NEW FANTOM-G - THREAD #2

[V-CeeOh]

OK so here is the Fantom G thread #2.
Like I said on Thread #1, I decide on starting this one cause #1 was getting too big. So in order to avoid more posts like "where is the hardrive?" or "how many effects are there" I'm kinda making a compilation of what's already been talked to aloud new comments/questions. I'll be using The Audacity Works posts as I considered excelent from a "user" point of vew (thanks again). Please forgive me if something is missing and go back to THREAD #1 for further information

NEWCOMERS: Please take sometime to READ before ask.

[V-CeeOh]

The specs are the the same for all the 3 models except for keyboard size, overall size and weight.
These ones are for Fantom-G8
So here is, again, the Official information as from Roland.com

Keyboard and Sound Generator Section
Keyboard : 88 keys, PHA II, Ivory feel, with velocity and channel aftertouch
Mamimum Polyphony:128 voices, shared with the sampling section
Parts: 16 parts (Internal) + 16 parts (External) + 2 parts (ARX)+ 24 parts (Audio Track)
Wave Memory: 256MB (16-bit linear equivalent)
Waveforms: 2,153
Preset Memory:Patches 1,500 + 256 (GM2), Rhythm Sets 64 + 9 (GM2), Live Sets 512, Studio Sets 128
User Memory per one project: Patches 512, Rhythm Sets 64, Live Sets 512, Studio Sets 128
Effects: Patch Multi-Effects (PFX) 16 systems, 76 types, Multi-Effects (MFX) 2 systems, 78 types, Chorus 1 system, 3 types, Reverb 1 system, 10 types, Input Effects 1 system, 6 types, Mastering Effects 1 system, 3-band compressor
Data Format: 16-bit linear, .WAV or .AIFF
Sampling Frequency: 44.1kHz
Maximum Sampling Time: [When sampling memory isn't expanded (32MB)] mono: 360 sec. approx., stereo: 180 sec. approx. [When sampling memory is expanded with DIMM (544MB)] mono: 108 min. approx., stereo: 54 min. approx.
Number of Samples per one project: 2,000

Sequencer Section
Tracks: MIDI tracks (Internal/External/ARX): max. 128, Audio track: max. 24, Tempo track: 1, Beat track: 1
Resolution: 480 TPQN
Tempo: 5.00 to 300.00
Song per one project: 50
Phrase per one project: 2,000
Note Capacity per one project: approx. 1,000,000 notes
Song Length: 9,998 measures
Recording Method: Realtime recording, Step recording

Controllers
Pitch Bend/Modulation Lever, Control Knob x 4, Control Slider x 8, Assignable Switch x 2, D Beam Controller

Connectors
Headphones Jack, Stereo 1/4 inch phone type, A (MIX) Output Jacks (L/MONO, R), 1/4 inch TRS phone type, B Output Jacks (L, R), 1/4 inch phone type, Input Jacks (L/MONO/MIC, R), 1/4 inch phone type, Mic./Guitar Input Jacks, 1/4 inch phone type / XLR type (Phantom power)(Hi-Z), Pedal Jacks, Hold Pedal Jack (Half Pedal recognition), Control Pedal Jack, (assignable) x 2
MIDI Connectors: IN, OUT, THRU
USB Connectors: USB Computer Connector (supports file transfer or mass storage class, and Audio/MIDI), USB Mouse Connector
Digital Audio Interface: COAXIAL INPUT / OUTPUT
AC Inlet:

Others: Arpeggiator 128, Arpeggio Sets 128, RPS Sets 32, Rhythm Pattern Sets 32, Chord Memory 128, Chord Memory Sets 128

Display: Graphic Type, 8.5", Wide VGA (800 x 480 dots), backlit LCD (Color)

Pads: 16 pads, Velocity and Polyphonic Aftertouch sensitive

Expansion for sound generator: : ARX expansion boards: 2 slots

Expansion for sampling memory: : DIMM: 1 slot, supports PC133, CL=2/3, 3.3 V, 128MB, 256MB, 512MB

External Storage Device: USB Flash Memory

Power Supply: AC 117 V, AC 230 V, AC 240 V (50/60Hz), AC 220 V (60Hz)

Power Consumption: 30 W

Accessories: Owner's Manual, CD-ROM (Editor, USB MIDI driver), Power Cord

Options: Expansion Board: ARX Series, Keyboard Stand: KS-V7 (Fantom-G7/-G6), KS-18Z (Fantom-G8/-G7/-G6), KS-G8 (Fantom-G8), Pedal Switch: DP series, Foot Switch: BOSS FS-5U, Expression Pedal: EV-5, USB Flash Memory: M-UF1G, M-UF128, Microphone: DR series, Headphones: RH-series

Size and Weight
Width: 1,396 mm/ 55 inches
Depth: 502 mm/ 19-13/16 inches
Height/ 183 mm/ 7-1/4 inches
Weight:32.0 kg/ 70 lbs. 9 oz.

[V-CeeOh]

DETAILS

Reaching New Levels of Power and Luxury
Introducing the most powerful and luxurious live workstation in Roland history. The Fantom-G8 is a dream instrument that redefines the boundaries of playability and creativity with its advanced sound engine, revolutionary ARX SuperNATURAL™ expansion bay, large-sized color LCD, powerful new audio/MIDI sequencer, first-class “Ivory Feel” weighted keys, and more.

- Advanced sound engine with double wave capacity of previous flagship workstation
- 2 x ARX expansion with SuperNATURAL — the world’s greatest performance-expression technology
- Graphic user interface with extra-large 8.5” wide color LCD and mouse connectivity
- Newly developed onboard audio/MIDI sequencer with 128 tracks including 24 audio tracks
- Multi-FX for each part; up to 22 effects routings can be programmed simultaneously
- Top-of-the-line keyboard action; weighted PHA II “Ivory Feel” keyboard
- Heavy-duty casing with aluminum panel

Advanced Sound Engine
Driven by a powerful new audio processor, the Fantom-G provides new sonic depth and versatility. With twice the wave-ROM capacity of its predecessor, it contains a treasure trove of Roland’s world-famous SRX-quality sounds, but what really sets this instrument apart is its new ARX expansion, which allows additional SuperNATURAL sound-sets and fully dedicated synth and effects engines to be added to this already powerful live workstation.

SuperNATURAL ARX Expansion
Fantom-G provides ARX slots that accommodate two SuperNATURAL expansion boards. SuperNATURAL is Roland’s unique behavior-modeling technology that enables a new level of organic, emotional expression previously unattainable in synthesizers. Applied to traditional-instrument sounds, SuperNATURAL enables the delicate, organic tonal changes and playing nuances of real musical instruments. It’s also a powerful tool for electronic and non-traditional sounds, breathing amazing new life and expression into synthesis.

Power Sequencer Onboard
The Fantom-G is the first Roland instrument to feature Roland’s newly designed power sequencer. In conjunction with the large-size LCD, this pro-level composition tool provides 128 tracks (including 24 audio tracks) in a fully intergraded audio/MIDI graphical environment. A mouse can be also incorporated for computer-like speed and ease. Other convenient features include combo XLR and TRS connector, phantom power for condenser mics, Hi-Z input for guitar and bass, and line input.

Luxurious Extra-Wide LCD
One look and touch and you’ll know that the Fantom-G is an instrument without equal. Only the highest-quality materials have been used to create this dream synth, with a stylish, futuristic design that will turn heads. Front and center is the extra-large 8.5” wide TFT color LCD for enhanced productivity. A first-class assortment of handson controls is provided as well, including eight sliders, four knobs, and ten buttons below the LCD.

Amazing FX
Fantom-G is loaded with a state-of-the-art effects engine, with multi-effects available for each Fantom-G sound/part. In 16-part multi-timbre mode, up to 22 effect routings can be used simultaneously. Create complex setups with 16 insert effects per patch, plus global reverbs and choruses. Mastering effects are provided for polishing songs created with the onboard sequencer.

Supreme Keyboard Feel & Action
The Fantom-G8 is outfitted with Roland’s top-of-the-line PHA II “Ivory Feel” keyboard. This amazing keyboard technology reproduces the real surface feel of ivory acoustic piano keys providing a familiar stability and comfort to the pianist. The white keys have a 2-piece structure which reduces the surface ‘click’ noise when playing. The newly developed keyboard surface material is designed to absorb moisture, ensuring a secure, slip-proof feel that your fingers will love.

[V-CeeOh]

Now the most importants FAQs as The Audacity Works posted:

I also was disappointed to see the menu button still there. I thought it was gone. I hope that it no longer brings up that sprawling list of functions that overflows the older Fantom's screen and makes accessing parameters at the bottom of the list...
I think the Menu remembers the last mode selected, so if you were last in the System Menu, pressing MENU automatically highlights the System Menu. Press ENTER and you're there. Oh, and the ENTER button still accesses any parameter's value list, even though it's not labeled ENTER/LIST. Yes!

Do you remember if you want to simply turn effects on-off, does that bring up that totally stupid sub screen that freezes out all other onscreen functions until you exit it, like current Fantoms? That, and it's cousin- the tone on-off/select screen that does the same damage- are the two most infuriating things about the Fantom OS... things that the older XPs did effortlessly because they had dedicated front panel buttons.
The Pad modes include both tone select/tone switch buttons and FX bypass switches. They're not dedicated buttons, but it's about as close as one could get.

So I guess the old Fantom-S/X patches/performances will not be compatible with the new G.
Others have complained that there are any recycled waveforms at all. You people have to make up your minds! Somehow the Fantom-X was able to load XV-5080 patches, but it's impossible for every Roland keyboard to be compatible with the previous keyboard's patches—The Fantom-G would have millions!

Really interesting would be how the fantom integrates in to a software sequencer. Does it stream the audio on seperate channels?
Roland didn't have any of the Gs connected to a computer. I assume it's like the Sonic Cell or SH-201, where the VSTi/AU acts as a SysEx editor and the audio streams (stereo only) into a separate aux channel (or if you have Logic, an instrument track with an External Instruments plugin instanciated).

Did you get to demo the new piano? Thoughts? New Rhodes? What about Wurly sounds?
There was a new "New York" piano (whatever that means). But again, it's impossible to critique any nuances with that cacophony. What I heard sounded great (notably better than the X), but most of my observations were from both the Roland guys there (unbiased of course ) and other passers-by who must have better hearing than I. The sound is always the first thing anyone mentions. I also overheard other companies' employees praising the sound.
Again, in a nutshell, it sounds like a really clean, open, punchy Fantom. If you hate the sound of Fantoms, you'll probably still hate the G.

If the G had more than 2 paltry slots - more like 6 or 8, it could have had the potential to compete with the multi-synthesis ability of the OASYS (Physical modelling, FM, VA, etc.), since ARX boards are whole synths.
I'm suspecting there are only two slots because ARX cards are entire synths. That data still have to be accessed by the rest of the unit, and there's only so much data that can be shuttled around. Besides, we may not see new ARX boards for another year or so. How long has it been since the last SRX board? Over two years?

I mean, it doesn't record audio directly to hard drive or Flash memory. You must reload the audio tracks to memory, which is a big NO NO for MIDI and Audio. Imagine loading 24 tracks of audio.... it will take forever.
You can't timestretch audio tracks/samples when they stream in realtime from disk (at least at the workstation DSP-level). Each project can store 50 songs, which is like the Fantom-X and MV-8x00—all samples are loaded at once. This lets you switch quickly from song to song. HOWEVER, if you don't have to switch songs live, simply create a new project for every song. 544MB of samples/audio tracks per song. Best of both worlds. And I was told that loading projects from USB 2.0 keys is almost as fast as a slow hard drive (they'd never put a 7200 or 10k RPM drive in a workstation). "Way faster than on the X" they said.

On computer DAW systems like (Sonar, etc.) the wave moves and it makes for editing that is faster and good for visual thinkers. If you are a listener then the process may not be too bad.
The screen redraws when recording audio are near-instantaneous. And the waveforms are pretty high-resolution in the Song Edit screen. They don't scroll. Scrolling is turned off by default in most DAWs.

Will it have dedicated EQ on each track?
If you assign each part's insert FX to an EQ, yes. But then that defeats the purpose of having an FX on each part. If it's anything like the X, many of the FX types have some sort of simple tone control.

Will it have anologue functions like Oscillator sync, pwm, etc?
Couldn't check on that. I quickly spun through the patch edit screens and they looked to be very similar (at least function-wise) to the X.

Will the loading times for samples etc be speeded up?
Yes.

Will it have true 128 note polyphony and not 16 if you use heavy structure waveform,patches?
The Fantom-G has the same 4-stereo-tone structure as the other Fantoms. "True polyphony" depends on who you talk to. I don't think any of the S or X patches utilize all 4 stereo tones, at least not simultaneously.

Will I be able to save one song with its own samples audio tracks?
Yes, if you save the song to its own project. Each project also stores its own 128 user Single patches, 64 Live Sets, and 64 Studio Sets.

Will I be able to insert the expansion boards without the aid of a block and tackle and a small workforce and still get the base covered in scratches?
I assume so, because it was incredibly easy in my dad's Fantom-S88 (and I assume the X).

I see it only has 2 sets of stereo outputs! bummer.
Attempting to hit a price point, most likely.

[V-CeeOh]

24 tracks would make that 544 megs disappear like David Blain was using it Do i need to say anything else?
It's enough to record a 4 minute song with all 24 tracks playing at once. If you add the 16 internal parts and the 2 ARX parts, that's one busy-ass mix. I remember creating crazy tracks with 2MB of RAM. But I hear ya'.

What I don't understand is why in this day in age we only have a maximum 544 MB, when my ipod has 30 gig? What would be the logic behind this thinking in workstations?
Because when using an iPod, there's no need to trigger 128 songs simultaneously with 22 effects processors and realtime timestretch?

Okay some here have said "It's not a DAW" then why would they go as far as going to a rediculously 24 tracks if they aren't trying to market it as one?
When one creates a software DAW, they're building on the resources of Microsoft, IBM, Intel, Apple, and/or any number of third-party companies. Collectively, this is BILLIONS of dollars and MILLIONS of man-hours. An embedded OS (like that in all digital music gear) is optmized for specific processors, and absolutely, positively cannot be compared. Part of the reason the OASYS is so expensive is that Korg decided to incorporate a computer utilizing open-source technology. This is extremely difficult, results in all sorts of expensive technology licensing, and oftentimes, bugs and computer-related problems (like latency, DSP overloads, etc.) run rampant. The Korg guys seem to have done quite well, the Mackie guys (Digital X-Bus woes ), not so much.

The way I used to record before Logic, 544MB was enough to record dozens of songs. If you're recording 24 tracks all the way through, you're absolutely, positively in the market for Logic or ProTools.

"No streaming audio? my sp-404 streams without any problem from compact flash, so why not that technic in the G6?"
Because the SP-404 is a completely different sampling engine. The SPs also compress their samples quite a bit, and the SP-404's polyphony is only like 6 stereo voices total. The SP-606 sounds better, but its polyphony is only 4 stereo voices. RAM is MUCH faster, at least from a sampling standpoint.

"In my opinion, 4 stereo audio tracks streaming from flash drive are better than very limited length 24 tracks. The time spent loading the audio tracks will be unbelievable, unless Roland has improved the load speed. Can you ask them how long does it take to load 512MB audio into memory?"
Roland said "The load speed is much faster than on the X" (their emphasis). They may not have quantitatively measured it, but it should be faster than loading from any keyboard-level hard drive (just not as fast as streaming from hard disk, which introduces its own load delays, because the pointer system event list has to be accessed. The VS-2480—Its load times are long too).

"Roland is making all these excuses about being complicated, and expensive...etc. Alesis Fusion does 16 audio tracks from hard drive, Triton 2 did 4 tracks from hard drive, SP-606 does 4 stereo tracks from hard drive"
Huh? Roland's not making any excuses at all. Unless stuff's in quotes (as above), this is all me, my observations, and how I understand keyboard design—not Roland. Besides, even if I went off on a 5,000 word essay on how and why the sky is blue, some schmo would ask—on the very next post—"Is the sky orange? It should be ORANGE!" It's all getting a bit fatiguing at this point. If this turns into a clusterf#$k like all those OASYS threads in HC, I'm out.

"I think although it needs to interact with a studio set up and be able to interact with a DAW its not designed to be a replacement for a DAW.It's a LIVE instrument first and foremost."
That's the way I see it too. If someone expects their KEYBOARD to do everything including being Logic, ProTools, Reaktor, and Gigastudio, they really need to just shut the hell up and buy a damn computer. Like I did.
I'll say it one more time: The Fantom-G, Motif, M3, and OASYS are ROMpler workstations. They're not DAWs.

Are the audio tracks part of the 128 or on top?
I thought 128 included the 24 audio tracks. Nope, 128 MIDI tracks plus 24 audio tracks.

Will throwing a 1GB RAM chip hurt anything?
No, and there's nothing keeping one from trying it (other than wasting money). It just might not work and might not display the correct amount of memory (even though it may still be accessible). Roland said "what we officially support and what's doable aren't necessarily the same thing." Indeed, I seem to remember some people getting the MV-8000 to see 1GB of RAM as well.

Can I assign multiple MFX processors to single patches or single parts?
Right now, it doesn't look like it. In fact, I couldn't get parts within Live Sets (where the FX switching is seamless) to assign to the two extra MFX processors at all. Things might change, but right now, it seems to be one MFX per part, with the two extra MFX processors (plus reverb plus chorus/delay plus input MFX) for the audio tracks.

[V-CeeOh]

What's the sequencer resolution?
I didn't have a chance to check this out. I'm guessing it's still 480ppq. However, I did notice that the tempo has a .01 BPM resolution now (it was single BPM in the X). Cool.

Is the color the same?
I didn't see any Fantom-Xes lying around to compare, but from what I remember the X looking like, yeah. They look to be the same shade of silver. I really wish they would've gone V-Synth black. The V is sexy as hell.

How many tracks are there in pattern mode?
I couldn't access pattern mode. I did notice the term "phrase" a lot, and it appeared one could select a MIDI object, save it as a phrase, and then paste/insert it onto other tracks in other locations.

Can you still record multiple channels worth of data on a single track?
Don't know; the event list wasn't fully functional on the particular model I was checking out.

Do the ARX boards really add polyphony? If so, how much?
The ARX boards are processors/synths themselves, so they add polyphony and multitimbrality to the rest of the G. As for how much, I was told "it depends on the ARX board and what's currently running". One thing I noticed was a little DSP meter for the electric piano card that certainly reacted to my playing, but it didn't seem related to how many notes I played at all. In fact, it would jump around a bit even when holding one note.

Can you tell us a bit more about how SuperNatural works? What kind of synthesis is it?
Roland was a bit tight-lipped about this one. Presumably, each card is a bit different, but the Electric Piano appears to at least use some sort of modeling technology, as you can change preamps and cabinets. You can even choose the age/condition of the Rhodes (from 1 to 5, whatever that means). I wanted to hear the complete lack of velocity switching on the drum card, but the floor was way too noisy to confirm this, even on headphones.

How are parts organized?
In the Fantom-X, if you wanted a part to, say control a Virus, you'd have to set it to either external or both. With the G, you get sixteen dedicated external parts on top of the sixteen internal parts and two ARX parts. Each external part gets its own volume, pan, and program/bank changes. So it's way easier to incorporate external modules now.

[V-CeeOh]

The Fantom G dedicated site "Fantom Experience" is HERE
The first oficial video at Roland US is HERE. More will certainly follow.
Still Learning sent us some videos, Thank you . They are temporarily at http://bin.fantomized.info. Artemio promised us some work on this so be patient.
Artemio also already talked about the G and when Artemio talks, we listen . Go HERE

[vonhaulshoven]

I want all three models

[Quinnx.]

Here are a few FAQ`s yet to be answered

did they fix the bugs

1) double notes when using rps in pattern record

2) can you enter the Sampler page without having to stop playing your sequencer to do so.

3) do all rps patterns still stop when you scroll up or down in pattern editor

4) does switching between song mode and pattern mode stop all current rps patterns

5) can you enter the rps page without having to stop the sequencer.

6) does the sequencer in song mode record rps performances exactly as they are performed or does it still just copy the data from each pattern and ignore the performance as it was played.

7) can you enter record mode in the sequencer without having to stop it playing.

8) when in the sample page and you are sampling what is being played, does the sequencer still stop when you stop sampling.

9) Overall how much more access (if any) do you have to all other pages while in play/record mode, or is there the same limitations as the X?

10) Have a Guess? (FS)

11) can you now select tempo other than whole numbers like 120.56 instead of only 120.0 or 121

12 Metronome: can it be routed to B or anything other than A

[Autobot]

Some patches organs in Motif XS can be modified by its 8 sliders that more or less emulate Hammond' drawbars (that are 9 in the real organ)... Does the same function happens with the 8 sliders in Fantom G?

[cuborg]

is the key action/size in G6/G7 models identical like on X6/X7 ?

[piaknowguy]

Hey Autobot!

I would suggest that we are going to be pleasantly surprised by the features that Roland introduces with the new ARX expansion boards!! How about a dedicated Organ expansion with drawbar capability?!!! =) My guess is that it WILL be coming!!

Cheers!
PiaKnowGuy

http://www.piaknow.com

[Mauro Rosati]

I'm think it too piaknowguy, I can buy it just for this.

[rezfactor]

Q: Per-track fader control "memory?"

[Solitary man]

I truly hope that they have a anologue synth board waiting in the wings. Lets face it SRX-07 Ultimate keys was a big dissapointment, for me anyway. It seemed to be a step back from the SR-JV80-04 Vintage synth board I had in my JV2080. Which at the time was pretty good and still has some great patches on it.

There's no excuse now seeing how the Fantom G has 8 sliders and 4 knobs to go crazy with.

Lets see now;
32 note poly
2 lfo's
2 adsr
pwm
oscillator sync
ring mod
lpf,bpf,hpf all with resonance and to be able to go into self oscillation.
pink, white, noise

Ah sod it just stick a jupiter 8 clone in there.
If this was the case I would sell my Fantom X right here right now and get the G.