Can I use geist to record into a MC-808 pattern?

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Adekoyote
Posts: 32
Joined: 20:55, 14 June 2011

Can I use geist to record into a MC-808 pattern?

Post by Adekoyote »

Basically I know I could use the geist vst to edit a midi pattern, but then I had an idea...can you record a pattern from geist into the mc-808? once the record is done then the recorded pattern stays.

The reason I am asking is because it is a little tedious working with velocity settings in the MC-808. I bought the mc808 for the sounds and the synth, but sometimes I want to make edits and the microscope mode is not the best way to manage making music...it is counter intuitive...the good news is that the mc-808 is talking to ableton nicely(after installing an OS to a different hard drive)

All in all I like the mc808 the more I work with it, and it is a valued piece in my studio...but the idea is to have the ability to extend its midi sequencing ability ANYWAY I can.
DaniH
Posts: 123
Joined: 13:08, 13 December 2010

Re: Can I use geist to record into a MC-808 pattern?

Post by DaniH »

You are trying to record midi data into the MC-808 right, from a vst?? What DAW or program are you using for geist??
Adekoyote
Posts: 32
Joined: 20:55, 14 June 2011

Re: Can I use geist to record into a MC-808 pattern?

Post by Adekoyote »

I use ableton, and it is set up and communicating to the mc-808 quite well. and yes, if I could get the mc-808 to record from geist or any other vst that would be an amazing time saver.

I really enjoy the mc-808. but my enjoyment is not based on youtube videos or internet marketing articles...it is totally different from using ableton...waaaay different.

to be quite honest, the learning curve is equal to that of a DAW...and doing things that are common place in a DAW like ableton take quite a bit of time...and you can sideskirt certain issues, like bassline/step record programming...but on the matter of effects and the synthesizer(50% of the unit!) I find that it takes about 3-4 hours of practice per day.

not just making songs or listening to the default patches....but also you have to practice understanding it in a hands on manner

You have to get accustomed to what each button does and the potential combos of the buttons

I love it, but I don't need to go dumpster diving to set up ghost notes and rhythm beds...So I am trying to find a way to enjoy it for its strengths, and to see if there are ways to jury rig the mutha to speed up getting my DAW songs to a playable groovebox format.
DaniH
Posts: 123
Joined: 13:08, 13 December 2010

Re: Can I use geist to record into a MC-808 pattern?

Post by DaniH »

I used abelton for a total of two weeks and did not like it and I have not heard of geist. But I don't think you can tweak midi data from geist to the MC-808. You can tweak geist from the MC-808 though. I am more familiar with Acid Pro, Reason, and FL Studio.
Adekoyote
Posts: 32
Joined: 20:55, 14 June 2011

Re: Can I use geist to record into a MC-808 pattern?

Post by Adekoyote »

I speak ableton...but that should not matter hear really...to each their own...our main focus should be getting the most out of our grooveboxes while spending the least amount of our lives doing so...I say this because I have exactly 3-5 hours per day to study how to integrate it into my set up. I am not a purist. and I learn fast. but I have to got to work and take care of my personal life as well.

Geist is a groovebox vst. It rocks....what can I say...google it... What I am trying to do is get geist to do the more complex editing of midi notes....things like ghost notes, repeats, shifting etc...basically things that you would do in the microscope view, but you would have a visually reference in an environment that feels like a groovebox.

The DAW or the VST doesn't matter so much. we just need the ability to have the ability to write to the mc-808 from inside the software....that little piece of action can save me alot of time...

I don't have too much time to work with the box, and I am trying to find a way to hack it with an editor...in the same way that roland gave us the patch editor for the synth chip...I would also like that for the step sequencer.

that is...unless someone *enjoys* working in the microscope editor?

I already have it for the bassline...now I need to expand on it.
DaniH
Posts: 123
Joined: 13:08, 13 December 2010

Re: Can I use geist to record into a MC-808 pattern?

Post by DaniH »

I checked out geist it seems nice. If you use Ableton you can sequence all midi into the MC-808. I am sure you can find tutorials on YouTube and forums.

What OS do you use for your computer??
Adekoyote
Posts: 32
Joined: 20:55, 14 June 2011

Re: Can I use geist to record into a MC-808 pattern?

Post by Adekoyote »

I GOT IT TO WORK!

windows XP32 for mc808 operations, etc
windows xp64 for other stuff.

Geist CAN feed the information INTO the MC-808.

HOWEVER, you have to massage the midi data with ableton midi effects...
Adekoyote
Posts: 32
Joined: 20:55, 14 June 2011

Re: Can I use geist to record into a MC-808 pattern?

Post by Adekoyote »

I have succeeded at getting geist to do a real time record INTO the mc 808...which means that you can record straight into the MC808 from a graphical interface. The first attempt led to a small error on the bassdrum recording, but now I am able to "draw and sketch" on geist's drum grid, it great speeds up the beat creation process.

you can easily edit velocity and also draw in ghost notes, and then go back into the MC-808 and make more readjustments. so far I tested the velocity and repeat functions...I have to admit it is pretty sweet...allowing you to sketch out related points quickly, and the sending the MIDI into mc-808.
Adekoyote
Posts: 32
Joined: 20:55, 14 June 2011

Re: Can I use geist to record into a MC-808 pattern?

Post by Adekoyote »

things to watch out for...you will need a seperate instance of geist for each of the parts/instruments in the MC-808.

I can't seem to get geist to send midi data from engine one/xx to part one/xx

so you will need to build a seperate instance for each kit/instrument.

when using drum kits, you need to use the scale midi function in ableton on the incoming midi track that is receiving from geist and going into the MC-808. transpose +23 semitones and you should be set...
Adekoyote
Posts: 32
Joined: 20:55, 14 June 2011

Re: Can I use geist to record into a MC-808 pattern?

Post by Adekoyote »

Some minor issues...with the mc 808 and ableton.

The midi clock from the mc-808 is kind of dodgy...it cant seen to always sync ableton and the mc-808 when the mc808 is the slave. hopefully there is a solution.

ableton however does well at mastering the clock on the mc-808. I have an apc-20 and I can use that for the transport, but I would still like to use the more centralized button on the mc808.

some interesting stuff can be done via chromatically programming synths via geist...but the next test is to check if the piano roll in ableton to see what kind of midi can can send to the patches. hopefully I can modulate some patch parameters.

also geist has the proper interface for managing snapshots of patterns, before needing to commit them to the mc-808.

probably what needs to happen is the mc-808 needs to be set to master when recording TO the mc-808. but for proper synced freeform sketching, ableton is a better for master sync...(I realized this when realtime record MIGHT be unavailable to me if the mc-808 wasn't in sync.)
chiefastronaut
Posts: 2
Joined: 20:19, 25 February 2010

Re: Can I use geist to record into a MC-808 pattern?

Post by chiefastronaut »

I am really interested in this topic. I have had an MC 808 since 2007 and have used the 303 and 505 for sometime as well. For awhile I used them for all of my MIDI sequencing but slowly transitioned to Cubase as my sequencer after using it for audio for sometime. I recently bought Geist and love how similar it is to a groovebox.

However, I really enjoy using my MC 808 live and import midi files from Cubase to it. I hadn't really thought of recording/importing MIDI to the 808 from Geist but think it's a cool idea and agree that if it worked smoothly it would be a great editor like companion to the 808's sequencer. So here are some things to try that I will also check out. (Disclaimer: I have read the manuals to all my groove boxes and cubase and feel that I have a really good handle on them. With ableton and geist I've really done more of a guess and check approach that has sort of worked well.)

First, use the mid function through usb rather than a MIDI cable via an interface. I've always found this works better with the 808 when it runs as a slave.

Second, if you have Cubase try using it with Geist to the 808, the 808 and Cubase 4 or 5 sync very well and Ableton has never done the trick for me here.

Third, have you tried running Geist as a stand alone application? This will probably allow you to run multiple channels at once to the 808 because it wont be hosted in one channel of a DAW. The only catch might be how well the Geist alone syncs with the 808.

Fourth, The thing I am probably most interested in myself and you maybe will be too is simply exporting MIDI (.smf) files from Geist to the 808 via USB. I do this with cubase often and the 808 reads velocity, and all other cc messages I program in cubase. I haven't tried to export MIDI files from Geist and don't know if they are in the .smf format but if they are you will save a ton of time and I will have a great knew tool. I'll try and let you know.
Cheers
Adekoyote
Posts: 32
Joined: 20:55, 14 June 2011

Re: Can I use geist to record into a MC-808 pattern?

Post by Adekoyote »

Great to hear your enthusiasm and willingness to share your findings. This is my update:

Before I begin the message one of the main things that mc808 that I became aware of was this: generally you have a composite signals of 16 channels. That is what is feeding into the DAW. The DAW is to be focused on midi orchestration and sample playback...latency is crucial.

Geist is a groovy add-on. Currently there are 6-8 instances. it either serves for the rhythm kick or for chromatic precussive synth stabs.

For basslines and other types of lead(303-style) I use Phoscyon from D16...simply love the workflow. That being said, ableton is there and could be used for either effect, but there are some extremely important assets of each of these plugins. Namely, Phosycon and geist unlocks realtime step recording in the mc-808. Try making a bassline without a computer on the mc-808...it is tedious and you have to peck your way through stuff that should be automatic. same thing with geist, instant randomized velocity and the shift functions work magic...you can also change the time signature withn geist for that engine...and it successfully sends that midi to the MC808.

Another fundamentally power-up occurs when you can press play in geist or phoscyon and autoplay preview the midi data it is sending just to that channel. Alternately I also use the ableton piano roll to lay out pads and chords.

The MC808 must be the slave...at least with ableton, due to latency issues...but you have to route it twice...three times if you want to send midi from ableton to mc808 VIA clip envelopes. and then mc808 really opens up. The motorized faders that were once the laughin stock of the groove community start to shine. They remember there position no matter which channel you are looking at. Also you can use clip envelops as a step-editor/ modulator for each of the sliders functions in the MC808. I am working now with the cutoff frequencies and the amp release...automatic rhythmic modulation.

Sound quality trumps a 95% of my software synths. The editor is unwieldly, but once you get into it and the Fantom-X tweakbook it is lovable...especially if you have geist and phoscyon...tweaking hats, drums and basslines has lead me to customize my own sounds. love it.

Recording: I am going to stick to a computer connected setup. That being said. The best way to make a disconnect for the computer is via a realtime record and of course save the files to the editor.

While I am no expert, I am super enthusiastic about my MC-808. I would buy another, or a Fantom XR rack. The thing is that this box is a future relic. It was ahead of its time. But now we have tools at our disposal to break the limitations of the box. the synthesis engine has kick. and each channel has its own routing solution.

About the things I love: instant access to the overall character of the sound while you play. There is a limitation of 2 MFX per pattern...so the next goal is to see if I can dial a copy of the pattern with different MFX.

Drawbacks:

Ableton file is pretty large, and alot of further organization is necessary to feel fluid.

patches always need to be massaged to that they can be mixed better...but this is ok, it forces you to practice.

Midi implementation is vague. We need a VST solution to automate the patches on the level of the DAW.

You need more and more controller..especially for the Geist. With Geist super sync lock I am never out of step...so when you have more than on percussion track you need one controller per layer of percussion.


Currently, with everything at my disposal I am extremely happy with the MC-808. You do have to rig it right, and I would never play in without it being properly rigged. But everday I learn something new or I evolve my setup...and the synth engine is crisp and crush. take care all!
andy_warhol
Posts: 1
Joined: 01:32, 15 March 2013

Re: Can I use geist to record into a MC-808 pattern?

Post by andy_warhol »

hi, i just bought mc-808 and want create patterns (especially beat patterns), but in the device is difficult. I found this forum and I see, its possible use Geist, which is much more user friendly. I have couple of question to Adekoyote. Are you still here ?
Adekoyote
Posts: 32
Joined: 20:55, 14 June 2011

Re: Can I use geist to record into a MC-808 pattern?

Post by Adekoyote »

yes I am, you can also join the MC808 group on facebook as well
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