Mac Mini good enough for DAW-use ?

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CJ
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Mac Mini good enough for DAW-use ?

Post by CJ »

Hi all,

maybe some of you (or not) have read earlier posts by me about midi-problems with my currrent PC/Cubase with Fantom X7.

Well, after many times of crashes etc. my PC is not even starting up anymore (no more internal electricity-power, and trying another external power-cable did not help anymore).

Fortunately a while ago I backed-up all my Cubase-projects, plugins etc. etc. but I am finished with this old PC !!!

I had the plan anyway to upgrade/replace my PC so I went looking for info/check specs etc.

After searching and getting my needs clear I have serious thoughts at the new Mac Mini, why :

- Not too expensive (my cashflow doesn't allow me now to go for Mac Pro or Macbook Pro)
- Does not take too much space
- More and more people around me (former Windows-users) tell me that with Mac they got the feeling that the stability is better than with a 'normal Windows PC'


My questions:

- If someone has experience with the Mac Mini, what do you think about it ?
- Is it powerful enough for 'normal' DAW-use ? I will use it mainly for sequencing (Cubase/Logic) and mostly use external sounds (Fantom X and other hardware-synths/-modules). Then after recording want to be able to add FX(plugins) to the recorded stuff and audio-mixdowns etc. etc.
- I have the Edirol UR-80 usb audio/midi interface now, good for use with Mac Mini ?
- Is the mac 'learning-curve' a long road when I am used to Windows ?

Mh, these are just my thoughts until now. Would be glad with some user-experiences and advices here.

Thanks in advance
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Artemiy
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Re: Mac Mini good enough for DAW-use ?

Post by Artemiy »

CJ, this would be a very wise move.

I have been through Windows and Linux, and can say that Mac is at least 10 years ahead of any other platform, especially since it's one company that designs the hardware and makes the software. It's a fantastic experience, to be honest. The learning curve is non existent, I guess it could compare to getting from a Hyundai into a Mercedes - still a car, but a different level in every aspect of it. After about a week or two, you will wonder why it took you so long to switch - take my word.

As of a modern Mac Mini, it's a pretty powerful machine. You can choose either 2.26GHz, 2.53GHz, or 2.66GHz dual-core processor, and even the slowest one will be good enough. The stock RAM is 2 GB, you can have up to 4 or 8 GB I think. I presently have a 1.83 GHz iMac with 4 GB RAM, and with GarageBand it is good enough for about 20-30 audio tracks plus 5-10 pretty hungry virtual instrument tracks, and around 30-40 effect plug-ins on top of them, so you should have up to 50-60 audio and MIDI tracks easily or even more. OS X is more efficient than Windows in this respect, it eats up very little resources and you do not need to reboot your machine or install any RAM-cleaner software, etc. Even after a few days without switching on it will work as after a fresh reboot.

I personally think that MacMini is an amazing computer, a true masterpiece of technology, just like the iMac. Nothing can even come close to the feelings you will have working with such awesome devices.

Regarding Edirol UR-80, Roland US site says they have a fresh driver for Mac, so it should definitely work well.

P.S. I have had my iMac for almost four years and it switches on and boots every day like the first time after I unboxed it. Even after many software installations and system updates, it feels as fresh and snappy.
CJ
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Re: Mac Mini good enough for DAW-use ?

Post by CJ »

Thank you Artemiy,

Thanks for your quick and clear answer.

(I remember you ever recommended Mac in a thread where I wanted to choose between hardware-recording or PC).

Oh yeah, antoher question. If I have to exchange for example Cubase/Logic-projects with Windows-users, is that very complicated ?

Or (when I think simple) is it just like I can mixdown all tracks of a song into wavs and then without complication the Windows-user can go along with it in his Windows-Logic/Cubase ?

And what if a Windows-using friend sends me some Cubase-project and asks me to add things to his tracks from my Mac ?

Is it plugin-wise also easy ?

(I did see Garage-band come by many times with Mac-promotions but until now did not take the time to take a closer look at it).
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Artemiy
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Re: Mac Mini good enough for DAW-use ?

Post by Artemiy »

CJ, of course exporting audio is the easiest solution if there is no other compatibility. However, Cubase seems to be cross-platform and one other friend of mine also wondered if the Mac version will load up his Windows project. I asked this question here and hope to get a reply soon:
http://www.macosxaudio.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=47581

As of GarageBand, it's a pretty basic DAW compared to Cubase and Logic, but being a stripped-down Logic inside, it still sounds great. And think of it: up to 255 audio and 255 instrument tracks, support for AudioUnit instruments, up to 4 AudioUnit effects per track, EQ with analyzer per track, 24 bit audio with 32 bit engine, drag and drop arrangement, built-in audio and MIDI editing, export project to audio... It is actually more powerful than the Fantom-G. So nothing that would prevent you from using it as a professional tool.

However, many people need more advanced audio and MIDI features and so on, so of course you may be better with Logic Pro or Express, or Cubase.
CJ
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Re: Mac Mini good enough for DAW-use ?

Post by CJ »

@Artemiy,

yesterday I got myself a Mac mini !!!!

I am ' learning' now to use Mac-system :-)

Of course one of the first things I did was to check Garageband. Nice :-)
Yes I was used to Reason and Cubase, but trying this Garageband was easy, and I got the feeling it will not take me too much energy to learn the interface. But I am already checking info about Logic Studio !

In fact I want to be able to record Fantom X -sounds through midi of my X7 along with software instruments again. Run through the Edirol-UR80 audio/midi interface where I can connect microphone too.

Mh, fortunately I have all my older songs (from Cubase and Reason) saved on external hard-disk. So if I ever want to work further on those, I can open them at a friend's PC.

But I am hoping/wondering that there will be some good converting so that I might one day play my old Windows Reason-files (*.rpn) and Cubase-projects in my new Mac. Or is this already possible ? I still did not find good info about this specific question. Hope that your question at the macosxaudio website will be answered soon :-)
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Re: Mac Mini good enough for DAW-use ?

Post by Artemiy »

CJ, congratulations for the switch! I am sure you will enjoy the better times now.

And yes, GarageBand is very easy to learn. And it comes with lots of cool stuff you can play out of the box. Once again, don't forget it supports AudioUnit plug-ins, which means you can use any great instrument or effect plug-in you want in the same was as in the bigger Logic Express or Pro. Seriously, you can do a lot with it, even auto pitch correction on vocal tracks!

BTW, if you want to use external MIDI gear with GarageBand, there is a free MIDI-O plug-in that you can use:
http://mysite.verizon.net/retroware/
It may be helpful for you for if you need to do sequencing before you decide which big host to purchase.

As about your previous projects, were these MIDI + audio or only audio tracks? In case of MIDI tracks, you can of course export them as a MIDI file, and import into the Mac host (even GarageBand supports this). Audio tracks can be exported and re-imported one by one, too.
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Re: Mac Mini good enough for DAW-use ?

Post by CJ »

Hi Artemiy,

yes thank you also for the MIDI-O plug ! I midi-connected my Fantom X7 and it works with Garageband !

Mh, midi in-out no problems. But I do have one problem here and hope someone can help me:

I created a software-track (let's say the drumtrack) in a song. Everything goes well, metronome (of the Mac audio) has continous ' speed' in the desired loop I create. Metronome speed keeps flowing good during recording and also during playback of that track.

Okay I create another track, to play a bassline. So yes, I marked track 2 with mouse-click so it lights up. When I playback then suddenly the metronome click seems to be a little slowed down ! While recording AND while playback. But when I go to drumtrack again, then the metronome is ' good' again.

I tested it also by creating more tracks (virtual and audio) and marking them and compare with the drumtrack (I mean, could be any instrument, but in this case). But still, only continuous metronome-speed at the drumtrack.

Hope I wrote it down clearly, not easy to explain. I guess you can imagine how annoying this is. I can play something basic as the first track, but when I want to record on other tracks it is almost impossible (I already checked the quantizing, and audio-options at the preferences of Garageband), because then nothing suits the counting any longer !!!

I was also wondering if it has something to do with my USB audio-midi interface (Edirol UR-80) between the Fantom and the Mac ? Can it be because the UR-80 is a 24bit/96khz system (but in my UR-80 preference display on Mac it says 32 bit ) ?

What can be the problem/solution ?
Am I connecting things the wrong way ? The routing now is Fantom Midi I/O to midi of Edirol Audi-midi interface I/O , also Fantom Audio output L/R into audio L/R input in Edirol. Then Edirol via its USB connection into the USB of the Mac.

Is it a midi problem ? Audio Problem ? Interface problem ? Connections problem ?

Mh, annoying case.

Thanks a lot in advance.
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Artemiy
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Re: Mac Mini good enough for DAW-use ?

Post by Artemiy »

CJ, I am afraid that the MIDI-O plug-in might not be good at multiple tracks... I think it is a quick free solution for if you don't have a full MIDI sequencer. If you need a quick solution right now, try dumping your sequenced tracks into audio tracks, i.e. you can record one MIDI track and then dump it into an audio track, then repeat for other parts.

But I think you will need Logic Express at least if you want to work with multiple MIDI tracks.
CJ
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Re: Mac Mini good enough for DAW-use ?

Post by CJ »

Thanks for your reply Artemiy,

Yes, forgot to mention that I already tried to dump a sequenced track into audio, but did not work also. Metronome still little slower when playing back. Thanks anyway for sharing that link to the Midi-O

I was already thinking about Logic Express 9, should be enough to do what I alwways do: mostly virtual instruments, but also use Fantom sounds and sometimes add live vocal and guitar recording. I don't think I need the full complete Logic Studio 9.

Hm, I am even thinking: Logic Express 9 or Cubase Essential 5 ?

I know that Logic gets me interested more because of the easy interface I saw through Garagaeband, but on the other hand I was used to Cubase and both of these 'lite' versions are available for Mac. I know both Cubase and Logic have their plus-points, so that is not the deal.
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Re: Mac Mini good enough for DAW-use ?

Post by Artemiy »

Hmm, still a bit weird but I guess MIDI-O is not that good after all, sorry if I wasted your time. On my side, with just virtual instrument tracks and audio tracks (no MIDI-O tracks), GarageBand works pretty much perfectly.

As of a more full-featured host, I would recommend you Logic Express, it definitely beats Cubase with a more clear user interface. Looking at the specs of Cubase Essential, it has a limited amount of audio and MIDI tracks, which is not that good. Logic also has way more virtual instruments and effects in the package, with Cubase Essential you'd be pretty limited and may have to buy more plugins. Another point for Logic is that Cubase doesn't support AudioUnit plugins, only VST, and while the big companies ship in both formats, there are more AudioUnit plugins out there (since it's native format for Mac OS X).
CJ
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Re: Mac Mini good enough for DAW-use ?

Post by CJ »

Guess what, this weekend I bought Logic Express 9 :-)

Of course I immediately installed it and started working (and learning) with it.

Well, until now it works fine !!!

Audio = great, Midi-connection = great, AU-effects = great

I just started creating arrangements being a combination of sounds of the Logic-software instruments and midi-triggered sounds of my Fantom X7 ! Mh, I wanna see if it is possible to see some 'kit' to create a Fantom-X environment inside Logic, to easily go through the X-sounds

Btw, am I doing right by recording Fantom through midi, then seperately record those midied output tracks as audio-track on a new track ?

Or is this a faster way/application to do so ?

And I keep on learning Logic (looks like Logic is so inviting that you WANT to learn it !)
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Artemiy
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Re: Mac Mini good enough for DAW-use ?

Post by Artemiy »

Very glad you liked Logic!

As of your recording method, yes, this is the way I'd do it. Mute the MIDI tracks that you've recorded and keep them for if you'll need to change anything in the future.

The only way you could speed things up is if you had an audio interface with two stereo inputs, so you could record two Fantom-X parts at a time (one from output A and one from B), although this would probably complicate your work.
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