Hello!
It is well known that since the version 2 of the firmware for the Roland V-Synth, there is basically a Roland JP8080 engine inside with lots of improvements and the possibilities of using all the other functions V-Synth provides us with. Both Roland JP8000 and it's a bit better rack version became classics not only in trance and eurodance music, but also in rock and ambient music. I was always wondering about these little tricks people would use when composing with the help of Roland JP8000/8080. There was always something very special about it. I could pick most of the sounds I was after with the help of V-Synth XT by re-creating them from scratch, from the very beginning. It's truly a machine of endless possibilities and I couldn't be more happy.
And here is my question: I came upon the tutorial DVD for the Roland JP8000/JP8080 synthesizer. It made me think if that would be of any use for the Roland V-Synth in terms of learning something new? Here is the link that describes this particular DVD.
http://www.amazon.com/Roland-JP-8000-JP ... B000BS4SEK
I am wondering if that would be possible to repeat all the steps with the V-Synth about re-creation of the sounds, but just in a different workflow, yet the same engine. I mean, just to learn and see what each function does when combined with the supersaw, certain filters and osc... Just thought I would ask! :)
And I also wanted to ask if anyone tried to re-create the sounds of JP8000 or had a try to create a set of these 90's eurodance and early trance sounds like Jam & Spoon, Pharao, Imperio and so on.
Thank you and God bless!
-- Denis
V-Synth and Roland JP8000/8080 DVD tutorial
Re: V-Synth and Roland JP8000/8080 DVD tutorial
Hey Iceman,
Sadly I sold both my JP 8000 and V-synth because I moved into a smaller place and needed to decide which gear I was getting the most out of. But I did own both at one time together.
I found it fairly easy to recreate the JP 8000 sounds, but for me it took some extra patience because on the JP it was all hands on in front of me, while the V-synth was mostly menu diving.
The other part that always annoyed me a little (only when recreating the JP patches) was that you have to go through and select the filters and whatnot in a menu. Easy of course, but the extra 5 seconds it took discouraged me from doing it often.
The sounds can all be recreated no problem.
I miss both synths... I'll probably end up getting a V-synth Xt when I have money saved up for it as that won't take up as much space!
Sadly I sold both my JP 8000 and V-synth because I moved into a smaller place and needed to decide which gear I was getting the most out of. But I did own both at one time together.
I found it fairly easy to recreate the JP 8000 sounds, but for me it took some extra patience because on the JP it was all hands on in front of me, while the V-synth was mostly menu diving.
The other part that always annoyed me a little (only when recreating the JP patches) was that you have to go through and select the filters and whatnot in a menu. Easy of course, but the extra 5 seconds it took discouraged me from doing it often.
The sounds can all be recreated no problem.
I miss both synths... I'll probably end up getting a V-synth Xt when I have money saved up for it as that won't take up as much space!
Re: V-Synth and Roland JP8000/8080 DVD tutorial
And much more flexible to create new sounds, from scratch or from other sampled soundsstealth gear wrote:...In short the V-synth is much more complex than the JP.
Hi iceman777,
I hope you're well :-)
-
SoundworldA.D.
- Posts: 744
- Joined: 22:09, 30 April 2009
- Location: Dallas, TX
- Contact:
Re: V-Synth and Roland JP8000/8080 DVD tutorial
Greetings Ice,
The one review on Amazon said the DVD was rather basic and $35 may be a bit much to pay for some rather limited info. On the other hand, for those who have not done much editing or sound design, the bit about OSC, filter, LFO and Amp sections and their associated envelopes could be useful IF there is a good deal of info there and it explains them in depth instead of just giving a brief overview.
There is no doubt that the Super Saw is my favourite analog waveform when creating new sounds, but there is just so much more there. Mixing a PCM wave with an analog is a real gas. Especially when you start modulating the 2 OSC's and routing them through the COSM filters in different ways. Add in the excellent MFX at the end with some deft routing through the CHORUS and REVERB units and you have a sonic powerhouse at your disposal.
I prefer just to get in there and start changing parameters to hear what happens. I have had no training on sound design and learned a lot by just tinkering away. I love the way the envelopes are overlaid so you can see how the ADSR's for the filters and amps etc. are interacting with each other. Another one of my favourite tweaks is to put long attack delays on the LFO's with different waveforms to get a lot of motion going on.
I used my custom V-Synth patch "Bayaka Spirit" on my latest tune called "The Molimo" and somehow wound up getting these unique voice sounds from a kalimba and another non-voice wave. The V-Synth is like that...if you start changing parameters around you just never know what you are going to wind up with!
http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=12839028
Whatever you decide, hopefully you will end up getting the sounds you were after and a lot more!
The one review on Amazon said the DVD was rather basic and $35 may be a bit much to pay for some rather limited info. On the other hand, for those who have not done much editing or sound design, the bit about OSC, filter, LFO and Amp sections and their associated envelopes could be useful IF there is a good deal of info there and it explains them in depth instead of just giving a brief overview.
There is no doubt that the Super Saw is my favourite analog waveform when creating new sounds, but there is just so much more there. Mixing a PCM wave with an analog is a real gas. Especially when you start modulating the 2 OSC's and routing them through the COSM filters in different ways. Add in the excellent MFX at the end with some deft routing through the CHORUS and REVERB units and you have a sonic powerhouse at your disposal.
I prefer just to get in there and start changing parameters to hear what happens. I have had no training on sound design and learned a lot by just tinkering away. I love the way the envelopes are overlaid so you can see how the ADSR's for the filters and amps etc. are interacting with each other. Another one of my favourite tweaks is to put long attack delays on the LFO's with different waveforms to get a lot of motion going on.
I used my custom V-Synth patch "Bayaka Spirit" on my latest tune called "The Molimo" and somehow wound up getting these unique voice sounds from a kalimba and another non-voice wave. The V-Synth is like that...if you start changing parameters around you just never know what you are going to wind up with!
http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=12839028
Whatever you decide, hopefully you will end up getting the sounds you were after and a lot more!
Re: V-Synth and Roland JP8000/8080 DVD tutorial
Thank you so much for all the replies and for sharing your thoughts and experiences with me! Messages like that are the best lessons and guides through the maze of decisions and the amazing world of synthesis. Since I brought this topic up for discussion, I was able to dive deep into composing and actually picked most of what I wanted to achieve purely by ear and from scratch. One of the main reasons why I got V-Synth XT was the possibility to edit everything, write from scratch and create the sounds that did not exist before. Another reason was the presence of Roland D50 with all the priceless expansions and sound libraries. Finally, the next reason was the new possibilities which were added with the 2.0 update - the enhanced version of the popular Super Saw waveform and Feedback Oscillator from the classic JP-8000 synthesizer. Plus to that, an all-new X-Mod (cross modulation) Oscillator that can create some very aggressive or distorted sounds of metallic nature. I asked myself the question: who could re-create the Super Saw and the rest from JP-8000 better than Roland? Of course, the people behind it and the ones that came up with the idea in the first place. I wasn't mistaken when I have heard the sound for the first time. Knowing the sounds from JP-8000 by heart since the childhood times, I always wanted to add a little bit more to the tonal pallete. V-Synth XT helps in this regard, as well as in all of the craziest idea I could come up with. As a guitar player, I could use the module along with my guitar and results were more than words can express. I could finally feel the freedom to re-create both lo-fi and post rock sounds I had in mind, I could make all the real-time editing to see how the sound changes. It was all within the reach of my hand and I can't find the words enough to express how happy I feel with this particular sound module. A legend in it's own kind and probably the best example of what synthesis should be!
Now the next thing that should be present is experience and know-how-to-tweak abilities. V-Synth allows us all to go back to the roots and start this tweaking from scratch, yet giving us all the stepping stones to avoid the long process where it is not necessary. One of the reasons why I brought up the JP8000/8080 DVD tutorial was my trying to hear more about the tricks and little things that people used when they were playing the instrument back then. Stealthgear mentioned that "If you want the JP-8000 sounds only, you want the JP-8000". Good point in that, but V-Synth lets us have the best of both worlds. What I was talking about was not as much the preset sounds of JP8000, but the tricks that made it sound good. We all know that if a professional musician picks up a toy piano, we might hear something that will make us sit in awe. Then we know the cases when people buy expensive gear just to say that they do not sound good when the reason for the "bad sound" is usually the person's inability or laziness to spend some time with the instrument. Stealthgear, as well as all of you, made lots of very good points and I understand all of that, but my point was something like playing the Mellotron when you have to play it in a special way to get the best out of it, know the sound engine, remember that it is a tape machine and knowing how to tweak this and that in order to make it sound good and right. :)
I shall write the replies to all of you personally below:
@Macska, thank you for your message and for your continuous support! I am sorry to hear that you had to sell both your JP8000 and V-Synth. I shall hope and pray that a good opportunity comes your way and you will be able to get V-Synth XT since it will be able to give you both in some way. The fact that it can be placed on top of the desk or in a rack space adds so much more to it! I often smile when I think of the space it takes and of the wealth it gives.
Yes, I agree that the hands-on interface of JP8000 was probably one of the reasons so many people found it pleasant to work with. V-Synth does have menu diving to it, but the large touch screen (in the XT case, at least) makes it quicker once you get used to it. Of course, there is still some jumping through the windows, but it also gives you more chances to get what you want. I often start with the sound creation and the last minute I can change my mind and roll back the changes or try something which would not be possible in the physical realm. It makes me wonder if I can use all of the knobs of my Nord Lead 2X in a helpful way while I am using V-Synth XT... Thanks again for your message!
@stealthgear, thank you for your thoughts and for always speaking your heart out! Am I mistaken or are you Sammy? The person behind the amazing demos and sound sets for V-Synth. If my memory serves me well, I always visited a web site called The Chip Collection and it was one of the reasons why I fell in love with V-Synth and my source for the sound design and synthesis tips and lessons. I owe a big "thank you" to you. :) Each time I was visiting this resource, I always felt the inspiration and learnt important things that helped me save time and reach the aims. For example, the V-Synth Analog Tricks section. If you take a look, you will understand what I was trying to reach with my original post - the source of information as to how to get the best out of JP8000 inside the V-Synth, so to say. Sharing experience is what makes each of our instruments shine.
Speaking of the trance sounds and eurodance, I had the luck of getting most of the sounds I was after. I was not really after presets, maybe only using them as the guides for the sound, but tried to come closer to the sounds of the records that were made in 90s, some of them mostly unknown. As a kid, I grew up with the trackers scene, probably almost the first software like Scream Tracker and Fast Tracker. It was all based on samples and getting your notes together. I was able to find out that a lot of samples originated from JP8000 and Supernova synthesizers. Even in sampled form, there was something special about the sound. Sometimes only a little tweak of a knob or some parameter gets you there. Or maybe there is a little combination that changes the sound just a little bit, but makes it exactly what you wanted. Since I got V-Synth XT, I am always learning something new, each time I turn it on. A good teacher for me is my Nord Lead 2X synthesizer which has all the knobs in front of you and which was my playing ground for tweaking and learning. As for the eurodance again, I recently became a happy owner of Roland JV1010 with two expansion cards (World and Experience II). The addition of this little module pretty much allowed me to cover all the possible genres out there. It allows editing as well and pairing it together with V-Synth makes me feel like sitting at the top of the mountain. :)
The video tape... I was only wondering if that contains anything useful and if that would be of help in learning of how music was created back in 90s with the help of JP8000's abilities. :) Thank you again!!!
@Paulo, my man! Yes, the flexibility of V-Synth is endless. You know, since I tried to take one track from it, then one track from Roland JV1010 (my version of Integra hehehe), it nearly made me cry from happiness. I could use what I grew up with and give it a huge modern twist with the V-Synth. As for the sampled sounds, I shall get back to you with a message about it. :)
I am more or less safe, but situation in the country changes every hour and not for the better, sadly. Thank you for your question! I hope that you are safe, my friend, and that you feel better!
@Soundworld A.D., thank you from the bottom of my being for your amazing message, good tips and tricks, for the synthesis lesson and fantastic track!!! It has a soundtrack feel to it and carries the listener through the tribal experience. It is beyond words how you could portray the spirit of Central Africa. I grew up listening to lots of tribal music from the actual African musicians and you could sum it up and give the same fantastic vibe. Your excellent track is the best of the best examples of what V-Synth can do!
Thank you for taking the time to check out the Amazon link for the DVD! I really appreciate that, my friend! Yes, $35 sounds a bit expensive and might be more suitable for the actual owners of JP8000/8080. Probably there is always something to learn in each tutorial, but hard to say if the person tries to give the basic information or share the expert knowledge in simple terms. Anyway, thank you so much for taking time to research this particular offering!
And thank you for sharing knowledge from your experience. This is EXACTLY what I was trying to find! I also like the Super Saw waveform and at times it comes out very unusual and far not what it was meant to be at the beginning. I'll try to follow your tips the next time I sit down to compose something. I am also like that and as I was making my first steps with V-Synth, I was just changing parameters and tweaking all the knobs to hear what happens when I do this and that. I had no training on sound design as well. I believe that what comes from the heart and from God is the best sound design!
The motion that V-Synth allows is probably the best thing out there. Your track is a great example of it! Your custom V-Synth patch "Bayaka Spirit" sounds awesome! It's great how you could transform the sounds into a vivid experience and a journey! Thank you so much for sharing!
Thank you again, guys, for making this place the best out there! Stay safe and God bless you all!
-- Denis / Iceman777
Now the next thing that should be present is experience and know-how-to-tweak abilities. V-Synth allows us all to go back to the roots and start this tweaking from scratch, yet giving us all the stepping stones to avoid the long process where it is not necessary. One of the reasons why I brought up the JP8000/8080 DVD tutorial was my trying to hear more about the tricks and little things that people used when they were playing the instrument back then. Stealthgear mentioned that "If you want the JP-8000 sounds only, you want the JP-8000". Good point in that, but V-Synth lets us have the best of both worlds. What I was talking about was not as much the preset sounds of JP8000, but the tricks that made it sound good. We all know that if a professional musician picks up a toy piano, we might hear something that will make us sit in awe. Then we know the cases when people buy expensive gear just to say that they do not sound good when the reason for the "bad sound" is usually the person's inability or laziness to spend some time with the instrument. Stealthgear, as well as all of you, made lots of very good points and I understand all of that, but my point was something like playing the Mellotron when you have to play it in a special way to get the best out of it, know the sound engine, remember that it is a tape machine and knowing how to tweak this and that in order to make it sound good and right. :)
I shall write the replies to all of you personally below:
@Macska, thank you for your message and for your continuous support! I am sorry to hear that you had to sell both your JP8000 and V-Synth. I shall hope and pray that a good opportunity comes your way and you will be able to get V-Synth XT since it will be able to give you both in some way. The fact that it can be placed on top of the desk or in a rack space adds so much more to it! I often smile when I think of the space it takes and of the wealth it gives.
Yes, I agree that the hands-on interface of JP8000 was probably one of the reasons so many people found it pleasant to work with. V-Synth does have menu diving to it, but the large touch screen (in the XT case, at least) makes it quicker once you get used to it. Of course, there is still some jumping through the windows, but it also gives you more chances to get what you want. I often start with the sound creation and the last minute I can change my mind and roll back the changes or try something which would not be possible in the physical realm. It makes me wonder if I can use all of the knobs of my Nord Lead 2X in a helpful way while I am using V-Synth XT... Thanks again for your message!
@stealthgear, thank you for your thoughts and for always speaking your heart out! Am I mistaken or are you Sammy? The person behind the amazing demos and sound sets for V-Synth. If my memory serves me well, I always visited a web site called The Chip Collection and it was one of the reasons why I fell in love with V-Synth and my source for the sound design and synthesis tips and lessons. I owe a big "thank you" to you. :) Each time I was visiting this resource, I always felt the inspiration and learnt important things that helped me save time and reach the aims. For example, the V-Synth Analog Tricks section. If you take a look, you will understand what I was trying to reach with my original post - the source of information as to how to get the best out of JP8000 inside the V-Synth, so to say. Sharing experience is what makes each of our instruments shine.
Speaking of the trance sounds and eurodance, I had the luck of getting most of the sounds I was after. I was not really after presets, maybe only using them as the guides for the sound, but tried to come closer to the sounds of the records that were made in 90s, some of them mostly unknown. As a kid, I grew up with the trackers scene, probably almost the first software like Scream Tracker and Fast Tracker. It was all based on samples and getting your notes together. I was able to find out that a lot of samples originated from JP8000 and Supernova synthesizers. Even in sampled form, there was something special about the sound. Sometimes only a little tweak of a knob or some parameter gets you there. Or maybe there is a little combination that changes the sound just a little bit, but makes it exactly what you wanted. Since I got V-Synth XT, I am always learning something new, each time I turn it on. A good teacher for me is my Nord Lead 2X synthesizer which has all the knobs in front of you and which was my playing ground for tweaking and learning. As for the eurodance again, I recently became a happy owner of Roland JV1010 with two expansion cards (World and Experience II). The addition of this little module pretty much allowed me to cover all the possible genres out there. It allows editing as well and pairing it together with V-Synth makes me feel like sitting at the top of the mountain. :)
The video tape... I was only wondering if that contains anything useful and if that would be of help in learning of how music was created back in 90s with the help of JP8000's abilities. :) Thank you again!!!
@Paulo, my man! Yes, the flexibility of V-Synth is endless. You know, since I tried to take one track from it, then one track from Roland JV1010 (my version of Integra hehehe), it nearly made me cry from happiness. I could use what I grew up with and give it a huge modern twist with the V-Synth. As for the sampled sounds, I shall get back to you with a message about it. :)
I am more or less safe, but situation in the country changes every hour and not for the better, sadly. Thank you for your question! I hope that you are safe, my friend, and that you feel better!
@Soundworld A.D., thank you from the bottom of my being for your amazing message, good tips and tricks, for the synthesis lesson and fantastic track!!! It has a soundtrack feel to it and carries the listener through the tribal experience. It is beyond words how you could portray the spirit of Central Africa. I grew up listening to lots of tribal music from the actual African musicians and you could sum it up and give the same fantastic vibe. Your excellent track is the best of the best examples of what V-Synth can do!
Thank you for taking the time to check out the Amazon link for the DVD! I really appreciate that, my friend! Yes, $35 sounds a bit expensive and might be more suitable for the actual owners of JP8000/8080. Probably there is always something to learn in each tutorial, but hard to say if the person tries to give the basic information or share the expert knowledge in simple terms. Anyway, thank you so much for taking time to research this particular offering!
And thank you for sharing knowledge from your experience. This is EXACTLY what I was trying to find! I also like the Super Saw waveform and at times it comes out very unusual and far not what it was meant to be at the beginning. I'll try to follow your tips the next time I sit down to compose something. I am also like that and as I was making my first steps with V-Synth, I was just changing parameters and tweaking all the knobs to hear what happens when I do this and that. I had no training on sound design as well. I believe that what comes from the heart and from God is the best sound design!
The motion that V-Synth allows is probably the best thing out there. Your track is a great example of it! Your custom V-Synth patch "Bayaka Spirit" sounds awesome! It's great how you could transform the sounds into a vivid experience and a journey! Thank you so much for sharing!
Thank you again, guys, for making this place the best out there! Stay safe and God bless you all!
-- Denis / Iceman777