One possible client is requesting this parameters and I am a little over my head ..
I have some amator mixing experience but... maybe I can't understand right the requests:
Reference level: –20 dBFS
Peak level: –10 dBFS
Dialogue level (dialnorm): –27 dBFS
Mix level: 105 dB SPL
the only thing I understand is peak level... (the maximum level on that track should be -10 dB)
but the rest is too much =))
Dialog level I presume is the Voice Over level...
But reference and Mix level ?
Can some one please explain me what they are?
How can I measure and what to measure for those requests?
Many thanks
Reference level and mix level SPL ????
Re: Reference level and mix level SPL ????
Mixing your first DVD/TV project?
What your client wants to know is that your desk is calibrated to reference levels for film production. -20dbFS corresponds to 0VU at the outputs, typically metered at 85db/SPL in your listening position. This gives the mix level a maximum of 105db/SPL.
Bob Katz is a great resource for learning how to set all this up. If you are unfamiliar with the K-System, he developed that as a standard for mixing/mastering a variety of material. The nice part is once you have everything calibrated correctly you don't have to worry about the meters anymore. You can let your ears do all the work.
I'm not so familiar with Dialnorm(dialogue normalization?), or how it works exactly, but it's a standard for Dolby audio compression. Again the goal is to maintain a common reference point - specifically of the dialogue levels.
So to accomplish this, essentially you just need a somewhat precise SPL meter with a C-weighted scale. The rest of your gear should already be in place, waiting to be dialed in.
What your client wants to know is that your desk is calibrated to reference levels for film production. -20dbFS corresponds to 0VU at the outputs, typically metered at 85db/SPL in your listening position. This gives the mix level a maximum of 105db/SPL.
Bob Katz is a great resource for learning how to set all this up. If you are unfamiliar with the K-System, he developed that as a standard for mixing/mastering a variety of material. The nice part is once you have everything calibrated correctly you don't have to worry about the meters anymore. You can let your ears do all the work.
I'm not so familiar with Dialnorm(dialogue normalization?), or how it works exactly, but it's a standard for Dolby audio compression. Again the goal is to maintain a common reference point - specifically of the dialogue levels.
So to accomplish this, essentially you just need a somewhat precise SPL meter with a C-weighted scale. The rest of your gear should already be in place, waiting to be dialed in.
Re: Reference level and mix level SPL ????
Many thanks...
Yes, it is about mixing DVD projects.
We only did betacam until now.
Meaning recording, mixing, and rerecording on other betacam with the new soundtrack.
My problem is now that even if we mix with a maximum peak at -10dB, and with voices at maximum -27dB, the say it is not ok, that the peaks are not at -10dB, and the voices are to low.
They don't want to give as a "sample" of what they need
Anyway, many thanks, I was aware of the calibration, but the client doesn't know nothing and they insist that the reference is not at -20dB.
How can they measure that on a mixed track , I don;t know...
Yes, it is about mixing DVD projects.
We only did betacam until now.
Meaning recording, mixing, and rerecording on other betacam with the new soundtrack.
My problem is now that even if we mix with a maximum peak at -10dB, and with voices at maximum -27dB, the say it is not ok, that the peaks are not at -10dB, and the voices are to low.
They don't want to give as a "sample" of what they need
Anyway, many thanks, I was aware of the calibration, but the client doesn't know nothing and they insist that the reference is not at -20dB.
How can they measure that on a mixed track , I don;t know...
Re: Reference level and mix level SPL ????
the client doesn't know nothing and they insist that the reference is not at -20dB.
It's funny you said that because I really wanted to ask. Who knows, maybe it is their first DVD project too!
Either way, good luck convincing them you know what you're doing. I think, yes, these parameters should be somewhat expected. Two calibrated systems should provide a similar reference - that's the whole point.
Dialnorm is a compression setting applied at the authoring stage and processed on playback. If you do a quick search you'll see there are settings (1-31) which is (-30db - Unity Gain). -27db could be referring to RMS(not peaks). I'm uncertain why the spec says (db) at all. As I said, I'm not an expert, yet it doesn't make much sense to me. -27db would be a dialnorm setting of 4. I also saw a recommendation of -4db, which would be dialnorm setting of 27.
Re: Reference level and mix level SPL ????
As I think...
The client is too at their first dvd.
But the "big client" (our client is an intermediary I suppose) have those conditions.
Anyway, I did make those settings , with the Voice Over that have maximum peak at -18dB and the middle goes around -27dB as request.
I was a perfect mix for them...
So the -27dB is actualy the peak value for constant "talking", above are only screaming, or load voices, but maximum was -18dB.
Anyway, the -10dB peak is actually the Music &Effects maximum peak.
So an explossion will be at that peak.
Many thanks again, I wish you the best...
The client is too at their first dvd.
But the "big client" (our client is an intermediary I suppose) have those conditions.
Anyway, I did make those settings , with the Voice Over that have maximum peak at -18dB and the middle goes around -27dB as request.
I was a perfect mix for them...
So the -27dB is actualy the peak value for constant "talking", above are only screaming, or load voices, but maximum was -18dB.
Anyway, the -10dB peak is actually the Music &Effects maximum peak.
So an explossion will be at that peak.
Many thanks again, I wish you the best...
-
BrotherBear
- Posts: 2
- Joined: 09:24, 24 December 2010
Re: Reference level and mix level SPL ????
Te rog sa ma scuzi, sper sa ajunga aceasta intrebare la tine...
Am vazut ca te-ai lovit de aceeasi problema de care ma lovesc eu astazi, cu exceptia ca al nostru client nu ne-a indicat de la inceput aceste limite si noi am facut deja dublajul si mixul in parametrii pe care ii faceam de obicei.
Evident ca ei au venit apoi spunand ca nu e bine ce le-am dat , ca ei vor in parametrii indicati si de tine.
Problema e ca nu vor sa ne plateasca pana nu le dam sunetul cum vor si oamenii care au lucrat asteapta banii, ca de , vin sarbatorile...
Am refacut sunetul in -20 dBFS cu varfurile in -10 dBFS dar problema e ca nu stiu ce inseamna sa le dau un vol de mix 105 dB...
Daca citesti acest text te rog din suflet sa ne dai o mana de ajutor...
Iti multumesc
Am vazut ca te-ai lovit de aceeasi problema de care ma lovesc eu astazi, cu exceptia ca al nostru client nu ne-a indicat de la inceput aceste limite si noi am facut deja dublajul si mixul in parametrii pe care ii faceam de obicei.
Evident ca ei au venit apoi spunand ca nu e bine ce le-am dat , ca ei vor in parametrii indicati si de tine.
Problema e ca nu vor sa ne plateasca pana nu le dam sunetul cum vor si oamenii care au lucrat asteapta banii, ca de , vin sarbatorile...
Am refacut sunetul in -20 dBFS cu varfurile in -10 dBFS dar problema e ca nu stiu ce inseamna sa le dau un vol de mix 105 dB...
Daca citesti acest text te rog din suflet sa ne dai o mana de ajutor...
Iti multumesc
-
BrotherBear
- Posts: 2
- Joined: 09:24, 24 December 2010
Re: Reference level and mix level SPL ????
Te rog sa ma scuzi, sper sa ajunga aceasta intrebare la tine...
Am vazut ca te-ai lovit de aceeasi problema de care ma lovesc eu astazi, cu exceptia ca al nostru client nu ne-a indicat de la inceput aceste limite si noi am facut deja dublajul si mixul in parametrii pe care ii faceam de obicei.
Evident ca ei au venit apoi spunand ca nu e bine ce le-am dat , ca ei vor in parametrii indicati si de tine.
Problema e ca nu vor sa ne plateasca pana nu le dam sunetul cum vor si oamenii care au lucrat asteapta banii, ca de , vin sarbatorile...
Am refacut sunetul in -27 dBFS cu varfurile in -10 dBFS dar problema e ca nu stiu ce inseamna sa le dau un vol de mix 105 dB...
Daca citesti acest text te rog din suflet sa ne dai o mana de ajutor...
Iti multumesc
Am vazut ca te-ai lovit de aceeasi problema de care ma lovesc eu astazi, cu exceptia ca al nostru client nu ne-a indicat de la inceput aceste limite si noi am facut deja dublajul si mixul in parametrii pe care ii faceam de obicei.
Evident ca ei au venit apoi spunand ca nu e bine ce le-am dat , ca ei vor in parametrii indicati si de tine.
Problema e ca nu vor sa ne plateasca pana nu le dam sunetul cum vor si oamenii care au lucrat asteapta banii, ca de , vin sarbatorile...
Am refacut sunetul in -27 dBFS cu varfurile in -10 dBFS dar problema e ca nu stiu ce inseamna sa le dau un vol de mix 105 dB...
Daca citesti acest text te rog din suflet sa ne dai o mana de ajutor...
Iti multumesc