V-synth is Crap!! (roland dont care, it doesnt work and here

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TT Prince
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Joined: 21:22, 26 September 2004
Location: ireland

V-synth is Crap!! (roland dont care, it doesnt work and here

Post by TT Prince »

Still some Major issues to be resolved (the following bugs have been around since the v-synth was release and roland has not fixed them (how long will you wait??)

1) There is no option create a new! blank project (currently NEW PROJECT only duplicates the existing project)
Most real software would give you the following..

Save (save current file/project)
Save As (save current file/project under a new name)
New (create new blank file/project)
the v-synth does not allow either.

2) When you load a project from flash or micro drive it uses up all available memory leaving no room for further editing by loading all patches and samples directly in to all available RAM instead of only loading patch currently in use.

3) Internal partials cannot be selected from any internal list even though they exist in ROM, your forced to load them all in to the limited ram of the v-synth before you can select them from any list, once again using up all available RAM of the v-synth leaving no further room for editing.

4) when you choose to WRITE PATCH, if this patch has been created using a newly created wav, the v-synth does not save the wav automaticaly so if you switch off after saving patch, when you come to load that patch, it will not work because the wav is missing.

5) When using the Arp you should notice that it will only send midi during playback and not Record.
so if you want to use any external devices say and drum machine and want to use to arp to make rythmes you will not hear the drum machine notes while in record. (so you cannot hear what you are playing?? How stupid is that?!??)

6) when you switch from patch to patch you would expect each patch to re-initialize the v-synth to accommodate the next patch settings.
Logically, switching from patch 1 to patch 2 should initialize all controllers and settings to Zero and then read the current patch settings and apply these new commands to the vsynth.

The vsynth is NOT! re-initializing all ctr commands in this manner when switching from patch to patch.
The effect is a serious one, (explained in a momment)

It means if a patch has sent specific ctr commands that effect playback of its sound in the current patch,
these settings are not reset when you select another patch, which means your beautiful string ensembles, which you have just
switched to on patch 50 after coming from patch 20 now sound like random noise.

The following will recreat the bug mentioned...


The best way to demonstrate this BUG rather than recreate the patch that causes the problem is to do as follows...

find a nice patch, like strings or pads and play with it and remember how it sounds


open the arpegiator using this patch and choose step record
start playing a sequence until it is full

now set playback mode for this arppegiator to phrase

now select Real Record on the arpegiator.
assuming knob 1 (C1) has been assigned a cntr command, start moving it from left to right

you will notice these commands will be sent to the arpegiator window.

when your happy with what you hear choose stop

Using the up down cursor keys highlight the line where the CTRL command has been entered it usually has either 1 or 2 in the next row.

highlight the next colum so the cursor is over the value 1 or 2

now choose hold on the arpegiator and press a key on the keyboard.
the arpegiator starts playing and you see the play area move from left to right.

Now start moving the Scroll wheel to increase up and down the value in the Note/CC colum and notice how the sound changes
keep doing this for a few bars until the current sound probably does not make any sense or stops playing.

Exit the arpegiator (do not save or write the patch)

and try other patches

some if not all, will no longer sound correct or as they should

try going back to your original patch.

Logic dictates that unless you have saved a patch after editing, moving from patch 1 which you have edited to patch 2 and back to patch 1 you loose all previous edits and patch 1 is now as it originally was with no changes.

You will find that if you now go back to your original patch it too no longer sounds like strings.

This all goes to show the V-synth is not re-initializing correctly on patch selection

NOTE!:
The latest firmware attepts to fix the previous arp bug by reducing the v-synths functionality.
The latest firmware stops you from sending control messages withing the arp, as discribed in the original proceedure.
This simply masks the problem and does not resolve it.
this problem still exists and can be reproduced be sending the same control messages over midi.

I have informed roland of all these bugs since the v-synthe was reseased and they still refuse to agknowlage or fix them.

THE V-SYNTH IS A BETA PRODUCT!! DONT BUY IT.

Results Not Excuses
Watermelon
Posts: 138
Joined: 10:35, 16 August 2004

Re: V-synth is Crap!! (roland dont care, it doesnt work and

Post by Watermelon »

You are totally right, and as you I have been frustrated about the lack of some basic functionalities (like the Save/Save As/New project issue which is a big one to me) or missfuntions. I won't dare saying however that V-Synth is "crap" (it makes things than no competitor is able to achieve), "doesn't work" (mine works, for me at least ;-) and about the "Roland doesn't care" issue, I think we may be glad we got few interesting updates (new functions added) and continuous patch updates thought the web. Maybe Roland doesn't care "enough" ;-)

I do basically aggree with you, V-Synth looks as if it has been released in a rush, as some functionalities provided look really basic for a device with such a price tag (file management, multitimbrality).

Maybe Roland is reading this forum (as they do sometimes on the Fantomized info). Maybe Artemio can try to be our Ambassador towards Roland, and mention these issues to them???

In any way, I don't hink that using rough langage and over-exagerated words may help us in showing Roland that this place is the place for them to be regarding V-Synth. Let us build a frank but friendly forum in order to maximize our chances of success.

Peace
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Artemiy
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Re: V-synth is Crap!! (roland dont care, it doesnt work and

Post by Artemiy »

I agree with Watermelon. Bashing anyone (Roland in this case) is not something we can hope will help fix bugs and improve features - it never worked, and it never will. Instead, we should present these bugs in a clear technical manner.

I will try to do the best I can to get the info you (TT Prince) provided to Roland.

All I can add is that, yes, we in general don't need any free patches rather than minimal functionality needed for daily routine work - like project management (new CLEAN project is highly required), for instance.


Artemio.
Hugo
Posts: 490
Joined: 06:31, 31 May 2004
Location: Another world

Re: V-synth is Crap!! (roland dont care, it doesnt work and

Post by Hugo »

Hmm, interesting thread. I have not purchased the V-Synth yet, but will next year.
I'm guessing, if Roland release a V-Synth II, then these flaws will be ironed out. But they should be addressed anyway in an OS update for the original V-Synth.

btw: I noticed when trying the synth, that the polyphony dropped to 4 voices. This is not very cool. How well is resampling implemented? Is it possible to do loop crossfades?
Mr.XR
Posts: 70
Joined: 19:30, 14 August 2004
Location: germany

Re: V-synth is Crap!! (roland dont care, it doesnt work and

Post by Mr.XR »

How about creating an empty project in the V-Librarian and simply load that into the V-synth everytime one wants to start a project from scratch?
The Librarian even has a dedicated Clean Project function!

Another way to start the V-Synth in an empty stage is by holding down the EXIT button during powerup.
The V-Synth then starts in a couple of seconds and offers the complete RAM for usersamples and all patch locations are
empty.

About the missing wave when writing patches-you need to save the sample after encoding then it will be recognized by the V-Synth when you used it in a patch.

Not sure which firmware you are refering to.
I thought i have the latest version 1.51 of the OS and i can still record control changes in the arpeggiator.

I will try to recreate your suggested scenario later today.

best
Mr.XR











the difference between theory and practise is that in theory there is no difference
TT Prince
Posts: 7
Joined: 21:22, 26 September 2004
Location: ireland

Re: V-synth is Crap!! (roland dont care, it doesnt work and

Post by TT Prince »

"Instead, we should present these bugs in a clear technical manner"

I think the format they are layed out here is clear and technical, and i did present these bugs as soon as the v-synth was released (how long ago is that now?)

and as mentioned about the arp bug,
the bug is that patches dont initialise correctly
rolands solution was to mask to the problem and not fix it.
(oh lets sweep this problem under the carpet)

i think most people would agree that when you pay the high price for what is supposed to be a professional piece of kit, you should expect performance and functionality and not for it to hinder the artist.

i find the v-synth fustrates me every time i come to be creative because of the listed bugs and its not very efficient

"Another way to start the V-Synth in an empty stage is by holding down the EXIT button during powerup.
The V-Synth then starts in a couple of seconds and offers the complete RAM for usersamples and all patch locations are
empty."

Okay thats a work around not a solution, now you have full emty ram and you want to create a new patch where are your patials??
you cannot select them from any list, so now you have to load them all in instead of being able to create your sound in real time calling only the partial in use from an internal list from rom to ram.
the only solution to have them all available is to load them all into ram, Now you have just used up valuable ram just to be be able to select a partial from a list

"About the missing wave when writing patches-you need to save the sample after encoding then it will be recognized by the V-Synth when you used it in a patch."


thats true however what i am saying is you choose "WRITE PATCH" WRITE--- PATCH
This mean write and should mean stor the patch which includes all settings and any partials or wavs.
Just because roland forced you to sepratly save everysamle manual does not mean this is efficient or what you should accept. (its bloody stupid!) what are computers for!?
they are suppose to automate what would other wise have to be done manualy..

Why!? should i be forced to Manualy have to save every wave i use for creating sounds?

efficiently the v-synth shoud save all!! associated resources when you choose write and not rely on the user to do what should! be an automatic automatic process.
"
Rule of thum..

if a wav is being used in a patch that has been save using write, the v synth should have saved the wav as part of the patch write process.

if the any new wavs in ram are not being used by any patch and has not already been saved, it should be lost when power off.

Not sure which firmware you are refering to. "
earlier than 1.51

"How about creating an empty project in the V-Librarian and simply load that into the V-synth everytime one wants to start a project from scratch? "

you should not have to use external software to compensate for the lack of functionality that should be already part of the original OS of the V-synth.

"if Roland release a V-Synth II"
WHAT!!???
You would buy a revision II of something that shows how inefficiant roland are at programming and supporting there products???
Gawd!! if they dont bother to fix the original why should you buy rev 2???
or even ecourage them to release rev2 before fixing rev1?
what are we??? people that should accept beta products after handing over our hard erned cash and then simple say.. "oh well time to buy the mark II??"

Results Not Excuses
Hugo
Posts: 490
Joined: 06:31, 31 May 2004
Location: Another world

Re: V-synth is Crap!! (roland dont care, it doesnt work and

Post by Hugo »

""if Roland release a V-Synth II"
WHAT!!???
You would buy a revision II of something that shows how inefficiant roland are at programming and supporting there products???
Gawd!! if they dont bother to fix the original why should you buy rev 2???
or even ecourage them to release rev2 before fixing rev1?
what are we??? people that should accept beta products after handing over our hard erned cash and then simple say.. "oh well time to buy the mark II??" "

Yes, I agree. They should definately fix these bugs in an OS update.
Having said that, I would still like to see a V-Synth II, primarily with more polyphony as 4 voices (in practice) isn't a whole lot.
DodgingRain
Posts: 81
Joined: 22:00, 2 September 2004

Re: V-synth is Crap!! (roland dont care, it doesnt work and

Post by DodgingRain »

I don't think some of these are bugs, some are just making the user take a few extra steps such as saving your waveforms seperate from the patch or having to load waveforms into memory in order to use them.

These are issues that have been on pro-level synths going back to the wavestation and earlier and essentially represent the "standard" methods for doing things. On a wavestation it's quite easy to screw up patches by simply changing cards. And the wavestation is argueably one of the few digital synths to be commonly refered to as a classic.

One has to think of the v-synth as a rompler with user-loadable rom waveforms. All a patch does is reference a waveform #. Instead of thinking of this as a defect it can be quite useful for experimentation since you can easily change the waveforms behind a patch without having to rewrite the patch itself.

No blank project is a real issue that however is very easy to work around.

Have not played with the arp yet to determine if those are real issues or not.
TT Prince
Posts: 7
Joined: 21:22, 26 September 2004
Location: ireland

Re: V-synth is Crap!! (roland dont care, it doesnt work and

Post by TT Prince »

"some are just making the user take a few extra steps "

The operative word here is MAKING!!
hello!!!!!
where living in the 21st centry NOT!! 18th
Just because we have always been poluting the planet for years doesnt mean its right or thats the way it should be..

Read my sig it reads
RESULTS NOT EXCUSES!!!

im sick of excuses so stop making them
RESULTS!

its a weak argument to say "well we`ve been doing it this way for years so why should we change???"
Answer: to make it better!!

remember
RESULTS NOT EXCUSES
Mr.XR
Posts: 70
Joined: 19:30, 14 August 2004
Location: germany

Re: V-synth is Crap!! (roland dont care, it doesnt work and

Post by Mr.XR »

not sure what partials you are refering to.
And whats that list of partials that you want to see?
Am i missing a feature here?
Please enlighten me!

About the empty project
Every synth only has a limited amount of storage space. You either have the presets loaded into that space or not.
The fact that the V-Synth is one of the few (maybe the only one) out there that allows you to start with a complete empty memory is definetly a feature especially for those who are interested to fill it up completely with sounds of their own.

I cant imagine using the V-Synth without my computer. Its a natural extension.
USB works great and i use my computer as a gigantic storage media for the V-Synth.
Having the librarian is a cool addition.
Good luck trying to assemble a favourite bank out of 500 patches using any hardware alone.

Mr.XR

the difference between theory and practise is that in theory there is no difference
TT Prince
Posts: 7
Joined: 21:22, 26 September 2004
Location: ireland

Re: V-synth is Crap!! (roland dont care, it doesnt work and

Post by TT Prince »

"not sure what partials you are refering to. "
if you go into edit your patch as it s called
you choose analogu or wav

roland supplys you with partials or wavs as you my call them.
they are stored in ROM

if you start with a blank v-synth you cannot access the list unless you import!!! from another part of the vsynth.
so you cannot convieniently go into the sound your editing and scroll trough all partials while editing without!!! loading the entire ROM directly in to ram.
You should not have to load what already exists in ROM!!! in to ram, this is Duplication!! and lazy programming.

telling me that you can see yourself using the v-synth with out your pc, tells me you accept the weakness of the v-synth and also accept that to do what should be accessable directly part of the v-synth architecture externaly!? is undermining the whole idea of a stand alone synth.
and even if we where to accept the marrige between v-synth and computer, you cant do any thing trasparatly between the computer and the v synth, you have to keep changing modes
either storage or usb??
hell this should be transparant
i could do a better job and since i could this means roland and programmers are lazy.
any who makes excuses for them is letting them off the hook and does not understand what quality means.

RESULTS NOT EXCUSES
Mr.XR
Posts: 70
Joined: 19:30, 14 August 2004
Location: germany

Re: V-synth is Crap!! (roland dont care, it doesnt work and

Post by Mr.XR »

ohh-you are talking about the preset waveforms. Now i got you.

Why dont you start with an empty V-Synth and then import any waveform from the rom into the ram by using the import function.
(Mode/sample/import/wave/open)
Its really easy to do and that way you dont waste any valuable ram.

Maybe you want to reconsider your attitude towards the people at this forum. We are not here to make excuses for Roland.
We are just enjoying the V-Synth and try to help others that might have some questions about it.
But maybe you werent looking for answers but just wanted to let out your frustration.
Hope at least you feel better now

;-)

Mr.XR



the difference between theory and practise is that in theory there is no difference
Mr.XR
Posts: 70
Joined: 19:30, 14 August 2004
Location: germany

Re: V-synth is Crap!! (roland dont care, it doesnt work and

Post by Mr.XR »

one more thing
Waveforms need to be in ram in order to play them back with the variphrase engine.

Therefore you need to transfer them from rom to ram. one wave at a time or all together depends on the way you like to work.

Mr.XR



the difference between theory and practise is that in theory there is no difference
TT Prince
Posts: 7
Joined: 21:22, 26 September 2004
Location: ireland

Re: V-synth is Crap!! (roland dont care, it doesnt work and

Post by TT Prince »

"Why dont you start with an empty V-Synth and then import any waveform from the rom into the ram by using the import function."

you stil dont get it do you??

when you come to creat a uniques sound you only know by trial and error how a sound is going to develope.

to say OH!! its real easy to inport an internal wave
its NOT!!
how the hell can you decide in real time how or which internal wav is going to sound when you add it to your current sound filter env settings??? before inporting it???
You dont!!
so your saying its okay that i must inport a sound
start playing with my filters
then decide to try another wav
inport that
that doesnt work or sound good with these setting..
inport another one
that doesnt work or sound good with these setting..
inport another one
that doesnt work or sound good with these setting..
inport another one
that doesnt work or sound good with these setting..
inport another one
that doesnt work or sound good with these setting..
inport another one
that doesnt work or sound good with these setting..
inport another one
that doesnt work or sound good with these setting..
inport another one

does this not sound repetative in the exreeem!!! to you???
and dont say
Oh sure you can just inport the intire library in one go so you dont have to be repeatative..
Hell!!!
has`nt my point been that i should not!!! have to import what already exists in rom and use up limited RAM on the v-synth
just so you can select from a list!?????

This is STUPID!!
S.T.U.P.I.D!!!






RESULTS NOT EXCUSES
Mr.XR
Posts: 70
Joined: 19:30, 14 August 2004
Location: germany

Re: V-synth is Crap!! (roland dont care, it doesnt work and

Post by Mr.XR »

you really should take your medicine and calm down a bit.
it seems that you dont understand the technology behind the v-synth.
as i wrote in my last email the v-synth needs to have the waves in ram in order to play them back with variphrase features.
and of course its easier to have them all in ram while making sounds-whats your bloody problem?
it still leaves you with free ram for your own waves, doesnt it.

but since you havent got any communication skills i will simply put you on my ignore list.
have a nice life
"plonk"

the difference between theory and practise is that in theory there is no difference
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