Any real reason to go up to the G?

Forum for Fantom-G6/7/8
BigBrotherMotown
Posts: 294
Joined: 08:15, 29 June 2006

WOW...

Post by BigBrotherMotown »

guys! snap out of it, your all pouring over this G likes it's the end of the world.
The new Akai MPC5000 offers GRID recording, PIANO ROLL recording, STEP recording, LINEAR recording and PATTERN recording.
The sequencer is 960 ppqn(twice as tight as the fantom motif and M3) and the user interface is streamlined to the hilt.
It has a built in virtual analog with 20 voices that can be used on as many parts as you like until the voices run out, it has a 80gig hardisk designed for 8 tracks of hardisk recording(more than enough) a built in DVD for data backup and a CD burner, compact flash typeII, ten analog outputs( yes thats right, ten!) ADAT lightpipe output,digital in/out,eight sliders and four knobs, and get this! 680mb's of PREMIUM quality UNCOMPRESSED sounds as standard.oh and the virtual analog has 300 top notch presets already programmed and i have heard it at NAMM and it absolutely rocks!it sounds better than the nord lead and access virus. As if all thats not good enough it provides a lethal sounding multiband master compressor that blows the fantoms away and a 4 band master eq that sounds friggin awesome.
Truly if these workstation companies can't get their heads out of their backside and do the right thing, instead of all this pennypinching and incompetence and holding out on us, then leave them hanging on the wall where they belong and reward the company that does the right thing, which in this case is Akai. Akaipro.com!

Man! the effects in the fantom are absolute crap, i own a fantom X. whats all this slicer, bitcrusher, vinyl emulator, bad sounding distortion, isolator and the rest of that useless bad sounding irrelevant junk.not to mention that the reverb is no where near up to pro standards.
the effects in the MPC5000 are the best i have ever heard bar none and there is no reason to even go near this fantom G. Move on guys and don't reward pennypinching and incompetence and spiteful brainlessness.
You mean to tell me it has ALL THIS and NO KEYBOARD!!!!

I guess it was ALMOST perfect then.......LOL
Radek
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Re: Any real reason to go up to the G?

Post by Radek »

There was "Foley" something on Motifator forums as well. This person was trolling by mindless criticizing anew XS and by constant saying how much better M3 will be.

Now it has to be Akai Vs Roland as it seems...
Septimo
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Re: Any real reason to go up to the G?

Post by Septimo »

lol...the m3...;)
foleycore
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Re: Any real reason to go up to the G?

Post by foleycore »

well actually bigbrothermotown, that simply means it is PORTABLE, a massive bonus i would have to say. The ultimate.
i mixed and programmed the fantom X to absolute perfection and it still sounded like crap, thats because it is crap. And the G ain't no different. Roland is using the same old technology they've used for years and giving you features you don't need cause it costs them nothing to include it. Get your blinders off guys and wake up, what the hell are you gonna do with 128 sequencer tracks?. You don't have to be Roland fanboys all your life. Yamaha korg and roland all compress their sounds and don't give enough features.
If the twenty four tracks on the G are to be used to their full potential then your gonna need more then 512mb's of ram. silly Roland!LOL. Roland and yamaha etc are a joke and i know that you all want a MPC5000 now that i've told you the specs and you have looked at it on their website.
common sense guys. Akai has given the goods and the rest haven't. stick with roland if you want, but thats your loss not mine.
the MPC will be out in March, thats how new it is. I've been burn't twice by Roland and i'll never touch their sh_t again.
Septimo
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Re: Any real reason to go up to the G?

Post by Septimo »

Hey foley, I hear you...No one should be kissing any companies a$$....You should find out what works best in your situation and go there...I agree, and preach that message here a lot,,I'm not one to have my nose up any companies britches,(bah! to all of them) ;)but some see it necessary to do so...I also agree to an extent about the G..No, its not a big deal to us X'rs but it will still be a great machine for anyone comming in....however if your FantomX is producing crap results, it's not the machine it's the programmer. no offense...edit your effects so you get your desired sound, don't just use a preset and hope for the best....although I know whats wrong with my X6 and I know it;s limitations, it sounds great when I program it cus I know what I'm looking for when I do. I use it for the good it does and leave out the bad...Heck, even my Rm1-x sounds dope when I program it (sometimes better than my X)and that's from 1998. again,,,I know what I want out of it and program it that way...It takes some work but If I continue on, I'll reach my goal, whatever it may be...But I seriously don't think that an Akai will help anyone here...If they cant produce on a FantomX, Akai is just gonna be another machine they can't produce on. And remember just cus you can;t get anything out of your Fantom after doing your best, does not mean everyone else shares your limitation. Again, no offense...
manishkurup
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Joined: 00:19, 23 August 2006

So let me get this straight ....

Post by manishkurup »

... We're now comparing a keyboard based workstation to a drum machine, and we're actually trying to defend the Fantom? Talk about comparing apples to oranges.

foley, no offense to you man, just looked up the MPC5000 specs (giving you the benefit of doubt here), and .... Are you serious dude???

You're comparing a machine that has 64MB RAM total (expandable to 192MB) to something that can be expanded to a Gig of RAM?

And the effects? WOW ... again, are you serious?

I agree with Septimo ...

"But I seriously don't think that an Akai will help anyone here...If they cant produce on a FantomX, Akai is just gonna be another machine they can't produce on."

But Im glad you love your AKAI so much ... and glad you got away from the Fantom.

Me? Im finding the Fantom more than sufficient for my needs!!

Peace ...

;) Manish
Jimknopf
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Re: Any real reason to go up to the G?

Post by Jimknopf »

This kind of talk about the MPC5000 leads nowhere, comparing apples and oranges, while obviously not showing the slightest clue about the fundemental layout difference between a device like the Akai and the workstation concept, *not* belonging to the same class of instruments.

It would be ok just to have fun with some of the really nice features of the MPC5000 and tell it here. And no problem if you are into a kind of music which has to do - I will pronounce it as polite as possible - more with sampling and some very elementary and limited synth lines than with any real keyboarders job. Just have fun with it.

But you don't want to tell real keyboarders, who need a broad diversity of bread-and-butter sounds plus a lot of special sounds, plus a lot of live usability in their sound switching, plus a certain kind of sequencing usability, that they should go playing gigs with an MPC 5000 as main instrument or to use it as core of their studio gear???

The rest is just boasting, like could be seen in another post of this kind in this forum, where another silly remark was made, this time comparing the MPC synth with the full fledged Clavia and Access synthesizers and claiming the built in Akai5000 VA synth was better. LOL

Obviously this person had no clue either, not knowing that there is *nothing* special at all about this synth, just being a plain simple, well known Alesis synth engine with well known sound character, limited to 20 voice polyphony. That's surely more than enough for some people usiing three synth beeps and one bass hook line with their MPC5000. But it is certainly no gear for many keyboarders' live performance sounds or bigger studio projects. The Alesis sound is not bad, but also not much more: why do you think many people prefer Clavia or Access synth sounds and synth layout *by* *far* over Alesis synths, even though the latter are *much* cheaper?

So, foleycore, buy what you want and do with it what you want, no problem. I also don't mind comparisons in one forum with gear from other companies, if it is worth being called a real comparison.

But don't compare apples and oranges here, adding a lot of primitive flaming of whole companies (the kind of 'all sh... which is not my preferred Akai'). And don't tell us fairytales of what you seem to think is Akai wondergear. We can well compare and judge ourselves.

@manish: seems we had similar thoughts, but I saw your post only after I had written mine ;-)
The Audacity Works
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Re: Any real reason to go up to the G?

Post by The Audacity Works »

MPC5000? Sigh...

The MV-series has been out for what? Eight years? That's the best Akai could do?

I know a lot of people who were really excited about the new MV. All of them threw up their hands and either bought an MV or are switching to Logic or ProTools.

And this is coming from a long-time Akai user. S2800, S5000, MPC2000XL, DR4d, DR16, MPD16...

Direct-to-disk recording? Very cool. Analog modeling synth? Also cool, and it sounds good (tho' it's NOWHERE near Access or Nord-level—you're smoking crack). Three FX processors? Excellent. Tons of audio and MIDI outputs? Yeah, that's where they spank the MV.

World-class effects in the 5000? I didn't hear them personally, but man, Akai's effects have always sounded like complete ass—Maybe Alesis gave them their Wedge algorithms (which aren't bad, but nowhere near world-class)? Roland has been praised for years for having the best effects in any workstation.

The above features are all a big deal, but you'd think Akai would at least attempt to improve the workflow or sampler. Its file management is still just as inflexible, its editing is dog-slow, sample RAM is still proprietary and tiny in comparison, and arrangement is worse than on the MPC4000. And what's up with that small monochrome screen?

It was obviously made specifically for people wanting to upgrade their existing MPCs, not to sway any MV users or software guys sitting on the fence. Which is cool, but the writing's on the wall. Hip hop guys are generally tracking audio in ProTools LE rigs—what's to keep them from doing everything in the computer?

Akai had the chance to really push that thing over the top. They kinda dropped the ball, which is unfortunate, because I generally love Akai products. No VGA out? My DR16 had a VGA out over ten years ago. It's not like they didn't have the technology.
foleycore
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Joined: 04:14, 17 February 2008

Re: Any real reason to go up to the G?

Post by foleycore »

LOL it seems to me that Akai took inspiration from the above monikor!
The Audacity works! very simple.
you seem to have a few of your facts wrong.
For starters the VA onboard the MPC5000 was a joint venture between Waldorf and Alesis and it absolutely smokes. How do i know? I played it at NAMM, but the reason i know its better than the Nord Lead and Access Virus is cause i own both of them and will now be selling them cause the one in the MPC5000 covers all my needs.20 voices is enough for a bass line a pad a lead a hoover a stab and a couple extra sounds all simultaneously, but don't forget the onboard hardisk dude, for tracking which frees up the voices again.
The effects are all brand new and i heard them, and again they are by far better than the sh_t on the fantom X, how do i know, i own a fantom X!The fantom reverb is very ordinary and not world class. The phasers and flangers are thinnish and digital sounding, the distortion algorithms are crap and the rest are unuseable sh_t.
sorry to say but i don't smoke crack and the effects on the MPC5000 were right up there something wicked.
the master compressor and 4 band master eq was also a joint venture specifically designed by the Sony Oxford and waves team and the results prove it. The MPC5000 has four effects busses all of which provide access to two effects.

Small monochrome screen? LOL my Roland JX305 had a small monochrome screen, two lines times sixteen characters and i worked miracles with it. The one on the MPC is huge by comparison, and who gives a rats arse if it ain't color, thats not gonna make it sound any better is it!

are you people deaf dumb and blind or something.
i said this MPC5000 has 680mb's of PREMIUM QUALITY UNCOMPRESSED sounds for gods sake. That blows the fantom G into the lake you silly boy.

oh well if you guys think you've got it going on with your Fantom X or G well it looks like less competition for me, but i would rather you all wake up and wake up NOW!!!

the fantom G doesn't have a 80gigabyte hardisk, it doesn't have a 20 voice virtual analog that sounds absolutely stunning and it doesn't have a DVD/CD burner on board does it. Am i missing something here...?
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piaknowguy
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Re: Any real reason to go up to the G?

Post by piaknowguy »

Am i missing something here...?


Discretion perhaps! Oh . . . and maybe some propriety!

PiaKnowGuy

http://www.piaknow.com

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lordelix
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Re: Any real reason to go up to the G?

Post by lordelix »

agreed, where is the ignore button when you need it?! :P
The Audacity Works
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Re: Any real reason to go up to the G?

Post by The Audacity Works »

For starters the VA onboard the MPC5000 was a joint venture between Waldorf and Alesis and it absolutely smokes. How do i know? I played it at NAMM, but the reason i know its better than the Nord Lead and Access Virus is cause i own both of them...
Interesting. I played it at NAMM as well. For about ten minutes. Not enough to write an in-depth review, but certainly enough to get an overview of its strengths and weaknesses, especially considering I've owned more Akai gear than anyone I know. Including an MPC.

I'll have to talk to my old Waldorf rep to confirm, but a quick Google search for "Waldorf" + "Akai MPC5000" garners not a single mention of them having anything to do with the synth engine. When I asked the Akai guy at NAMM if Alesis had anything to do with the synth engine (what with the two companies sharing a booth and all), he gave me a shrugging look, as if to say "yeah, possibly". I'd like to see a source, please.

I've owned all sorts of VA synths over the years, and there was nothing remarkable about the MPC in this regard, other than the fact it was there and it sounded good. It absolutely, positively wasn't Virus or Nord level. It just wasn't. I currently own a Virus B, Virus Indigo TDM, Roland JP-8080, and V-Synth. In the past, I've owned a Waldorf MicroQ, Nord Lead 2 Rack, Nord Modular, Korg MS2000R, Roland JP-8000, and SH-32. The Akai's synth is pretty damn decent, but it's nothing to freak out about. It's better than the MV's analog bass synth for sure. The filters still sound Akai-ish, which is cool (personally, I like them), and they're better than in previous incarnations, but they're hardly warm or full-sounding. You're gonna regret selling those other synths. Don't do it.
The effects are all brand new and i heard them, and again they are by far better than the sh_t on the fantom X, how do i know, i own a fantom X!
Obviously this is subjective, and I admittedly can't speak for the new MPC, but man, Akai must've done something magical, because every single sampler and disk recorder they've ever made has the worst effects ever. And I mean WORST. If they've really improved their FX engine that much, cool.
the master compressor and 4 band master eq was also a joint venture specifically designed by the Sony Oxford and waves team and the results prove it.
A Google search for "Oxford" + "Akai MPC5000" results in, you guessed it, no mention of Sony having anything to do with Akai. Source, please.
Small monochrome screen? LOL my Roland JX305 had a small monochrome screen, two lines times sixteen characters and i worked miracles with it. The one on the MPC is huge by comparison, and who gives a rats arse if it ain't color, thats not gonna make it sound any better is it!
No, but the workflow of the sequencer is still gonna suck. Face it, the holy grail of MIDI sequencing is Logic or Cubase. The holy grail of hardware sequencing is the MV. Period. Until you can copy 37 noncontiguous regions across 29 tracks to any location in five seconds on the MPC, this conversation's over.
i said this MPC5000 has 680mb's of PREMIUM QUALITY UNCOMPRESSED sounds for gods sake. That blows the fantom G into the lake you silly boy.
Meh. What I heard (at least the samples loaded into the floor model at NAMM) wasn't all that impressive. No better than your average circa-2002 hip hop sample library produced by 40-year-old white dudes (okay, maybe 2004). Yes, better hip hop drums than what's included on the Fantom, but what about pianos? Or rhodes? Or oboes? Or sitars? Or all other instruments? And if you're comparing samples that load into RAM to 1750 immediately available stock ROMpler patches, perhaps a bit of product fundamentals is in order.

First of all, the MPC isn't a workstation. You can't layer patches for performance, you can't easily split patches, you can't select any sound or group of sounds from a single button press. You can't sequence more than one destination at once. Mind you, that's not a bad thing—it's just a different way of doing things. The MV can't do that stuff either.

If you want to gush about the MPC, feel free, but you really should visit MV Nation instead. Your comments don't really apply here, because workstations and hip hop production centers aren't the same product. At all. Anyone who's spent any amount of time in the trenches would know that. You're perfectly welcome here, but understand you're trying to convince a bunch of meat eaters that the new Vegetarian all-you-can-eat buffet is AMAZING! In short, the vast majority of us don't really care.

It's certainly amusing, though.
bassman
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Re: Any real reason to go up to the G?

Post by bassman »

One of the worst cases of trolling I've seen in years. . . . . .

C'mon guys, either start a new thread about Akai vs. Fantom or put this one back on topic. It's heading for a lock.
manishkurup
Posts: 418
Joined: 00:19, 23 August 2006

I agree ...

Post by manishkurup »

... this thread was a good read, but now it's taken a turn for the worse. I miss Audacity's Fantom G posts already :) !!

;) Manish
foleycore
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Re: Any real reason to go up to the G?

Post by foleycore »

come now audacity, would you rather have 1750 COMPRESSED rompler sounds immediately at hand, most of which are typical roland sh_t and unuseable, or would you rather have 680mb's of top notch sounds designed to kick arse that you only have to wait a few seconds for to load, lets face it, once their loaded, then their loaded right.
Sitars? oboes? flutes? pianos? Guitars? who on earth gives a frogs arse about any of that crap! you must be making music as a non professional hobbyist, cause the last time i heard any of those rom wasting sounds in a top 40 hit would have been...well never really.
the MPC is not a hip hop machine, its a Music Production Centre. Some of the sounds are geared towards hip hop and r&b and some are geared towards dance, techno, and house and everything in between.

We do indeed appear to have a difference of opinion as the VA in the MPC5000 was directly lifted from the Alesis Fusion synth which was the best virtual analog i have ever heard and is itself based on the Alesis Ion which got rave reviews.
Some of the guys from the now defunct Waldorf team workrd with Alesis to come up with it and i know for a fact it sounds fantastic. All i'll ever need to kick some arse.

you have your facts wrong, as you can indeed pick a sound or any group of sounds from a single pad, in fact you can PLAY a sound or any GROUP of sounds from a single pad.
of course you can sequence more than one destination. It has a 64 track sequencer with 4 midi outs you loopy boy, what do you think the hardisk is there for.
to suggest that the MPC is vegetarian is ludicrous.
again i have the fantom X and have had previous roland boards and except for a few sounds here and there, Roland is full of basically unuseable sh_t! and there filters are simply not up to scratch,period!!!
I did not like any of the effects in the fantom, but the ones in the 5000 are all new including the reverb.

It has been well proven that sounds that are compressed DO NOT translate well to extra compressed formats such as MP3, AAC etc so you've got trouble buddy boy.
the only time Roland sounds are used is for a dorky one off sound in stage use as part of a band or in studios maybe one or two Roland sounds are combined with a majority of uncompressed sounds.
anyway if i wanted a good sounding workstation the Yamaha Motif XS leaves the fantom for dead and that is well known so your trying to defend an undefendable product sorry to say.

your fantom doesn't have grid recording but the 5000 does plus we have step piano roll pattern and linear, are you telling me akai hasn't worked out a streamlined user interface, i think you better wake up out of that misguided dream. you're getting it all wrong.
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