PLEASE HELP W/ MC-808!

Forum for MC-808
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AstroRock
Posts: 5
Joined: 03:05, 5 May 2009
Location: Mobile, AL

PLEASE HELP W/ MC-808!

Post by AstroRock »

Ok, so I am posting this as a last resort. I have looked everywhere, scoured manuals for hours, and still can't find answers. I am going to be doing electronics for this new band I joined. I will be running an Axiom MIDI controller into the MC-808, and using the internal sound generator inside the 808 to play live (as if it were a synth module). There will also be certain patterns in the 808 that I will be cueing up, as well parts that I will be muting, etc.

So there are a couple of things I would like to do with my Axiom controller via MIDI. The main and most important thing, for the sake of all convenience, I want to be able to send a MIDI command from my Axiom to the 808 that will tell the 808 to start the pattern (or stop it). If you aren't familiar with an Axiom, it has Transport controls (Play, Stop, FWD, REW, REC) that are fully assignable. The 808 also has the transport features for its sequencer which I want to control. I have tried sending MMC SysEx commands to the 808. This didn't work. I know I am sending the right commands, I have the MIDI messages being sent out of the 808 into my PC, into MIDIox, a MIDI translator program which lets you seen incoming and outgoing MIDI messages. So it has to be the fact the 808 just isn't receiving those commands, or it doesn't understand those particular MMC messages. Does anyone know what MIDI messages the 808 has to receive to tell it to play or stop? Is this even possible with this machine? Lord knows it should be, if it has MIDI functionality and is intended, atleast in part, for live use, and you can even change the clock to internal or external, then you should be able to tell the thing to start using another piece of hardware!

There are a few more things I need to know as well. But I don't want to drop everything on you guys at once! I really need a copy of the 808 editor software. I can't seem to find it on Roland's website, which is absolutely horrible. And the fact that there is little to no information on the MIDI functionality of this box is just astounding. I mean I know this thing has all kinds of cool possibilities, but after reading through both the instruction manual and parameter list EXTENSIVELY, it just seems like Roland's attitude was, "Here's a few of the cool things the MC-808 can do, now have fun trying to figure out how to use them!"
BirdFLU
Posts: 72
Joined: 01:17, 13 January 2007
Location: PDX

Re: PLEASE HELP W/ MC-808!

Post by BirdFLU »

You're definitely going to need the MIDI sysex documentation for the 808. I don't remember where I got it, but it was a pain to find. I can e-mail it to you if someone else doesn't post a link here.

The editor is easy enough to find though:

http://www.roland.com/products/en/_supp ... iCncd=1070

If I remember correctly, it's included in the OS update file, so it's not listed as a separate download.
AstroRock
Posts: 5
Joined: 03:05, 5 May 2009
Location: Mobile, AL

Re: PLEASE HELP W/ MC-808!

Post by AstroRock »

Man, if you could email me a copy of ANY MIDI documentation that you may have I would be forever grateful!! I have looked everywhere and was almost at the point where I was going to try to call Roland Customer Support to see if they had any documentation they could send me. You are a lifesaver!! My email addy is astro.rock@gmail.com .

And as for the editor, I tried downloading the updater from the location you specified and it did not work correctly. I am trying it again right now on a different computer. So we will see if it works. Does the updater .exe contain the driver for the 808 as well? The only Windows driver the have listed is for Vista, which I don't have.
dr_boehm
Posts: 700
Joined: 11:05, 11 November 2006
Location: Bochum, Germany

Re: PLEASE HELP W/ MC-808!

Post by dr_boehm »

Hi,

use the search function in this forum. There have been some posts regarding midi implementations some time before.

I am not at home at the moment. But i can send you the midi implementation on weekend.

Bye, Dirk.
dv1394
Posts: 153
Joined: 06:40, 24 May 2007
Location: Tomsk, Russia

Re: PLEASE HELP W/ MC-808!

Post by dv1394 »

AstroRock
Posts: 5
Joined: 03:05, 5 May 2009
Location: Mobile, AL

Re: PLEASE HELP W/ MC-808!

Post by AstroRock »

Believe me, I have become well acquainted with the search function. Up until BirdFlu suggested the implementation chart, I did not even know one existed it. I guarantee you that I do all the possible research I can before asking questions. Though, I do thank you all for your help, it is greatly appreciated.

Ok, so its question time. That MIDI Implementation chart told me exactly what I need to know. The 808 does recognized System Real Time commands for PLAY, STOP, etc. AWESOME! The problem is my axiom does not send System Real Time SYSex events. Its not that big of a problem because I can just run the Axiom into my PC, into MIDIox, and translate any CC from my Axiom into a SYSex event and send it out to the 808. I am not super familiar with SYSex though. Here is where I am at:
I found the command I need in section 3.3 "Messages acknowledged for synchronization" on p.6. The only info it has under it is the Status for the SYSex event, which is FAH. Does that mean that FAH replaces byte F0H in the hex string? Or is FAH the actual byte being sent as the start address? If so, then what values, if any, are entered for part 7 of the hex string? And do you need a checksum?

As for the MC-808 Editor software! I actually found a copy of the editor after searching through tons of pages for like a week straight. This page http://www.roland.com/products/en/_supp ... iCncd=1070 on Roland's website is supposed to have all of the drivers. It has 4 files. The first DRIVER is for Windows Vista, which I do not have, I have XP. The second DRIVER is for Mac. The third and fourth files are UPDATERs. I downloaded and unzipped both of them. They both contain BIN files. To get these BIN files to work you must have an EXE file. This makes sense seeing how the files are UPDATERs, they need something to actually update.
Well the original Editor file can actually be found (for Windows XP) on the page http://www.rolandus.com/products/produc ... arentId=84 . From all that I can tell, there is no way to get to that page from just going to www.roland.com I had to search through Google for days to find it. Anyway, I hope that little bit of info will save someone some time in the future.
dr_boehm
Posts: 700
Joined: 11:05, 11 November 2006
Location: Bochum, Germany

Re: PLEASE HELP W/ MC-808!

Post by dr_boehm »

Hi,

try this on rolandus:

http://www.rolandus.com/products/produc ... arentId=84

Bye, Dirk.

Btw: FA is the F0 message on channel 10 (= HEX A). As far as i remember the checksum is only on the workload of the message and not on the header.

In most cases it has shown that it is easier to use the mc-808 as the master. Cant you just press start on the mc-808 and sync the other equipment to master mc-808?
AstroRock
Posts: 5
Joined: 03:05, 5 May 2009
Location: Mobile, AL

Re: PLEASE HELP W/ MC-808!

Post by AstroRock »

Thanks for the link Dirk. Though I had actually already found that page myself. That is the one I posted in the previous thread.

And no, It really wouldn't be easier for me to just push play on the 808. I mean, I can do it, but one reason I have a fully functional MIDI controller is so I can control other other pieces of hardware without having to physically interact with them. That is what its designed for...
I am going to mainly be playing the keyboard. So it makes things a lot more convenient if I am not trying to move back and forth between two pieces of equipment. I am also going to be muting and switching patterns on the 808 while still having to play keyboard melodies at times. And there is the rest of the band too, a drummer especially, who has to keep up with the drum machine in order to stay in time. I can't be late when switching patterns and everything or everything will trainwreck. I just don't know why you wouldn't want to make your equipment work for you and not visa versa.

Ok, when you say "FA is the F0 message on channel 10 (= HEX A)" are you saying FA does replace F0?

[1]...[2]...[3]...[4]...[5]...[6]...[7]...[8]...[9]
F0....41....17....5D...12....xx....xx....xx...F7

So would FA go in byte 1? I know byte 2 is the Roland MFG ID, byte 3 is my device ID, byte 4 is the model ID (which is 5D for the 808 according to the implementation guide), byte 5 is telling it to transmit, byte 6 is the start address (which I don't know), byte 7 is the info its sending to the start addy, byte 8 is the checksum (if it needs it), and byte 9 is the closing tag. Does the closing tag change if byte 1 changes? Any suggestions?
dr_boehm
Posts: 700
Joined: 11:05, 11 November 2006
Location: Bochum, Germany

Re: PLEASE HELP W/ MC-808!

Post by dr_boehm »

Hi,

sorry FA was wrong. Sysex is always without channel.

Yes, checksum will change if 1 byte changes. You get the adr. from midi imp chart.

Btw, you can not change patterns with midi messages.

Bye, Dirk.
dr_boehm
Posts: 700
Joined: 11:05, 11 November 2006
Location: Bochum, Germany

Re: PLEASE HELP W/ MC-808!

Post by dr_boehm »

Hi,

closing tag will not change. But checksum will. Add all the bytes starting with the adress. Calc. div remainder (modulo) 128. Subtract the result from 128. This is the checksum.

Bye, Dirk.
AstroRock
Posts: 5
Joined: 03:05, 5 May 2009
Location: Mobile, AL

Re: PLEASE HELP W/ MC-808!

Post by AstroRock »

Hey Dirk. Thanks for your responses, I do appreciate your help. I actually figured out everything I needed to know about getting this Play function to work. I took my question over to the MIDI-OX forum, and those guys explained everything to me.

The Start message (FA), is actually a System Real Time message, not a SYSex message. So I don't need to actually construct a whole SYSex Hex string. The only byte of information the 808 needs to play is FA (and i think the byte for Stop is F8).

So for those of you who aren't familiar, MIDI-OX is a piece of software that allows you to virtually map your MIDI connections through your PC, as well as having tons of other functions such as MIDI message translation, SYSex dumps, etc. What I am going to be doing is sending a CC event from my Axiom's Play button, into MIDI-OX, then translating that CC into a System Real Time Start message, and finally having MIDI-OX send the new message to the MC-808. Its actually a lot easier than we were all making it. If you want to read about this solution in a little more detail, you can check out my thread on the MIDI-OX forum. Hopefully this will save someone all the time and frustration that I experienced with this predicament. Here is that thread: http://www.midiox.com/cgi/yabb/YaBB.pl? ... 1242335226
BirdFLU
Posts: 72
Joined: 01:17, 13 January 2007
Location: PDX

Re: PLEASE HELP W/ MC-808!

Post by BirdFLU »

And if you're on a Mac, MIDI Monitor does pretty much the same thing as MIDIOX.
Adekoyote
Posts: 32
Joined: 20:55, 14 June 2011

Re: PLEASE HELP W/ MC-808!

Post by Adekoyote »

Can you use this as a method of automating changes in the MC808 software editor?
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