Help...

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SammyJames
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Help...

Post by SammyJames »

Okay. I'm still having some problems, and I really need to hear from some of you who have a lot of experience using computers and VSTis, in particular. Note that I already own a PC (Spectral) and I don't have the money to buy a Mac and an Apogee Symphony. That would be great, but it is a non-starter for me right now.

The problem is that I have an M-Audio PCI card (Audiophile 192) and a dual-core Pentium, 3.0 GHz. I also have 3 Gigs of RAM. I would have thought that this would let me play stuff with a super-low latency, and it does -- sort of. That is to say that, although some of you will probably laugh at me, I still want to get the latency lower.

Right now, I'm getting about 5-7 milliseconds. That might seem miniscule, but I can FEEL it. And it is worse when I try to use Kontakt 2, and in particular, with the pianos and violins. These use DFD, so I'm experiencing some pops and clicks in my audio, unless I dumb down the buffer size, which of course introduces even more latency.

I COULD buy the Muse Research Receptor, but I can't be guaranteed that this will fix my problem. And it just seems like a huge waste of money, on something that still feels a bit kludgey to me.

Again -- if there is anyone here on this forum who knows a thing or two about setting up your computer, please don't hesitate to post a response. I really need help with this.

Thanks.

The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.
http://www.sammyjames.com
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SammyJames
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Last Chance, VillaNova...

Post by SammyJames »

So anyway. This is the last time that I will post about this. If seriously no one has any info, then it's okay. I have gotten the latency down somewhat by reinstalling the HD audio driver, but I still want a better computer.

- Sammy

The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.
http://www.sammyjames.com
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Artemiy
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Re: Help...

Post by Artemiy »

Sammy, give Macs a second try, I am serious. I have gone through the Windows -> Linux -> Mac OS X path and I have no intention to be biased. Hardware + software integration is simply amazing.
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SammyJames
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Re: Help...

Post by SammyJames »

Artemio:

You know (or I hope that you know) how much respect I have for you and for your opinions. Tell me this: If I do buy a Mac (and this is PURELY hypothetical) what kinds of audio cards would I use? Do you really use the output from the stock sound card that comes with the Mac? Is there a Mac on the planet that has S/PDIF out? Coaxial or optical? Or am I asking for too much there...?

As far as the latency issues, you say that the Mac has no latency issues. I am inclined to believe you, but again -- right now I'm using an M-Audio card with my PC, because ITS stock card SUUUUCKS...

Anyway, let me know. Thanks.

- Sammy

The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.
http://www.sammyjames.com
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Artemiy
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Re: Help...

Post by Artemiy »

Sammy, yes, I am saying it jokes aside, and I do mean I want to help you. And thanks for the respect ;-)

On all Macs since 2006, you get S/P DIF optical in and out out of the box which is really great. The built-in card gives me about 10 ms latency which I am pretty happy with.

However, with a FireWire card in the $400-500 range you'll be able to get into 2-3 ms range with zero setup (our Nathan Sheldon reported this latency with a MOTU card). If you didn't have enough time to work on that iBook you once had, I'll remind you that there is no audio setup on the Macs except for bit depth, sample rate, aggregate devices and a few other settings. CoreAudio is low latency priority out of the box. You will never make a complex GUI make a hiccup in your audio. MIDI setup is also fun, see yourself.

The main and most important advantage of Mac OS X over Windows is not here, however. It's in it's kernel, which is based on FreeBSD - a UNIX system which is probably the most hardcore among those used for servers and even satellites (please believe a guy which worked for 2 years as a UNIX systems developer). It's so much better at handling system resources, working with USB/FireWire devices, and kicks especially with multiple-core systems (Windows sucks at this).

All in all I want you to take it seriously.
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SammyJames
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Re: Help...

Post by SammyJames »

Artemio:

I'm totally takiing you seriously. I wouldn't even ask if I didn't care enough to listen to what you have to say. The problems that I have with Macs, right now, is that they are STILL way-too-expensive!!!

(I know, I know... I could save more money in the long run by buying something NOW that will do what I need...) But in the short run, I literally just can't afford to buy anything over about $1,000. Period. I'm on a fixed income (the details of this are way too much to get into here) but let's just say that two heart operations later, I'm still struggling a bit financially.

On a brighter note, I have been to Sweetwater where they are showing the new PowerMac G10 (only kidding there...) but really -- the latest desktop Macs look impressive. With the ability to upgrade to 16 Gigs (yes -- that is GIGS) I would be hard-pressed to top one of those. I could buy an Apogee Symphony card and enjoy 1.6 ms of latency, which is what they advertise.

Anyway, this is all food for thought. I'm going to save my money up for a few months, and NOT upgrade my current PC. It is a great computer, but I'm going to keep my eyes (and my mind) open.

Thanks. You are the best, my friend. I will continue this conversation for a bit.

- Sammy

The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.
http://www.sammyjames.com
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Artemiy
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Re: Help...

Post by Artemiy »

Well, Sammy, my income is a fraction of yours, and I was able to realise Macs are well worth their price. I am not suggesting you a Mac Pro - this thing is too much as for me, unless you really earn a lot with music. I have a 17" dual-core 1.83 GHz Intel iMac with 2 GB RAM and it works great (I got it for $1900 here vs. $1500 in US). Though maybe in a while I'll be upgrading to a 20" version and a faster CPU, this is a fine system for audio. You can get a FireWire card which will not be so much slower than a PCI-Express one (3 ms vs. 1.6 ms - come on).
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SammyJames
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Re: Help...

Post by SammyJames »

Dude -- I hear you -- BUT two things:

1. Without knowing how much (or how little) money I make, you have no idea whether you make more or less than I do, and --

2. As for the 3ms vs. 1.6ms of latency, there IS a difference.
I'm not saying that I'm THAT good -- yet -- but the point is that if you spend as much time as I do practicing the keyboard, it becomes apparent very quickly how much latency can be an issue. 10 ms is HUGE, and I can feel that without even trying. And as for the 3ms issue, well... let's just say that what drove me to this forum (and to distraction) was that I was getting about 3ms or so.

I have gotten it down to about 2.125, but that is only with soft synths. I won't even use Kontakt until I get a better processor.

Finally, I still can't afford to buy another computer right now. Conceivably I could sell the Spectral, but I'm just going to save up my funds and wait a few months. It isn't like I have anything pressing to do right now, so I'm just going to take it easy for a bit, have fun with the computer that I own now, and wait to see what happens in about six months. There are constant innovations in computer technology, so I'm imagining that eventually, it probably won't matter what kind of computer you get.

Who cares if the OS "sucks" at dealing with a Quad-core? I mean, there can't be any way that a super processor like that won't munch through just about anything that you can throw at it.

This brings up an entire other discussion that I plan to start now... under the title "When is enough enough?"

- Sammy

The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.
http://www.sammyjames.com
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