808 and 909 JOINT BUG REPORT: notes and fx CUT across patter

Forum for MC-808
dv1394
Posts: 153
Joined: 06:40, 24 May 2007
Location: Tomsk, Russia

Re: 808 and 909 JOINT BUG REPORT: notes and fx CUT across pa

Post by dv1394 »

// What is meant by
"if you make the first patch in a pattern the one that you'll be playing live" ? //

i'm really interested too.
John Carpenter
Posts: 9
Joined: 03:50, 1 March 2007

Re: 808 and 909 JOINT BUG REPORT: notes and fx CUT across pa

Post by John Carpenter »

// What is meant by
"if you make the first patch in a pattern the one that you'll be playing live" ? //

Could it mean there is no sequence date on part 1?,
And you play part 1 live?

I know on my D2, Roland uses part 1 for d-field performance.
lhm1138
Posts: 122
Joined: 11:35, 19 December 2005

Re: 808 and 909 JOINT BUG REPORT: notes and fx CUT across pa

Post by lhm1138 »

"Could it mean there is no sequence date on part 1?,
And you play part 1 live?"

That was my interpretation of that too. So, hey, at least you have to become a better player to avoid that obnoxious gapping, right? That was Roland's intention all along you see...it's not a bug, it's a FEATURE...a keyboard tutor feature. Haha. Quite the "workaround".

At this point, it probably is just sandbox fighting, but I do feel at least somewhat vindicated that others are acknowledging this major bug, even Remix, and that my petition is approaching 500 signatures.

I don't think there's anything Roland can do coding wise to fix it, or they would've done it by now. It's obviously a design flaw, and by the time they actually started listening to the din of grousing they'd probably completed the MC808 and didn't want to have to rebuild it from the ground up.

They could maybe do an MKII or EX version, but if the complaint vs. sales figure ratio isn't to their liking, I doubt they'll do that either. I'm not sure how many folks bought the MC808 and MC909, but in a way by complaining so publicly we've probably discouraged at least a few sales, and thereby shot ourselves in the foot. In the end, at least it shows what a communication void there is between Roland and their user base. Too bad they couldn't be arsed to have a couple of people post here and elsewhere that they know about it and will be at least keeping it in mind with future designs. That would've done some serious damage control. Now though, if Korg comes out w/ a super Electribe, you're going to see a lot of MC909s and 808s on the used market.
dr_boehm
Posts: 700
Joined: 11:05, 11 November 2006
Location: Bochum, Germany

Re: 808 and 909 JOINT BUG REPORT: notes and fx CUT across pa

Post by dr_boehm »

Hi lhm!

After all i still do not understand why roland cannot solve it with a little patch:

Dont reinitialize the efx routines when the next pattern has the same fx type on the same efx processor.

This could be enabled by a simple option in the system menu.

Ciao, Dirk.
dv1394
Posts: 153
Joined: 06:40, 24 May 2007
Location: Tomsk, Russia

Re: 808 and 909 JOINT BUG REPORT: notes and fx CUT across pa

Post by dv1394 »

OR an option to lock FX settings according to the first pattern in the song.

thats how it is on KORG Triton LE. there's a pattern chain mode (they call it playlist) and you can choose to stick with the FX settings of the first pattern, so that there are no abrupt changes on pattern borders. FX edits are still accessible in that mode, so you can gradually set an FX to dry signal, switch FX type and move it back into the mix ...
The Audacity Works
Posts: 1012
Joined: 19:02, 15 November 2007
Location: Hollywood, CA

Re: 808 and 909 JOINT BUG REPORT: notes and fx CUT across pa

Post by The Audacity Works »

It's not a bug.

FX are linked to patterns. This we all understand. Switching patterns cuts the effects short. This we all understand.

The only way the MC-808/909 could possibly pull off what you want is if the engine were capable of looking ahead during that last measure (when the next pattern is "locked") and switching FX if the next pattern's FX are different but not switching at all if they're the same. It might be doable, but it's obviously not implemented in either unit. I'm not aware of any product by any manufacturer that works that way.

Obviously, if the MC-808/909 had twice the FX processors, it'd be doable as well. They don't, and even if they did, people would insist on using all of them in one pattern, and then we'd be back where we are now.

However, it's been noted that selecting patterns with the CURSOR buttons allows the FX to appear to trail over. This is a byproduct of the engine not being able to switch effects fast enough, because the user is switching patterns on the fly. This is a happy accident and is in no way representative of the MC-808/909's engine's capabilities.

Frustrating? Obviously. A bug? Nope. It's the way the MC-808 and 909 are designed. One can't compare the Fantom at all, because its FX are linked to performances, not patterns.

"OR an option to lock FX settings according to the first pattern in the song."

Yes, this is a completely viable feature request and hopefully, any new grooveboxes will implement it. Don't know if the 808/909 engine would support it.
lhm1138
Posts: 122
Joined: 11:35, 19 December 2005

Re: 808 and 909 JOINT BUG REPORT: notes and fx CUT across pa

Post by lhm1138 »

Yeah.

If only they'd put another MFX instead of that annoying multiband compressor.
lhm1138
Posts: 122
Joined: 11:35, 19 December 2005

Re: 808 and 909 JOINT BUG REPORT: notes and fx CUT across pa

Post by lhm1138 »

It wasn't just the effects though that the 909 would do it on. It would cut note sustain as well, even if effects were off. I think a lot of people never noticed because they were working at faster bpms, but try putting it at 70 or 80 bpm, and use a pad sound with high sustain and long release.
lebosqui
Posts: 28
Joined: 19:51, 31 August 2008

Re: 808 and 909 JOINT BUG REPORT: notes and fx CUT across pa

Post by lebosqui »

hi
the last post on this topic was one year ago.... any news about this problem? I'm having it as well
Chris McC
Posts: 24
Joined: 14:32, 17 November 2009

Re: 808 and 909 JOINT BUG REPORT: notes and fx CUT across pa

Post by Chris McC »

808 is a legacy product for Roland now. I guess they have given up on it and supporting the user base. Easier to make another product and get people to buy that instead. When people find bugs with that, rinse and repeat.

It's dissapointing really, I like Roland as a brand and the sound their products make. The actual management at the company seems somewhat disinterested in real user support. Sadly they can get away with this behaviour because by the time people who have bought their products realise the flaws with them, they have already made a purchase and it is too late.

We live in hope though that a developer might take pity and release an update they have made 'in their own time'...
Nord72
Posts: 196
Joined: 15:27, 24 October 2009
Location: Budapest, Hungary
Contact:

Re: 808 and 909 JOINT BUG REPORT: notes and fx CUT across pa

Post by Nord72 »

What I really missing from the 909 is the vocoder algorythm.
Sorry for the offtopic, but maybe it has some relationship to the main OS.
909 and 808 as well have the capabilites (carrier waveforms via sampling and using it as a carrier patch + microphone in for the input).
It needs only some code I think.
Roland should be one step ahead in OS development rather than hardware.
Chris McC
Posts: 24
Joined: 14:32, 17 November 2009

Re: 808 and 909 JOINT BUG REPORT: notes and fx CUT across pa

Post by Chris McC »

Roland should open source the code. Or at least parts of it that can be recompiled back in to an installable image and put on the unit.

Has anyone asked if Roland would release the source? That's the proper solution. A product has a loooooooooooooooong shelf life if a user community can support it itself.
argomax
Posts: 29
Joined: 20:00, 15 May 2009

Re: 808 and 909 JOINT BUG REPORT: notes and fx CUT across pa

Post by argomax »

NORD7:
excuse me Nord, I know this is OT and whatever, but I have the 909 with OS 1.23 and I have never encountered NO vocoder algorithm anywhere? Please elucidate, as I was about to uy a separate vocoding unit.
B0Z0
Posts: 3
Joined: 12:31, 18 January 2010

Re: 808 and 909 JOINT BUG REPORT: notes and fx CUT across pa

Post by B0Z0 »

i've found the only way to let Fx flow is to change pattern using cursor keys..just have to be in time. The same works for Amp envelope release, so can slurr noise into the next pattern. etc.,
its annoying but keeps me on my toes.
Bojketa
Posts: 3
Joined: 20:10, 18 November 2018

Re: 808 and 909 JOINT BUG REPORT: notes and fx CUT across pa

Post by Bojketa »

I know this is a very old thread, but I bought a used MC808 and I just discovered the sustain problem and I'm pissed... Did anyone find a way around this in song mode?
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