Help Please?

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DEVO-UK
Posts: 154
Joined: 21:14, 16 August 2011

Help Please?

Post by DEVO-UK »

Hey

I've just purchased one of these and my initial view is one of disappointment. I hope that changes. Apart from some guy called Mike Acosta showing how to use with Pro Tools, there appears to be little in the form of support videos/tutorials for the product.

I'm trying to establish a working process to import my songs from Logic pro into Sonic Cell for live backing tracks.

I have created one midi file and it plays in Sonic cell, but the tracks are all over the place e.g. Drums are track 1 in my Logic file, but end up as track 10 in Sonic cell. Okay, so some editing to change the tracks and sound patches, but am I doing this correct?

Should they line up as they are in Logic?

I've had a go at trying to use Sonic Cell as a sound module in Logic, but gave up. The pdf's from Roland appear dated and I can't get this to happen.

All the promotional stuff brags of this being easy, and I'm quite clued up on Logic, Mainstage etc... but this may have to go on eBay.

Can anyone please point me in the right direction to get some simple and up to date tuition/help on using this product.

It would be appreciated.
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PauloF
Posts: 4201
Joined: 02:35, 16 January 2006
Location: Lisbon, Portugal
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Re: Help Please?

Post by PauloF »

DEVO-UK wrote:Hey

I've just purchased one of these and my initial view is one of disappointment. I hope that changes. Apart from some guy called Mike Acosta showing how to use with Pro Tools, there appears to be little in the form of support videos/tutorials for the product.

I'm trying to establish a working process to import my songs from Logic pro into Sonic Cell for live backing tracks.

I have created one midi file and it plays in Sonic cell, but the tracks are all over the place e.g. Drums are track 1 in my Logic file, but end up as track 10 in Sonic cell. Okay, so some editing to change the tracks and sound patches, but am I doing this correct?

Should they line up as they are in Logic?

I've had a go at trying to use Sonic Cell as a sound module in Logic, but gave up. The pdf's from Roland appear dated and I can't get this to happen.

All the promotional stuff brags of this being easy, and I'm quite clued up on Logic, Mainstage etc... but this may have to go on eBay.

Can anyone please point me in the right direction to get some simple and up to date tuition/help on using this product.

It would be appreciated.
Well...did you read all the tutorials in his order?
http://cms.rolandus.com/assets/media/pdf/SCWS01.pdf

http://cms.rolandus.com/assets/media/pdf/SCWS02.pdf

http://cms.rolandus.com/assets/media/pdf/SCWS05.pdf

They are quite clear (I think).

Regarding the MIDI channels to be used, MIDI channel 10 is normally used for Drums and as MIDI channel 2 is normally used for BASS, but those are just mnemonics...
You can change them in Logic or in the SonicCell. Use what suits you better.

If you decide to do it in SonicCell, consider the use of the SonicCell Editor, where you can do VERY EASILY all those modifications with a visual and clear interface.

On the Editor image check that I've changed the Part1 to play triggered by MIDI channel 2. It's that easy.

SonicCell is perfect for what you want...it's just a matter to get acquainted :-)
I hope this helps
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SonicCell Editor - MIDI Assignments
SonicCell Editor - MIDI Assignments
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rcraven
Posts: 629
Joined: 14:36, 9 September 2007
Location: Melbourne Australia

Re: Help Please?

Post by rcraven »

If you have a standard way of working in Logic eg Drums channel 1, Bass channel 7 etc then you can set up a 'Performance' with the Parts set up just how you like it , save it and always use that for your work.

Use the PC/mac editor and set the Mode (up the top left) to PERFORM.
Part 1 (which the factory has set to channel 1) to be a rhythm part with the CATEGORY button above the Chorus knob.
Set Part 10 to anything you like now that you are not using it as the rhythm channel.
Set up a rough mix and the pan position and a standard instrument for each part.
eg I always have an acoustic bass ready to go, but it is often changed to something else.
Now save it as "Standard Song" or some such thing in USER PERFORMANCE 1.

Press the Menu button o the SC and go to System
Find 'Power Up Mode' and set it to PERFORM - exit out of the System menu and the option to the left is WRITE. Press this to write the System changes you have just made.

Now when you turn the SC on it will ready for you to start working.
Load in a SC Patchname list in to Logic so you can change the patches to what you want.
Save the Midi file out of Logic OR record the output of the SC to an audio track in Logic and save that as a wave (16bit 41kHz - CD quality guaranteed to work)
You can now save and arrange either Midi files or Wave files onto a USB stick and get the SC to play them live.

When you save the Midi file out of Logic it will put any changes you have made in the mix, patches, pan position etc into the file at the start before the song starts playing..
Once you have started playing a song, the performance will keep those changes until you reboot or change the Performance.
So to get back to your standard Performance just change the Performance on the SC to User 2 then back to User 1 and you are good to go again.

To make sure your song is the way you think it should be when playing live it might be a good idea to put the 'resetting of the performance' in the start of the song.
When you are in Performance mode changing the performance is done by a Midi patch change message usually on channel 16 (this is the factory default channel)
So make a Midi track in Logic and put in a patch change 2, then patch change 1 on channel 16 at the beginning of the song.

Royce
DEVO-UK
Posts: 154
Joined: 21:14, 16 August 2011

Re: Help Please?

Post by DEVO-UK »

Thanks guys

Soooooo helpful

Appreciated.
DEVO-UK
Posts: 154
Joined: 21:14, 16 August 2011

Re: Help Please?

Post by DEVO-UK »

Thankyou both for your advice. I have made great progess with this today. If I can explain what I have done to date, and then ask what you feel the next step should be, considering my overall live set up.

I have started with a new logic file and assigned the instruments in the mixer window in The SC editor i.e. Drums in 1, Bass in 2 and so on. It sounds great and works fine with no pull at all on the CPU.

I'm currently using the SC as the output to my powered monitors, but also have a Motu ultralite if needed.

I now need to consider my overall requirements for live, as I will have a Roland AX synth, a CME midi controller (to either play a sound in SC or a plug in) and vocals.

One option I'm thinking of is to stick with Logic for live work as I can route the vocals through it and I also have some songs with a selection of midi and audio tracks (I've stripped samples from the covers I'm doing e.g. the opening synth wurry bit fron Gary Numans' Cars and the precussion beat on Tears For Fears' Mad World), although Im happy to drop the songs with audio samples in if I get a better overall live solution.

I can then Firewire to the Motu and add the AX, CME and vocals using additional sequencer tracks.

It would be really great however if I could just use the SC with the midi files and bang the vocals, Cme and AX through it but that's not possible.

Another option would be to have the midi files played via the SC and put the vocals, CME and AX through the Motu via firewire (using Logics Mainstage2) and the SC via the Motu using two stndard inputs.

Weighing up the pros and cons, the only limitation with Logic live would be the time it takes to load each song, as it takes a while to link the SC mixer/editor. I'd also have to have the Motu as the main output source, as the vocals, CME and AX cannot go through the SC.

As I will need the Motu anyway, it sort of makes sense to play the midi files in SC and bang the vocals, AX and CME through Mainstage2.

I'd really appreciate any ideas/feedback you guys have on the two options.
DEVO-UK
Posts: 154
Joined: 21:14, 16 August 2011

Re: Help Please?

Post by DEVO-UK »

Update:

I have just created the midi file and played it directly from the SC and all the settings are as in Logic. Awesome.

So I could run the midi files through the SC ( through the Motu ) and put the vocals, the AX and the CME through Mainstage2. I'm excited lol

As I have this first song all as I want it, I could keep this logic file as a song template, as Im happy with the same kit, strings, piano, etc for most of the songs. It also gives me consistency with levels if I maintain the same kit at the same level and mix everything to that.

So I have a further question. I'm planning on doing Hurts 'Wonderful Life' and Tubeway Armys' 'Are Friends Electric' as the first two songs.

Im thinking of putting them both in the same Logic file as I have 16 tracks in total, which is enough for both songs. There is however a tempo change. Will the midi file recogmise this when I import into the SC?

I'm in business if it does.
rcraven
Posts: 629
Joined: 14:36, 9 September 2007
Location: Melbourne Australia

Re: Help Please?

Post by rcraven »

DEVO-UK wrote: I now need to consider my overall requirements for live, as I will have a Roland AX synth, a CME midi controller (to either play a sound in SC or a plug in) and vocals.

One option I'm thinking of is to stick with Logic for live work as I can route the vocals through it and I also have some songs with a selection of midi and audio tracks (I've stripped samples from the covers I'm doing e.g. the opening synth wurry bit fron Gary Numans' Cars and the precussion beat on Tears For Fears' Mad World), although Im happy to drop the songs with audio samples in if I get a better overall live solution.
The SC can't play an audio file AND a Midi file at the same time.
The SC can play an audio file AND play Midi.
The SC can play an Midi file AND play Midi .
I use the SC with a Yamaha WX5 clarinet like Midi wind controller while playing tracks.
If I have vocal harmonies I simply record the whole thing to audio and mix down to a complete "audio less one player" file and play along. I have a mic into the back of the SC (using the internal reverb) and mix out to a small PA
The advantage in having Midi files is that they are much smaller so you can have a lot of files, but I can take a few usb sticks with me so I mainly use audio.
Using audio means you know exactly what it going to sound like.
The problem is that it is fixed, rigid. You can't change it, but in most cases this is not a problem.
If you want to stop and start a song so you can have solos of undetermined length a midi file is best.
I use a midi pedal (Yamaha MFC10) that blends my WX5 midi with foot controlled patch changes as well as Start, Stop and Continue messages.
So, as you can have Midi and audio files on the same USB stick, this is easy.
DEVO-UK wrote: I can then Firewire to the Motu and add the AX, CME and vocals using additional sequencer tracks.

It would be really great however if I could just use the SC with the midi files and bang the vocals, Cme and AX through it but that's not possible.
Nearly possible.
You can have the CME into the Midi In like I have my WX5
The Vocal mic can be in the XLR connector (with phantom power if needed)
The AX audio into the Line in. Use the AX volume control along with distance from the mic for balance between the vocal and AX. Easy when you get use to it.
If you want to control the SC sounds from the AX and the CME you will need to get a Midi merger, like the one from MidiSolutions (so you don't have to swap Midi cables.)

I'd leave my computer at home. Make sure you have lots of USB sticks with backups of files.
I've never needed backups, but when you don't have them is when you will need them.

All the best
Royce
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