Help! Recording in SONAR LE

[tjf_inc]

Hi guys,

I need your help. I tried recording a midi track with my RD700GX and SONAR LE and was sucessful. However, i dont know what to adjust to reduce the latency. can anyone please help me?

Also, i wanted to record the sound the RD700 produces and not the midi sound.

Ex. I wanted to record a song using the Supernatural Voices or other E.Pianos.

How can i do this? Any Advice please!!

Thanks a lot!!

[dbijoux]

Generically speaking, there are many things you can do to increase your computer's performance when working with a DAW or audio software. I don't have any links handy(google to the rescue), but optimizing windows for performance(no fancy window effects, etc), stopping any other programs from running at the same time, setting your processor to background services(start menu:control panel:system properties:advanced tab:performance settings:advanced:processor scheduling), and stopping any of the services you don't need runnning in the background; those are a start and maxing out the RAM is never a bad idea.

As for recording audio, you probably will want to look into a preamp/firewire/usb/pci interface as an input for your signal. You could plug directly into your soundcard, but the quality may not be so gratifying. Like most everything, adding this may also introduce more latency considerations.

[tjf_inc]

Hi dbijoux,

Thanks for your reply. i appreciate it!

I somehow managed to download an instrument file for RD700GX and was able to import it to SONAR LE.

I added a midi track

I set the inputs and assign the bank/patch as GX Strings.

My GX is connected to computer via USB (so i have input of Roland RD Midi in). I set the channel to 1.
My output Microsoft GS Wavetable

When i play my keyboard, i dont hear anything at all, but its recording.

Basically what i wanted was when i play, i could hear the GX strings.

Did i miss out something here?

Please see this link.

http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.asp?m=1527 ... X&#1527337

same as what i wanted to do, only, he was able to figure it out. I got the .INS from what he posted and made settings like his' but still to no avail

Please, anyone help. I spent sleepless nights figuring this out.

Thanks a lot!

[dbijoux]

Quite welcome.

You might have missed one thing, in Sonar, under 'Options' - ''MIDI Devices' -> Output, do you see your Roland? Make sure that is selected and moved to the top.

It sounds like you've found your way through the Tracking window. Just to make sure tho, you should double check the "O" or output on the individual track and make sure it is set to your Roland too.

As for the Microsoft GS, that would be your computer sound card, basically you rather want to route the MIDI data back out to your RD700.

Also, on that note, I don't have a RD so I don't know the screens on the board, but there should be a 'Local Switch' in your MIDI setup. You will want to make sure this is off when tracking MIDI through Sonar. That way, your RD only plays the notes it gets through Sonar and won't cause any doubling or other such funkiness.

The .ins files are nice, in that you have the list of instruments from the RD right in your tracks.

Hope that helps, enjoy your naps when you can

[tjf_inc]

Hi dbijoux

Once again, thanks for your reply! I really appreciate all the help.

As you said, I checked the Outputs:

Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth - Topmost (selected)
4-Roland RD - (Selected)

Microsoft Midi Mapper (Not Selected)
4-Roland RD MIDI OUT 1 (Not Selected)
4-Roland RD MIDI OUT 2 (Not Selected)

My input

4-Roland RD (Selected)
4-Roland RD MIDI IN (Not Selected)

I turned off the Local switch in my RD.

It worked great. I get to hear the sound through my RD and record it as a midi track.

However, I still cant make the sound go out through my computer's speakers (I already tried to interchange the outputs).

As i play along (while recording Midi), the sound i hear is routed back to my RD. (this was my only option)

Then i added an Audio Track to record the midi track (hoping that when i export it as WAV, i would hear something by then)

I set the Stereo Mix - Realtek High Def as my input
Then output to my speakers (Realtek High Def)

Selected the Audio track, then Export -> Audio.

Saved it as .WAV.

Upon playback, there was no sound at all.

Tried saving as RIFF Wave, Broadcast Wave and WMA.

Still no luck.

I think there's still something wrong with my setup perhaps.

If you have time, please, I have attached a screenshot of my project so you may know where im coming from.

Again, dbijoux, Thanks for all your help!

[Nik_]

You need to connect the audio outputs of your keyboard to the audio inputs of your computer.

MIDI is not audio.

USB MIDI is not USB audio.

[dbijoux]

Glad to hear you have the MIDI signals working better. As Nik said tho, MIDI and Audio are not one in the same. MIDI is basically raw note data for the RD or another synthesizer telling it to make a sound.

MIDI = Musical Instrument Digital Interface
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midi

Similar to the MIDI track you setup, when you, " set the Stereo Mix - Realtek High Def as my input. Then output to my speakers (Realtek High Def)," you were setting the track to record input from the Realtek High Def device and output to the Realtek High Def device. Realtek is the internal sound card that came with your computer.

I'm not familiar with USB Audio on the RD, so I can't help much with that.

Moving into the audio side of the equation depends a lot on what you want to accomplish. The simplest way is to plug directly into your sound card's mic input with a 1/4" to 1/8" adapter. However, you'll only be recording MONO and the quality probably won't be superb.

Rather, I'd suggest looking into a Firewire, USB or PCI card audio interface. They start around $200. With that, you should get stereo inputs, much better A/D conversion, and a balanced xlr input for a mic - the start of your home studio!

[tjf_inc]

Hi dbijoux,

Thanks for the help once again!

I understand what you mean by difference of MIDI and Audio.

However, it is possible to

record a Midi track as an Audio Track then Export it as WAV.

This was what i was trying to do. Apparently, its not working for me.

As i believe, this is the cause:

- I have setup the output back to my RD700 ( Local Switch off, output back to the keyboard)

- Im using the (Stereo Mix or Wave Out/What you hear as they call it) as my Audio Input. (found in control Panel -> Sound -> Recording Tab)

Whatever is output to the speaker is used as input for my audio track

- Since the output is to my keyboard, and not to the speakers, i only get a flat line upon recording. (though i hear the midi track playing on my RD700, its still not output to my speakers, so nothing happens)

I can assume that this is the case since i tried the next scenario and it worked.

- Recorded Midi Track (output Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth, can hear it through speakers)

- added Audio Track, recorded midi as Audio.

This worked

What i dont understand is:

Though i already have the Instrument Definition, I cant make it sound through my speakers. However, if i try to use the "Boring" Piano sound (usually the default piano Midi sound), i can hear it come out of my speakers.

Isn't the Instrument Definition supposed to replicate the sounds of my RD and at least hear them out of my speakers?

If only i can make the sound (Strings, Supernatural E. Piano, etc.) come out of my speakers! (Not back to my RD!), im pretty sure that i could record it as Audio and eventually export it as wav.

My case is really disappointing. I cant seem to figure out what im missing here.

Thanks Again

Thanks also Nik for your reply.

[da-man]

In sonar you need to select a midi channel (1-16) for each track.

[tjf_inc]

Hi da-man,

Yes, i selected a channel.

I assigned 16 channels to RD700GX instrument

Then i assigned channel 1 to the midi track, i also tried to use other channels, still no luck on making it sound.

Thanks!

[dbijoux]

Thanks for the help once again!
- Quite welcome, it sounds like you are making good progress in understanding!

However, it is possible to record a Midi track as an Audio Track then Export it as WAV.
- No, not simply like that. (see below)

Though i already have the Instrument Definition, I cant make it sound through my speakers. However, if i try to use the "Boring" Piano sound (usually the default piano Midi sound), i can hear it come out of my speakers.
- Yes, it's quite a boring sound because it is being created by your Microsoft GS synthesizer. Calling the .INS file an instrument 'definition' is a slight confusing.

Isn't the Instrument Definition supposed to replicate the sounds of my RD and at least hear them out of my speakers?
- No, it is simply a reference file for Sonar's patch list to 'define' what voices your keyboard has available. For example, I have the Juno-G, I load my .INS file and it tells me that bank 1 - patch 1: Juno Grand, etc. Without the .INS file Sonar would only label like bank 1 - patch 1 - with no name. It is confusing, but the .INS is essentially a set of labels, a database of patch names. If you open the file with notepad you'll see what I mean.

If only i can make the sound (Strings, Supernatural E. Piano, etc.) come out of my speakers! (Not back to my RD!), im pretty sure that i could record it as Audio and eventually export it as wav.
- I can see why you want to do that, but no, it's not possible(with MIDI alone). Those wonderful sounds are a result of Roland's fine engineers making lots of magic underneath your RD's exterior. It's a combination of synthesizer hardware and patch settings that make Supernatural E. Piano possible.

My case is really disappointing. I cant seem to figure out what im missing here.
- Nah, don't be disappointed, it's certainly not hopeless. You still have the beautiful piano and are learning all about MIDI and Audio Recording. Maybe frustrating, but when you look back it will make sense like hooking up your vcr?

As for missing something, maybe it's a good idea to completely forget about MIDI for a moment. In fact, you should delete Microsoft GS wavetable synthesizer from your Sonar menus all together.

The other side of the chain is Audio Tracks. Setup a new project in Sonar just for Audio tracks. Now, all you need to do is plug your RD700 into your soundcard. I would track live to get a feel of how Sonar works on the Audio side.

Eventually, you'll get to a point where you can combine the MIDI and Audio chains into a single project. It will take some wizardry routing the signals, but it can be done.

Of course, this all depends on what your goal is.

[tjf_inc]

Hi dbijoux,

Thanks for your patience!

I am more enlightened now.

That INS got me really confused.
You are right, i checked it in notepad.
I can't believe i was expecting much from it. LOL

With all your help, im more knowledgeable now (than before, few days back). Thanks!!

You're right, i should forget that Microsoft GS and get the feel of the audio side. Cool!

However, you mentioned earlier that the soundcard can record only Mono. Hmmm.. i guess i can do with that for now.

Audio interface is cool, Sadly, spending much for me now isnt a top priority as i just spend so much for the RD and the amp just recently. LOL

I have a question though,

I have this "guitar cable" at home, will that work for my RD too? (As you know, Im new with all the electronic stuff).

If not, what type of cable should i look for?

Thanks once again for your help.

Expect some posts from me once i start checking out the Audio side! (Hope you're still that patient by then hehe)

[dbijoux]

Welcome again, I'm happy to be of help.

There is a forum here called Studio Zone that might give you some more insights as well. Also, many many websites on the studios and audio engineering depending on how far you want to get into recording at home.

I'd definitely suggest getting a 'good' audio interface. Most likely, your soundcard only has a single mono mic input. The major concern, of course, is sound quality, but it should work while you familiarize yourself with Sonar and such.

I hear you on the $$$, but I think it's not a bad thing to take it in stages. Then when you are ready and already have experience recording you'll be able to appreciate it even more.

Yup, your guitar cable should work with an adapter. It's an unbalanced cable, so it might pick up some electric noise, but you should be ok.

When you do look at audio interfaces, you might want to use the XLR outputs on your RD instead. Those are balanced lines and will reduce interference. Of course, equates to even more money but you will get an exceptional signal.

Happy music making!!!

Oh and make sure to take a look at the Sonar help file, as there is no manual, they put it all in there.

[tjf_inc]

dbijoux,

thanks for the info, I'll check that forum as well as the help file.

Youre right, i really need a good audio interface. I'll get myself one soon. for now, i'll familiarize myself with Sonar and recording with the soundcard.

I use an XLR cable to connect my RD to my KC550 amp.

I'll be off to get an adapter and perhaps try the audio recording later this week.

Ill keep you posted on how im doing. Thanks again!