808 and 909 JOINT BUG REPORT: notes and fx CUT across patter

Forum for MC-808
TOTAL
Posts: 337
Joined: 22:28, 28 March 2007

Re: 808 and 909 JOINT BUG REPORT: notes and fx CUT across pa

Post by TOTAL »

You're right - you don't get it at all. I dare say you haven't read tha thread.



Even if fx are identical in two patterns you get them interrupted on change.

More, even if you "select" the same pattern!!
This illustrates that there is a misconception on the design side.


Korgs might be technically uncapable of of holding fx when they (fx) are changed and actually maintain fx when not changed; in both respects 808 is the opposite: it CAN maintain the old FX like delay until natural fade (when pattern is changed abruptly, the 808 does NOT have the undesirable cutting behaviour programmed), and it DOES cut fx even when they do not change, again, unless pattern change is abrupt.

Which proves that in this respect (fx "durability") 305 - 307 - 909 - 808 line is superior to any other groovebox (or at least those you know), but unfortunately Roland designers have spoiled the fun since 307 and do not appear to care.


Still need some more evidence? You can find a link to online petition signed by hundreds of MC-909 users demanding solving this, in fact making it the same as it was back in MC-305, and as it is in Fantoms.

Could sustain bug be a marketing trick to make hh producers switch to fantoms? If yes, a dirty one.


Please read the whole thread. It is all thoroughly explained more than once.




T
djayhooker
Posts: 49
Joined: 02:06, 8 July 2007
Location: not saying..you rob me nasty ;)

Re: 808 and 909 JOINT BUG REPORT: notes and fx CUT across pa

Post by djayhooker »

Wow, you can get the wrong end of the stick if you want.

No I didn't read the whole thread, I couldn't be arsed.

I don't care which groovebox is best, it makes little difference to me, I left the 'my dads bigger than your dad' sh&t in the playground.

I said I might not understand, and I didn't. Mainly cause I couldn't be bothered to read the whole thread. But as I had heard people complain about the problem I was suggesting before, I thought I would throw in the idea in case it was part of the problem.

I have had deal with korg being an arse as well as roland, although there customer support is better than korgs, and Akai you get no support whatsoever.

I was just trying to be sympathetic to your plight, we have all dealt with these big companies.

Hope you get your problem fixed, I never had a piece of equipment that has been what it said on the box, never.

But the mc808 seems fundamental and should be fixed. I can't see them running it for too long if any of the complaints are true, I hope it is not going to be another 'D2' and gets discontinued, especially as some people think it is ok.

Come on roland support your budget end equipment dammit. These people may well thinking of buting other roland products in the future.

I'm thinking roland have a budget for certain bits of equipment and think they can shortcut the groove market.
What comes around goes around, they will loose in the end, look at all the people defecting from Akais range because or there shite customer support.

Will people buy rolands higher end stuff, with this customer support I would be looking at going yamaha if I was looking at a keyboard for instance.

I'm probably going to buy an MV8800, but with the mc808 unaddressed problems I maybe looking elsewhere. Even if it does mean staying with software.
Bang da box!
TOTAL
Posts: 337
Joined: 22:28, 28 March 2007

Re: 808 and 909 JOINT BUG REPORT: notes and fx CUT across pa

Post by TOTAL »

"Wow, you can get the wrong end of the stick if you want.

No I didn't read the whole thread, I couldn't be arsed.

I don't care which groovebox is best, it makes little difference to me, I left the 'my dads bigger than your dad' sh&t in the playground."


Misunderstanding - for sure :)
TOTAL
Posts: 337
Joined: 22:28, 28 March 2007

Roland says NO WAY

Post by TOTAL »

"We got the answer from Roland Japan replying your bug report. See below.



Thank you for your waiting.



Our related person told me that this was the specification of the MC.

However, they will refer to this information for developing a future new
product.



If PTN is changed, the sound which was sounding before that will be
muffled.

Even if it uses MFX of a Delay system for MFX1 or MFX2, it will become
so.

However, if REV_SEND_LEVEL of Part is going up, "REVERB" will not be
muffled
by PTN change, will inherit a setup of former REVERB, and will continue
sounding.

This is because MC has started by the following concepts and is
continuing
it even now.

- It is specializing in the style in which change PTN and music is
played.

- MFX is premised on the tone making-use in PTN.

When making sound is greatly made by MFX, it is necessary to change
sound
including MFX by changing PTN.

On the contrary, when carrying out the chain of the PTN and performing
it
about REVERB used as a space effect of a musical piece total, it is the
specification of inheriting a setup of REVERB of front PTN.



Thank you very much for your understanding.

Best regards,



Shin-ichi Kikunaga



So as you see it's not a bug, because it is the specification of the
MC-808.
I'm sure Roland R&D persons will consider this information during
developing
the next MC.



Best,



Janos



RJA Service Center"





Looks like what Olivier quoted was the official statement of Roland.


Any final remarks?
panicmerchant
Posts: 20
Joined: 23:11, 20 May 2007

Re: 808 and 909 JOINT BUG REPORT: notes and fx CUT across pa

Post by panicmerchant »

Please see my message for 3 July. Oliver has now passed all comments on to Japan including TOTAL'S quantize idea. He is away for a week and will get back with reply to us after this. Let's see what happens.
dv1394
Posts: 153
Joined: 06:40, 24 May 2007
Location: Tomsk, Russia

Re: 808 and 909 JOINT BUG REPORT: notes and fx CUT across pa

Post by dv1394 »

ummm .... ok

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roland_MC- ... ved_issues

i beleive roland had made up their mind
i think its time to spread the word
TOTAL
Posts: 337
Joined: 22:28, 28 March 2007

Re: 808 and 909 JOINT BUG REPORT: notes and fx CUT across pa

Post by TOTAL »

Good job, dv


I was going to propose this yesterday, but rolandclan site didn't show up.
dv1394
Posts: 153
Joined: 06:40, 24 May 2007
Location: Tomsk, Russia

Re: 808 and 909 JOINT BUG REPORT: notes and fx CUT across pa

Post by dv1394 »

i've posted a short review here

http://reviews.harmony-central.com/revi ... C-808/10/1

please participate by writing to other influential sites

thanks
TOTAL
Posts: 337
Joined: 22:28, 28 March 2007

Re: 808 and 909 JOINT BUG REPORT: notes and fx CUT across pa

Post by TOTAL »

I've put the two links as a warning on kvraudio.com
lhm1138
Posts: 122
Joined: 11:35, 19 December 2005

Re: 808 and 909 JOINT BUG REPORT: notes and fx CUT across pa

Post by lhm1138 »

Wowza.

I'm so sorry to see you guys going through the same bullcrap that MC909 owners went through. I'm sorry to say that Roland knew very well about this "design specification" and what paying customers thought about it. Please refer to the MC909 OS Petition I authored long ago. Number one with a bullet is the sustain issue:

http://www.petitiononline.com/rolandjp/petition.html

This petition was hardly the first time they'd been informed...they'd been receiving complaints about it for at least a couple of years prior.

My advice is, if you want results, focus on that issue and that issue alone. IMO this "specification of the MC" is the biggest pain in the ass about the MCs. It annoys me even more that they could have then "referenced this information in developing a new product" and done right with the MC808, but instead it was the same old same old, just with a new gimmick or two slapped on. My mistake was not minimalizing, and once you start a petition, you cannot alter it. It's quite frustrating, because the MC is very central to my process, and there's not much out there that compares interface-wise.

My advice, keep hammering them about it. You've already done good by being specific and displaying how to replicate the issue...and at least maybe they'll release a new product that has taken into consideration previous complaints. If they did that, I would gladly shut up, unload my 909 and "buy up".

The much easier route, though, is to just go with another company like Akai.
TOTAL
Posts: 337
Joined: 22:28, 28 March 2007

MC808SB

Post by TOTAL »

Hi lhm

Personally, I do NOT even consider a new groovebox now. If anyone wants modern solutions plus flexibility it is not TurboFlash or COSMXTR, for sure.

Akais are different kinds of devices, so comparing MCs to them makes no sense. MV vs. MPC - would, but we're at MC subject, aren't we.


I have bought this device because I find it to be a decent machine for making stuff playable live. And I accept the limitations I have already discovered and hopefully also those I discover in the future, as the inevitable compromise, plus a challenge.

Buy a new machine, like f.e. Spektralis - much too soon for me. I want to truly learn to use this piece and have it work for the moneys I paid. Hardware Junkie - this is nothing to be proud of being, IMHO.

R's pidgin-style response concerning Sustain bug (this is a bug for sure - too many ppl agree about it) is not just a diplomacy. It's ridiculously explained, but but a clear statement: NO WAY.

As a client I am dissatisfied with RCorp and I am going to bear this in mind when making a hardware decision in future. Also if I come across any enquiry about MC line on the net I will definitely write a warning, as I am already doing.

And for the time being I am going to keep on making music on MC808SB. I find it fun and pleasure.

F... R... and their hard principles. If they become useless on the market, they will disappear; till then why exterminate them.
lhm1138
Posts: 122
Joined: 11:35, 19 December 2005

Re: 808 and 909 JOINT BUG REPORT: notes and fx CUT across pa

Post by lhm1138 »

I understand your frustration, I really do.

Hey, just be glad you didn't shell out $1,300 for a new MC909 that has the exact same issue. Imagine how irritated you'd be then?

But like you say, you just have to make the best of it. Focus on the things on the MC808 that really work for you. I love my MC909 as well, it is a great studio tool. It would just be nice to see these instruments taken to their full potential. If the little Korg ESX-1 and EMX-1 can switch between patterns without the (very noticeable and embarassing at lower bpms) sustain drops, then these things damn well should be able to. If it's a design issue, Roland should be listening to their user base and design accordingly. If it's a DSP issue, the same also applies...or they could release an upgrade chip which can be installed by Roland techs, i.e. an EX version like the SP808 had.
tuanjamz2
Posts: 20
Joined: 02:53, 14 March 2007

Re: 808 and 909 JOINT BUG REPORT: notes and fx CUT across pa

Post by tuanjamz2 »

Has anyone found out how and who to hack the os ?? There was talk about it in earlier post ?? What happen there ?? Let me know also i'm a mc user as well :(( . Thanks tuanjamz2
dv1394
Posts: 153
Joined: 06:40, 24 May 2007
Location: Tomsk, Russia

wow! freedom of speech! i'm lovin' it!

Post by dv1394 »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roland_MC- ... ved_issues

does not exist any more!

some of you (total, as far as i remember and some others) have seen the link in place, it was real... i might have though i had been posting to wikipedia in a dream...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roland_MC- ... olved_bugs

is still there - because its a discontinued product i suppose.

notice an URL link to 808 problems, which had been put there by 909 page editor when 808 portion of bugs was still there ...

peace ...

---
p.s.
notice this link, the info was not there when i last edited MC-808 WIKIpedia page

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roland_MC-808#Users

and have a look at this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T%C3%A9o_% ... et_patches
TOTAL
Posts: 337
Joined: 22:28, 28 March 2007

Re: 808 and 909 JOINT BUG REPORT: notes and fx CUT across pa

Post by TOTAL »

So we need to to move our work underground ... ;)
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