808 and 909 JOINT BUG REPORT: notes and fx CUT across patter

[TOTAL]

panicmerchant wrote:
"he has visited (and will therefore be aware of the issues) and has already taken the process to the next stage my feeling is that we let him continue without intermittanly adding other bit's and pieces in order that the established areas of concern are not diluted. What do you think? "


I'm in two minds.
On the one hand I feel this sustain bug is a top priority and it's worth more to get just this fixed than to risk losing all.
On the other hand, we can't exclude that once R decides to hotfix the machine, a certain budget will be devoted to this and extra fixes could be included without undermining the top position of sustain bug.

It would be ideal if we got to know about concrete decision being made about the no. 1 issue. Then we might send complete buglist/wishlist without the risk of losing it all.

Now, how to make R let us know about progress of this matter? I think we might try inquiring the reps every two-three weeks. Hopefully they care to answer.

[panicmerchant]

I will wait for more forum discussion then will re-contact and ask Oliver what he thinks the best approach to take is. Drumfix I think he is aware already of same problem in 909 but I will make sure. How do you 'hide' the echo in the reverb?

[TOTAL]

when reverb is set to reverb set the other type to delay or pandelay.


you need PC editor for that

downside:
no sync of these delays

[panicmerchant]

Hi folks. Here is the response sent to Oliver from Japan. Our related person told me that this was the specification of the MC.

However, they will refer to this information for developing a future new product.



If PTN is changed, the sound which was sounding before that will be muffled.



Even if it uses MFX of a Delay system for MFX1 or MFX2, it will become so. However, if REV_SEND_LEVEL of Part is going up, "REVERB" will not be muffled by PTN change, will inherit a setup of former REVERB, and will continue sounding.

This is because MC has started by the following concepts and is continuing it even now.

- It is specializing in the style in which change PTN and music is played.

- MFX is premised on the tone making-use in PTN.

When making sound is greatly made by MFX, it is necessary to change sound including MFX by changing PTN.

On the contrary, when carrying out the chain of the PTN and performing it about REVERB used as a space effect of a musical piece total, it is the specification of inheriting a setup of REVERB of front PTN.

What do you think? Tell me SOON

[TOTAL]

I haven't been replied ever since by this ^#%^$ from Roland East Europe (just dropped him a relevant line).


panicmerchant, you might be the only one to be given the answer (NB. in an absolutely informal way).





"However, if REV_SEND_LEVEL of Part is going up, "REVERB" will not be muffled by PTN change, will inherit a setup of former REVERB, and will continue sounding."

Why so?




"It is specializing in the style in which change PTN and music is played"

English words, alien message.

Let me try to paraphraze:

"808 is dedicated for a genre where ..." - no I really can't make it.




"MFX is premised on the tone making-use in PTN"

Paraphrazed:

"fx are based on tones (and pattern change changes tone) "
Something wrong here. See above: Instant pattern change


"tone making-use in PTN"
What's this dash do here? Obscures the sense?


Native Speakers - is this explanation written in correct, understandable English?


I truly do not understand the meaning of most the arguments (can only guess), except that the concept of the recent MC devices demands such behaviour. Which is NOT TRUE - Instant pattern change reveals the fact that 808 is capable of not cutting fx - but who do we address the response to.


No compromise is offered and this hurts. A simple OPTION would do the trick.



It appears that we've lost.

[TOTAL]

___________________________________________

how to prove 808 mfx is not tone dependant:

activate PATCH REMAIN in SYSTEM mode
Set a part to MFX1
set MFX1 to delay and make it long
select patch mode so that patch can be changed
Press and hold a pad
use Jog Dial to select another patch
[the note keeps being played, delay continues]
without releasing the pad press and hold another pad
[you should hear both patches playing and being processed by the deley MFX]


____________________________________________

[dv1394]

TOTAL:
"Native Speakers - is this explanation written in correct, understandable English?

I truly do not understand the meaning of most the arguments (can only guess)"

Agree 100%. Not a native speaker though ...

[dv1394]

PanicMerchant, could you, please, do us a favor and send the text below to the guy who needs to be "told SOON"

this is an updated all-in-one compilation of all misbehaviors noticed on 808 so far, with a complete description of how to reproduce the bug/misb. thanks.

8mc.rhy[vs.control.partId].tone[vs.control.rhythmTone].toneReverbSendLevelMFX


must read

mc.rhy[vs.control.partId].tone[vs.control.rhythmTone].toneReverbSendLevelNonMFX

Wrong parameter address is used otherwise

-----[BUG # 06]-------------------------------------------------------
EDITOR v1.01 RHYTHM PART EDITING BUG

The rhythm editor does not use note channel information for choosing which rhythm key to edit.

This results in a situation when the current rhythm key in a rhythm set is being selected by any incoming note-on messages either by playing a sequence on MC-808 or pressing pads not belonging to the rhythm part being edited.

Thus editing of rhythm sets is impossible while the pattern is playing if some of the parts are set to Seq Output other than INT, because the MIDI output of those parts will make editor to select rhythm keys regardless of the user intention.

CONCLUSION

The rhythm editor must distinguish between note message channel numbers.
Selection of the rhythm key by note-on messages must be possible only if the channel of the part being edited corresponds to the channel of the incoming message.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
END OF DOCUMENT
=============================================

[TOTAL]

Guys, my I suggest that we include my description HOW TO PROVE 808 MFX IS NOT TONE DEPENDANT (above) in this report.

It actually responds to their statement.

[TOTAL]

Instant pattern change during playback should be quantized !!!


1. to 1/16 - this would be the absolute minimum for us to get what we want

2. additionally to 1/8, 1/4, 1/2, 1/1 - if R have a really good week


What do you think?


PS. maybe the best option if just one would be quantize to
1/4.


F$#@, something tells me we won't get anything.

[panicmerchant]

I have just mailed all responses to Oliver since reporting response. Though I missed your last one TOTAL by a few seconds. I must agree I don't get the feeling that Roland Are going to be issuing any product recalls followed by an apology and then compensation for our mental anguish then an offer of a highly paid job as a groovebox cosultant.

It's a good Idea TOTAL I think the old grandad RS7000 changes patterns in this way. I think 1/1 would be nearer the mark.

[TOTAL]

Still waiting for the answer from my rep. I think the best order for the events would be this:

1. rep answers
2. I send the riposte - just this compromise stuff


Hopefully they answer. I give 'em two weeks.


What pisswes me off is that some Oliver answers informally to one of the users and that's all we seem to get. Do they consider my, or your bug report replied ?!

[panicmerchant]

Steady TOTAL Oliver is a technician, is on our side and is sympathetic to the cause. What is your expectation of an official reply? I think we should be looking for answers by phone. Be persistant and get the answers we need. We need all forum members to take part. They need to understand that we are proactive in terms of communication. Which of course might include e.g doing what we can to provide web based reviews (in whatever guise) etc in order that the groovebox buying public are fully aware of any shortcomings when considering their options. Let's all be fair.

[TOTAL]

Okay, I cool down.

[djayhooker]

I'm not really getting this as I don't have an mc808.

Do you still get fx stops etc when changing to patterns with the same effects in the same banks etc.

I may have you wrong, but you can't go changing patterns and expect the fx processors to keep up. I have never seen this anyway.

I have an electribe mx which works seamless in this respect as long as you keep the fx the same.

I.e If you have a short delay in pattern 1 in fx processor 1, and you switch to pattern to 2 which has another fx in processor 1, the delay will be cut for the new fx.

You can string patterns for songs like the roland as long as you keep the fx in mind. You can even adjust the effects parameters over the whole song not just for individual patterns...is this how the mc808 works ?

I pritty sure I'm not understanding you, but it is inherent that if you are going to switch between fx in the same location on any sequencer, revebs and delays etc will be cut, unless they are on an aux channel I guess.

Bang da box!