The VZ-10M you got me!
Fantom G (What it should have been and it's Specs)
Re: Fantom G (What it should have been and it's Specs)
I played the six-track!
The VZ-10M you got me!
The VZ-10M you got me!
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The Audacity Works
- Posts: 1012
- Joined: 19:02, 15 November 2007
- Location: Hollywood, CA
Re: Fantom G (What it should have been and it's Specs)
lang1977,
Your dream G7 Photoshop was very cool. Sorry for the threadjack post, but as soon as I got to the "512 polyphony" part, I was pretty much done.
You do realize that extra polyphony is one of the most expensive elements to add to a keyboard, right? And that the end user will always pay for any extras added, even if he doesn't need them?
Quadrupling the polyphony of the Fantom-G could very easily add $1000-1500 or more to the end user's price. The goal was obviously to match the Korg M3's price point, which, if you understand markets and competition, is really the only possible place Roland could've attempted to place the G and still sell the maximum amount of units. No one's in business to make lang1977 happy, except for maybe your mom, and only if she's a homemaker and you're an only child.
With that in mind, what are you willing to give up to gain, say, another 128 voices? You don't just get more polyphony; you have to sacrifice something major, because the Fantom G7 has to hit that magic price point.
Would others rather have a smaller touchscreen with lower resolution or a larger, hi-res, mouse-driven screen? The cost is probably somewhat close.
If access to 2GB of RAM costs the same as the four knobs and two user switches, would you be willing to give them up?
Would you be willing to dump ARX expansion for hard disk pointer-based audio recording and a couple of extra inputs?
Would you rather have 22 simultaneous effects processors where 16 are hardwired to the internal parts or 11 processors that could be freely assigned anywhere (and therefore, negate the new patch remain feature)?
These are the questions that manufacturers and designers have to ask themselves all the time.
Chances are Roland started out with something like your G7 (or even better), but simply couldn't cram everything in and still sell it for what it needs to sell for. So stuff got tossed out.
I'm just pissed they removed the naked midgets. >8>(
Your dream G7 Photoshop was very cool. Sorry for the threadjack post, but as soon as I got to the "512 polyphony" part, I was pretty much done.
You do realize that extra polyphony is one of the most expensive elements to add to a keyboard, right? And that the end user will always pay for any extras added, even if he doesn't need them?
Quadrupling the polyphony of the Fantom-G could very easily add $1000-1500 or more to the end user's price. The goal was obviously to match the Korg M3's price point, which, if you understand markets and competition, is really the only possible place Roland could've attempted to place the G and still sell the maximum amount of units. No one's in business to make lang1977 happy, except for maybe your mom, and only if she's a homemaker and you're an only child.
With that in mind, what are you willing to give up to gain, say, another 128 voices? You don't just get more polyphony; you have to sacrifice something major, because the Fantom G7 has to hit that magic price point.
Would others rather have a smaller touchscreen with lower resolution or a larger, hi-res, mouse-driven screen? The cost is probably somewhat close.
If access to 2GB of RAM costs the same as the four knobs and two user switches, would you be willing to give them up?
Would you be willing to dump ARX expansion for hard disk pointer-based audio recording and a couple of extra inputs?
Would you rather have 22 simultaneous effects processors where 16 are hardwired to the internal parts or 11 processors that could be freely assigned anywhere (and therefore, negate the new patch remain feature)?
These are the questions that manufacturers and designers have to ask themselves all the time.
Chances are Roland started out with something like your G7 (or even better), but simply couldn't cram everything in and still sell it for what it needs to sell for. So stuff got tossed out.
I'm just pissed they removed the naked midgets. >8>(
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SammyJames
- Posts: 1118
- Joined: 23:48, 18 April 2003
- Location: USA
- Contact:
Re: Fantom G (What it should have been and it's Specs)
Well, this is completely off-topic, but the VZ-10M was Casio's answer to the DX7. It was an FM synth that had a particularly lush sound. And I was mistaken in my last post -- I meant to say that my college friend had a Six-Trak and a VZ, not the (way-more expensive) Matrix.
Roland actually has managed to blow away most of these old synths. In particular, I wouldn't think twice about selling a Six-Trak and a VZ-10M to buy a Fantom. On the other hand, I have sold EVERYTHING, and I now use VST plug-ins.
And on the subject of polyphony, there will probably never be a hardware workstation with more than about 300 voices max. That describes the Alesis Fusion, which can, according to its specs, play back about 272 voices in sample-playback mode. That is impressive -- although I would buy 128 ROLAND voices over 272 ALESIS voices any day of the week.
Tell me that I'm nuts. I know that I'm nuts. But hey -- someone has to guard the acorn stash...
- Sammy
Roland actually has managed to blow away most of these old synths. In particular, I wouldn't think twice about selling a Six-Trak and a VZ-10M to buy a Fantom. On the other hand, I have sold EVERYTHING, and I now use VST plug-ins.
And on the subject of polyphony, there will probably never be a hardware workstation with more than about 300 voices max. That describes the Alesis Fusion, which can, according to its specs, play back about 272 voices in sample-playback mode. That is impressive -- although I would buy 128 ROLAND voices over 272 ALESIS voices any day of the week.
Tell me that I'm nuts. I know that I'm nuts. But hey -- someone has to guard the acorn stash...
- Sammy
Re: Fantom G (What it should have been and it's Specs)
Newly developed onboard audio/MIDI sequencer with 128 tracks including 24 audio tracks
16 parts (Internal) + 16 parts (External) + 2 parts (ARX)+ 24 parts (Audio Track)
Now lets see 16 + 16 is 32
32 + 2 = 34
34 + 24 = 58?? what happen to the other 70 sequencer tracks?
I must be missing something?
16 parts (Internal) + 16 parts (External) + 2 parts (ARX)+ 24 parts (Audio Track)
Now lets see 16 + 16 is 32
32 + 2 = 34
34 + 24 = 58?? what happen to the other 70 sequencer tracks?
I must be missing something?
Solution:
Roland release a new product:
FANTOM G ARX
has all the functionality of the fantom G engine including its 128 poly
and hey just buy 2 and you now have at least 384 poly more mfx Than you will every need and 72 track audio.
FANTOM G ARX
has all the functionality of the fantom G engine including its 128 poly
and hey just buy 2 and you now have at least 384 poly more mfx Than you will every need and 72 track audio.
Re: Fantom G (What it should have been and it's Specs)
SammyJames,
L8r,
Arjan
Just had to tell you that I'm listening to the first disc of that very album while reading your comment. I only have the double CD version but my brother has the old vinyl version with the booklet inside with all that great artwork. Wonderful stuff.My favorite music from those decades is stuff like Jeff Wayne's "War of the Worlds"
L8r,
Arjan
Re: Fantom G (What it should have been and it's Specs)
@ audacity
Your dream G7 Photoshop was very cool.
That was my thought as well. I would without any hesitating spend 100-200 $ more for such a cool blue design...
Your dream G7 Photoshop was very cool.
That was my thought as well. I would without any hesitating spend 100-200 $ more for such a cool blue design...
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toom driver
- Posts: 131
- Joined: 23:41, 25 July 2003
- Location: UK
Re: Fantom G (What it should have been and it's Specs)
Most importantly - I think it sounds great ......
Just listen to the moduation and effects on this patch >
Just listen to the moduation and effects on this patch >
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toom driver
- Posts: 131
- Joined: 23:41, 25 July 2003
- Location: UK
Re: Fantom G (What it should have been and it's Specs)
Most importantly - I think it sounds great ......
Just listen to the moduation and effects on this patch >
Just listen to the moduation and effects on this patch >
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The Audacity Works
- Posts: 1012
- Joined: 19:02, 15 November 2007
- Location: Hollywood, CA
Re: Fantom G (What it should have been and it's Specs)
"That was my thought as well. I would without any hesitating spend 100-200 $ more for such a cool blue design..."
lang1977's Photoshop was this one:
http://forums.rolandclan.info/pub/attac ... ntomG7.jpg
My favorite tweak was the placement of the ARX and sampling buttons above the navigation buttons/Value dial. Roland really should've done that.
And the front-panel MIX IN knob should've been retained from the X as well.
If I were to mess with the controllers at all, I'd add 8 smaller rotary encoders instead of the four knobs.
lang1977's Photoshop was this one:
http://forums.rolandclan.info/pub/attac ... ntomG7.jpg
My favorite tweak was the placement of the ARX and sampling buttons above the navigation buttons/Value dial. Roland really should've done that.
And the front-panel MIX IN knob should've been retained from the X as well.
If I were to mess with the controllers at all, I'd add 8 smaller rotary encoders instead of the four knobs.
Re: Fantom G (What it should have been and it's Specs)
All of the current Fantom X patches
All of the SRX patches
All of the new patches
Everything else they are including is fine with me.
All of the SRX patches
All of the new patches
Everything else they are including is fine with me.
Re: Fantom G (What it should have been and it's Specs)
"lang1977's Photoshop was this one: ..."
Oh, referred to the wrong one. Somebody had posted a nice blue one, have forgotten where...
Oh, referred to the wrong one. Somebody had posted a nice blue one, have forgotten where...
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thunderkyss
- Posts: 837
- Joined: 07:38, 21 May 2003
- Location: Port Arthur,TX
Re: Fantom G (What it should have been and it's Specs)
Are you playing all this live when you hear these drop outs??I can't understand why the polyphony isn't greater. I'm using the X7 and when I layer Piano,Strings,electric Piano and split left for bass, I can here notes dropping off. 128 Polyphony cannot work anymore..
Look, I'm not trying to defend Roland or anything, but Polyphony costs money. If you have the Piano & Strings part down pretty good, Sample it, play it back, and play the EP parts live.
Now, I'm not saying the FantomG is perfect, I've got a few wishes of my own.
An extra midi port or two would be real handy with that 128 part sequencer.
Then they've got to do something with the phrases, & arpegios. Which the Motif & Triton have been kicking Roland butt on for a few years now.
If they can find something like Karma... that would be cool.
And if they end up making an ARX card that would put a bonafide VA synth in the FantomG.... that would be sweet.
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SammyJames
- Posts: 1118
- Joined: 23:48, 18 April 2003
- Location: USA
- Contact:
Re: Fantom G (What it should have been and it's Specs)
Arjan:
They are going to kill me for posting so completely-off-topic, so I'm going to continue this thread in the Free Zone. Feel free to join me there if you like.
- Sammy
They are going to kill me for posting so completely-off-topic, so I'm going to continue this thread in the Free Zone. Feel free to join me there if you like.
- Sammy
Can I play too?
Keyboard: 76 keys, Progessive Hammer Action w/Automatic Variable Tension Adjustment plus velocity and channel/polyphonic aftertouch
Polyphony: 1024 voices, shared with the sampling section
Parts: 32 parts (Internal) + 48 parts (External) + 8 parts (ARX)+ 24 parts (Audio Track)
Wave Memory: 8GB (16-bit linear equivalent)
EFFECTS
Patch Multi-Effects (PFX): 64 systems, 76 types
Multi-Effects (MFX): 64 systems, 78 types
Chorus: 4 systems, 3 types
Reverb: 4 systems, 10 types
Input Effects: 16 systems, 6 types
Mastering Effects: 1 system, 7-band compressor
Data Format: 24-bit linear, .WAV, .AIFF, .MP3, OggVorbis
Sampling Frequency: 192kHz
SEQUENCER
Resolution: 1920 TPQN
Tempo: 5.00 to 300.00
Songs per one project: 256
CONTROLLERS
Pitch Bend/Modulation Lever AND Wheels
Control Knob x 8 WITH LED COLLARS!
Control Slider x 16 MOTORIZED AND CONTACT SENSITIVE!
Assignable Switch x 6
D Beam Controller x 2
Suck knob x 1 set to minimum setting
CONNECTORS
TRS outs x 8
ADAT lightpipe x 2
MIDI IN x 2, OUT x 3, THRU
USB 2.0 & Firewire 400 Computer Interface Connectors (supports file transfer or mass storage class, and Audio/MIDI and *8SimRModule)
USB Mouse Connector (Should Have A Touchpad Mouse)
1 COAXIAL INPUT / OUTPUT & 1 OPTICAL INPUT/ OUTPUT
Cupholder >> Optional
OTHER
Imports VST and AU plugins with no authorization
Arpeggiator: A trillion billion
Arpeggio Sets: A trillion billion
RPS Sets: A trillion billion
Rhythm Pattern Sets: A trillion billion
Chord Memory: A trillion billion
Chord Memory Sets: A trillion billion
Display: Graphic Type, 15", Wide VGA (1024 x 768 dots), backlit LCD (Color) TOUCHSCREEN
Pads: 16 pads, Velocity and Polyphonic Aftertouch sensitive, MV-8000 SIZE
ARX expansion boards: 8 slots
Sampling memory: DIMM—4 slots, supports DDR3, CL=2/3, 3.3 V, 128MB, 256MB, 512MB, 1GB, 2GB, 4GB, 8GB
Internal Storage Device: 2TB HDD 10,000 RPM = Recording - Direct Streaming to Disk
Accessories: Owner's Manual, CD-ROM (Editor, USB MIDI driver), Power Cord, 24/7 free in-house tech support from a naked midget
Expansion Board: ARX Series, Keyboard Stand: KS-V7 (Fantom-G7/-G6), KS-18Z (Fantom-G8/-G7/-G6), KS-G8 (Fantom-G8)
Pedal Switch: DP series
Foot Switch: BOSS FS-5U, Expression Pedal: EV-5, USB Flash Memory: M-UF1G, M-UF128, Microphone: DR series
Size and Weight
Width: 50-3/8 inches
Depth: 16-3/16 inches
Height: 5-5/8 inches
Weight: 29 lbs. 7 oz. >> If it's too light you would need to strap it down with Velcro - I don't think so.
PRICE:
MSRP = $3,999
MAP = $3,499 - Add SKB Hardcase for $149.00 + for a limited time get a FREE ARX card of your choice with purchase along with a FREE Sustain Pedal! Also, FREE 2 year extended warranty BEYOND manufacturers 1 year included warranty. Limited time offer extends from 04-01-08 to INFINITY!!
Yeah! Now it's REVOLUTIONARY, not EVOLUTIONARY!
Polyphony: 1024 voices, shared with the sampling section
Parts: 32 parts (Internal) + 48 parts (External) + 8 parts (ARX)+ 24 parts (Audio Track)
Wave Memory: 8GB (16-bit linear equivalent)
EFFECTS
Patch Multi-Effects (PFX): 64 systems, 76 types
Multi-Effects (MFX): 64 systems, 78 types
Chorus: 4 systems, 3 types
Reverb: 4 systems, 10 types
Input Effects: 16 systems, 6 types
Mastering Effects: 1 system, 7-band compressor
Data Format: 24-bit linear, .WAV, .AIFF, .MP3, OggVorbis
Sampling Frequency: 192kHz
SEQUENCER
Resolution: 1920 TPQN
Tempo: 5.00 to 300.00
Songs per one project: 256
CONTROLLERS
Pitch Bend/Modulation Lever AND Wheels
Control Knob x 8 WITH LED COLLARS!
Control Slider x 16 MOTORIZED AND CONTACT SENSITIVE!
Assignable Switch x 6
D Beam Controller x 2
Suck knob x 1 set to minimum setting
CONNECTORS
TRS outs x 8
ADAT lightpipe x 2
MIDI IN x 2, OUT x 3, THRU
USB 2.0 & Firewire 400 Computer Interface Connectors (supports file transfer or mass storage class, and Audio/MIDI and *8SimRModule)
USB Mouse Connector (Should Have A Touchpad Mouse)
1 COAXIAL INPUT / OUTPUT & 1 OPTICAL INPUT/ OUTPUT
Cupholder >> Optional
OTHER
Imports VST and AU plugins with no authorization
Arpeggiator: A trillion billion
Arpeggio Sets: A trillion billion
RPS Sets: A trillion billion
Rhythm Pattern Sets: A trillion billion
Chord Memory: A trillion billion
Chord Memory Sets: A trillion billion
Display: Graphic Type, 15", Wide VGA (1024 x 768 dots), backlit LCD (Color) TOUCHSCREEN
Pads: 16 pads, Velocity and Polyphonic Aftertouch sensitive, MV-8000 SIZE
ARX expansion boards: 8 slots
Sampling memory: DIMM—4 slots, supports DDR3, CL=2/3, 3.3 V, 128MB, 256MB, 512MB, 1GB, 2GB, 4GB, 8GB
Internal Storage Device: 2TB HDD 10,000 RPM = Recording - Direct Streaming to Disk
Accessories: Owner's Manual, CD-ROM (Editor, USB MIDI driver), Power Cord, 24/7 free in-house tech support from a naked midget
Expansion Board: ARX Series, Keyboard Stand: KS-V7 (Fantom-G7/-G6), KS-18Z (Fantom-G8/-G7/-G6), KS-G8 (Fantom-G8)
Pedal Switch: DP series
Foot Switch: BOSS FS-5U, Expression Pedal: EV-5, USB Flash Memory: M-UF1G, M-UF128, Microphone: DR series
Size and Weight
Width: 50-3/8 inches
Depth: 16-3/16 inches
Height: 5-5/8 inches
Weight: 29 lbs. 7 oz. >> If it's too light you would need to strap it down with Velcro - I don't think so.
PRICE:
MSRP = $3,999
MAP = $3,499 - Add SKB Hardcase for $149.00 + for a limited time get a FREE ARX card of your choice with purchase along with a FREE Sustain Pedal! Also, FREE 2 year extended warranty BEYOND manufacturers 1 year included warranty. Limited time offer extends from 04-01-08 to INFINITY!!
Yeah! Now it's REVOLUTIONARY, not EVOLUTIONARY!