, so the option to switch the V-Synth to a more usable Multi orientated synth (albeit with less synthesis power) would be nice.
I look at the V-synth as a blank canvas that could probably (depending on dsp power) be put to any use - i like throwing ideas in the air!
I could also see Roland turning it into a Nord Electro style synth - with virtual drawbars on the screen for those Hammond moments!! you never know what they are thinking of next...
Re: V-synth vs Fantom... for the brave only...!
i doubt that very much.
Roland already has a multipurpose keyboard called the V-combo that has real drawbars and a great rhodes sound with added piano and synthsounds and it can even read srx boards.
Whatever the next card will be it probably will be a bit more exotic than that (i hope)
Mr.XR
the difference between theory and practise is that in theory there is no difference
Roland already has a multipurpose keyboard called the V-combo that has real drawbars and a great rhodes sound with added piano and synthsounds and it can even read srx boards.
Whatever the next card will be it probably will be a bit more exotic than that (i hope)
Mr.XR
the difference between theory and practise is that in theory there is no difference
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venusbasstrap
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- Location: uk
Re: V-synth vs Fantom... for the brave only...!
I know they have different keyboards for different jobs, but... for those with limited space (like most of the studio's I work in), one synth capable of many things would be a godsend.
Take the D-50 card. A real D-50 (with extra voice cards) can be picked up for not much more than the v-card version, but most of us (i think) would prefer to have the V-synth version, rather than another keyboard taking up space.
I'm sure (hope) Roland are planning more exotic things for the V-synth, but if you look at the V-cards in the same light as the Fantom Expansion cards - then why not have a range of cards that lets it do anything!?
In the past I've programmed patches that both AKAI and Roland have used in their synth modules. I'm always looking for new sounds for my productions and more than looking forward to seeing where the V-Synth takes us next... I'm definately not suggesting that Roland repeat old technology - rather, offer a wider range.
The more options for us, the better - I'm sure you would agree!?
VBT
Take the D-50 card. A real D-50 (with extra voice cards) can be picked up for not much more than the v-card version, but most of us (i think) would prefer to have the V-synth version, rather than another keyboard taking up space.
I'm sure (hope) Roland are planning more exotic things for the V-synth, but if you look at the V-cards in the same light as the Fantom Expansion cards - then why not have a range of cards that lets it do anything!?
In the past I've programmed patches that both AKAI and Roland have used in their synth modules. I'm always looking for new sounds for my productions and more than looking forward to seeing where the V-Synth takes us next... I'm definately not suggesting that Roland repeat old technology - rather, offer a wider range.
The more options for us, the better - I'm sure you would agree!?
VBT
Re: V-synth vs Fantom... for the brave only...!
of course there is nothing wrong with having as many options as possible.
i am just saying that with the limited manpower that r&d probably has i would rather see them working on something more exotic than another organ emulation.
May i ask for which Roland products you programmed sounds?
That sounds interesting.
Maybe i have some of them.
best
Mr.XR
the difference between theory and practise is that in theory there is no difference
i am just saying that with the limited manpower that r&d probably has i would rather see them working on something more exotic than another organ emulation.
May i ask for which Roland products you programmed sounds?
That sounds interesting.
Maybe i have some of them.
best
Mr.XR
the difference between theory and practise is that in theory there is no difference
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venusbasstrap
- Posts: 15
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- Location: uk
Re: V-synth vs Fantom... for the brave only...!
The more exotic the better! 
About 10 years ago I programmed some sounds for the AKAI S3000 disk library - some of these patches were used on their SG01v Vintage module.
Soon after, many of my original waveforms were used on the Roland JV series 'Dance' board, the presets of which then spun off into various other synths including the Roland 'Dance' module...
A few people have asked me how I got some of the most distinct sounds... well most of the waves were combinations of synths, such as Cheetah MS6 and Roland Sh101 mixed together, or Juno6 and crunchy old Akai samples of my varied vintage gear.
These combinations always led to lots of harmonic content - which is always great for filtering!
At the time (and still to this day) it is great to hear one of my own creations in a club!
Nowadays people still ask me how I get my sound and the answer is always the same - HARDWARE!!
I've still yet to find a computer plugin that has real character without adding tons of additional processing. Many appear to sound great on first listen - but stick them in a mix and watch them blur, smear and generally kill the life of your track!! OK for fill-in sounds but not great for leads or bass.
Can anyone think of a standout sound in a recent track and name the plugin?? Whereas with most hardware you can normally spot the synth responsible.
For whatever reason, that character seems to appear more in hardware and I guess the best recent example of this would be the JP8000/8080 - Roland do it again!! Many plugins try to emulate this. OK, they may LOOK similar, but I've yet to HEAR one that comes anywhere near!
The V-synth also stands out this way and I hope it builds into something that more people desire...
About 10 years ago I programmed some sounds for the AKAI S3000 disk library - some of these patches were used on their SG01v Vintage module.
Soon after, many of my original waveforms were used on the Roland JV series 'Dance' board, the presets of which then spun off into various other synths including the Roland 'Dance' module...
A few people have asked me how I got some of the most distinct sounds... well most of the waves were combinations of synths, such as Cheetah MS6 and Roland Sh101 mixed together, or Juno6 and crunchy old Akai samples of my varied vintage gear.
These combinations always led to lots of harmonic content - which is always great for filtering!
At the time (and still to this day) it is great to hear one of my own creations in a club!
Nowadays people still ask me how I get my sound and the answer is always the same - HARDWARE!!
I've still yet to find a computer plugin that has real character without adding tons of additional processing. Many appear to sound great on first listen - but stick them in a mix and watch them blur, smear and generally kill the life of your track!! OK for fill-in sounds but not great for leads or bass.
Can anyone think of a standout sound in a recent track and name the plugin?? Whereas with most hardware you can normally spot the synth responsible.
For whatever reason, that character seems to appear more in hardware and I guess the best recent example of this would be the JP8000/8080 - Roland do it again!! Many plugins try to emulate this. OK, they may LOOK similar, but I've yet to HEAR one that comes anywhere near!
The V-synth also stands out this way and I hope it builds into something that more people desire...
Re: V-synth vs Fantom... for the brave only...!
Wow, venusbasstrap, it is an honour for me to hear that you did some programming/design for Roland and AKAI.
Regarding the software synths - the very most of them lack what every analogue and digital (not software) synth has - it's own personality, a distinct, unique character. The thing is that when you program a square wave or a filter in software, you use well-known mathematics for that, and everybody ends up with the same sounds. In addition, those "perfect" modeled waves and filters, due to their perfection, have no distinct character.
In any analogue synth (like juno, sh, jupiter) or digital synth (like d-50), the circuity is not ideal, not perfect - and this is what makes it shape the sounds and produce waves that have a character, that are original.
As the software can run on more and more powerful hardware, developers can create complex models that do not generate waves or filter sounds themselves, but they simulate the circuity of analogue/digital hardware.
Roland's VC-1 is the first software in my life that amazingly faithfully reproduces the character of a digital instrument, which makes it one the most remarkable andlong-awaited piece of software in many years. They did a fantastic job.
Artemio.
Regarding the software synths - the very most of them lack what every analogue and digital (not software) synth has - it's own personality, a distinct, unique character. The thing is that when you program a square wave or a filter in software, you use well-known mathematics for that, and everybody ends up with the same sounds. In addition, those "perfect" modeled waves and filters, due to their perfection, have no distinct character.
In any analogue synth (like juno, sh, jupiter) or digital synth (like d-50), the circuity is not ideal, not perfect - and this is what makes it shape the sounds and produce waves that have a character, that are original.
As the software can run on more and more powerful hardware, developers can create complex models that do not generate waves or filter sounds themselves, but they simulate the circuity of analogue/digital hardware.
Roland's VC-1 is the first software in my life that amazingly faithfully reproduces the character of a digital instrument, which makes it one the most remarkable andlong-awaited piece of software in many years. They did a fantastic job.
Artemio.
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venusbasstrap
- Posts: 15
- Joined: 12:09, 31 August 2004
- Location: uk
Re: V-synth vs Fantom... for the brave only...!
Thanks for this forum Artemio!
Totally agree with what you said. I'm surprised nobody has produced a synth analog output/DAC emulator by now. Simply patch this to the channel insert, dial up 'audio output type' (ie Roland, AKAI, etc) and away you go... added dirt!!
I think a good demonstration of this is NI FM7. The sounds don't have enough edge because they are far too clean! Take the classic 'lately bass' patch and listen on the real thing (DX7, tx81z etc) - notice how part of the sound is made up of squeaks and a breathing noise from the output circuit. That's what helps it cut through the mix.
As for harmonics and circuit distortion - I think that (as you say) it's just a case of waiting until computers are fast enough!
Glad I have the old hardware - hehe:)
Totally agree with what you said. I'm surprised nobody has produced a synth analog output/DAC emulator by now. Simply patch this to the channel insert, dial up 'audio output type' (ie Roland, AKAI, etc) and away you go... added dirt!!
I think a good demonstration of this is NI FM7. The sounds don't have enough edge because they are far too clean! Take the classic 'lately bass' patch and listen on the real thing (DX7, tx81z etc) - notice how part of the sound is made up of squeaks and a breathing noise from the output circuit. That's what helps it cut through the mix.
As for harmonics and circuit distortion - I think that (as you say) it's just a case of waiting until computers are fast enough!
Glad I have the old hardware - hehe:)