Fantom G No Sound Thread

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Jimknopf
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Fantom G No Sound Thread

Post by Jimknopf »

It obviously is not possible to continue the Fantom G sound thread for one simple reason:

- there are no Fantom G sounds on the Fantom G page at http://www.roland.com/synth/Fantom/index.html :-))

So it seems to be urgent to open the more actual "Fantom G NO Sound Thread".

Our first post has a *very* important message to be found here:
http://www.roland.com/synth/Fantom/download.html

I will translate it for you:

"Sound Data..."

"...Coming Sooooon"!


Please feel free to add intelligent posts - well, you don't have to exceed natural limits - to the "Fantom G No Sound Thread" ;-)

Any NO SOUNDS you are especially interested in?
Any observations you made on NO SOUNDS?

Don't hesitate to speak out what you always wanted to know but never dared to ask about NO SOUNDS...
hallifax
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Re: Fantom G No Sound Thread

Post by hallifax »

hahaha

love it.

=)
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SkylineUK
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Re: Fantom G No Sound Thread

Post by SkylineUK »

In the You Tube video of Paul White, Sound On Sound editor, interviewing the Roland demo guy at NAMM the other week, I thought it odd that not once did the demonstrator actually play the thing to support any of his points! I assume it was a dummy. Did Paul White realise that I wonder?

John
stevie
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Re: Fantom G No Sound Thread

Post by stevie »

The best bit was when PW asked the question 'and what's the sound engine' and his reaction was so awquard with look of terror - I can only imagine about the things he was trying to say. And yes, this is a dig at the 'no new' sound engine!

Did you know that this sound engine has now been used since the JV line of synths - that's been around since the early 90's. Apart from the VP9000 (which was/is a truly great innovative product) and the VA of the JP8000, which have both been about from the late 90's, Roland have not made any new synthesizers. So no new synths for a decade and a record of three synthesis types in two decades. Go on Roland give it a go, you never know it may be good.....

Steve
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V-CeeOh
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Re: Fantom G No Sound Thread

Post by V-CeeOh »

Please feel free to add intelligent posts
erh...sorry... I think I can't do that ;-)
Jimknopf
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Re: Fantom G No Sound Thread

Post by Jimknopf »

The real crazy point in this PW interview comes when he is enumerating the "best of the best" sounds they took from SRX cards:

"So now our organs are out of the box even better, the strings are even better, ... the famous Rhod... erhhhh bass sounds are in here as well..."

If I interpret this slip of the tongue right, at this point during Namm Roland had *not* implemented the SRX-12 Rhodes. And if so, I guess they blew it, just to sell more of the ARX-02, which - if the demo we discussed sounds like it is - is totally unauthentic concerning vintage Rhodes, Wurlitzer and Clav sounds.

It's still a discussion on NO SOUNDS since they persistently refuse to put any sound demos online even 3 weeks after demoing the device at Namm, and despite the info spread here that a Roland rep said the G would ship end of March, reaching US beginning of April. They aren't in need of concealing something - or even a lot - from us, are they???

This leaves two interpretations:

- either they did or do some (or many) last minute changes in the sound ROM and come by with a halfway acceptable ROM.
This ROM can only be called acceptable if they
a) put in a Piano at SRX-11 level or better
b) put in a Rhodes on SRX-12 level or better
c) same for the SRX-12 Clav
d) finally add a quality Wurly (they have *none* so far)
e) completely replace the mediocre B3 sounds and the two not convincing rotary effects (former FantomX plus SRX-07 B3s)
just to name a few quuality standards they will be judged by.

- or they completely blew it, for example by
a) putting in a Piano below SRX-11 level
b) retreating behind their only first class SRX-12 trademark Rhodes sounds to go back to crappy small-sample Rhodes Pianos. Giving up the market leadership in the area where they shine, just for nothing!!!
c) using crappy Clavs like from SRX-07
d) adding no quality Wurly but recycling their old lower mediocre ones
e) seriously daring to offer us their old B3 sounds which received heavy ctritics over years for good reasons, nowhere reaching Korg or even Yamaha workstsation organ level


This sound thing, after the silly SRX cancelling, could easily become the worst critical public feedback boomerang in future harmony central user reviews and magazine journalist reviews, if they don't do their homework *very* carefully. Then the public discussion will really fire back at them...

What will be the sound future of a high usability device which would have deserved a good job from a *really* good sound department???
stevie
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Re: Fantom G No Sound Thread

Post by stevie »

Well, I can think of dozens more examples to add to your already pretty comprehensive list.

For me, Roland has blown it. Without SRX expansion (which are getting real dated anyway), 256MB of ROM is simply NOT ENOUGH to reproduce the best of the best. If wave ROM were 512MB, then yep cancel SRX and add truly new synthesis engines with ARX. I've got a feeling these are just SRX plus DPS - at my most sceptical they are ARX 01=SRX 01 (dynamic drums) plus DSP and ARX02=SRX12 plus DSP all for the bargain price of £300 - ummmm.

The NO SOUNDS of anything means there sorting there marketing out before they say ANYTHING.

As an overall though, the G is OK placed - I just don't fit the demograhic they're aiming for.

Steve
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V-CeeOh
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Re: Fantom G No Sound Thread

Post by V-CeeOh »

ok I think I can do it... here goes my slightly off topic but intelligent post ;-)

I think you guys don't have the slightest idea of what's trying to demo something in the middle of huge noise, crowds of people asking questions and have to repeat yourself 100s of times. And before you ask, yes I know what that is since I've done it several times. It's more than natural to say something wrong in those conditions. Somehow, sometime you just say something you shouldn't or in a way you shouldn't. Instead of bashing Warren Harris, you should just give some credit to his work.
Admit it, you are too ansious to hear the G. That's not a bad thing. But why don't you just let the guys to their job. Roland WILL release the demos when they think it's best. We may not agree but who are we to critisize?
Somehow I miss the time when there was no "Youtubes" and I just had to have the "real thing" on my fingers to LISTEN to it.
stevie
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Re: Fantom G No Sound Thread

Post by stevie »

hope we're talking about the same 'interview'? I'm referring to a NAMM video where PW asks the guy on the booth some questions about the G.

No one indeed should be bashing PW - I certainly wasn't, and I don't think anyone else was if we're talking about the right video. So I think you may have the wrong end of the stick there VCO.

Anyhow, the point is that no sound demo's have come forth since NAMM - not at NAMM. Everyone realises the problems at presenting at such a show.
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V-CeeOh
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Re: Fantom G No Sound Thread

Post by V-CeeOh »

Ooops, sorry, you're right. Actually I was talking about Warren Harris from Roland US, the demoing guy.

Corrected my previous post in accordance.
Mauro Rosati
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Re: Fantom G No Sound Thread

Post by Mauro Rosati »

Where is this video guys? Anyways it's true, it seems that they're scared about showing the sounds. I've said this in another post. And Warren ALL THE TIMES playing his bass. Lol.
Mauro Rosati
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Re: Fantom G No Sound Thread

Post by Mauro Rosati »

I think I've found it. ;)
Jimknopf
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Re: Fantom G No Sound Thread

Post by Jimknopf »

V-Cee-Oh, there's nothing to defend here:

1. Nobody is bashing the demo guys, sympathetic people who do their job. But everybody is really wondering what in heaven their job might have been this year

2. I know demoing is a hard job, but I remember many shows, where *sounds* were demoed intensively in a *musical* way. To pronounce it clear cut: this is the normal way of demoing a music device, and *not* just showing functions, and *not* just talking about features.
What Roland did with the G this year, is absolutely *not* the normal way, even measured by their own former shows. Do you remember the great demos they did when the V-Synth was announced? So you won't tell us this is the ususal way of demoing music gear, especially keyboards with loads of sonic possibilities ;-)

Concerning Warren, even in this case I would never bash him.
It was ok to critisize his show, repeatedly demoing his bass rather than *any* G sounds of interest (soundwise this was the poorest kind of demo I can imagine). But I think it's not Warren's fault in the case he perhaps *should* not demo what would have impressed no one if it were just the well known many years old JV sounds, perhaps not even including the best, multisampled of the newer ones (like SRX 12), just because 256Mb is simply too small to implement the best of the best from 12 SRXcards.

Yes, Roland has the right to hold back sound information as long as they wish!
And yes, we have the same right to critisize their attitude concerning demoing or implementing G sound as a highly unprofessional attitude, which I hereby do.

I hope nothing more than that this thread comes to a fast end after learning more about the G sounds soon. What I certainly do not hope (in my own interest), is that this thread could become more substantial and longer than the Roland G sound thread, as soon as we *know* what they did. They are walking on a thin line concerning sounds, after everybody has had the pleasure of plenty of SRX choices...
Jimknopf
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Re: Fantom G No Sound Thread

Post by Jimknopf »

This http://www.soundonsound.com/news&NewsID=9735 is the video we are talking about...
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V-CeeOh
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Re: Fantom G No Sound Thread

Post by V-CeeOh »

Jimknopf
I understand you right. My post were due to the fact that lately some guys seem more interested in making comments about the Roland US staff then on what really matters. I don't think Warren or any other need to be defended. I'm looking forward to hear the G as much as everybody else. Even more now, since I've just sold my X8 to trade it. You may say I'm contradicting myself since I've always said that "You must hear before you buy". But in this case, as I have also already said, I'm not trading cause of the sound and I'm absolutely sure it wont be worst then the X. This just would make no sense.

Now, I know that we would expect that in a "music show" you would expect to "hear" more. But I will not make personal oppinions on that it should have been this way or another. The G was always presented as "not finished" so I understand some "silence" from Roland. We could even specutale that maybe Roland should have not presented the G this year. Or maybe announce it in another show, maybe the Frankfurt Messe. But then they would miss the biggest show and we would get a lot of guys complaining about it. Also, noticed as the main focus was on the ARX and not on the internal sounds? Why? Because the ARX is a "new thing", not the internal sounds. But again, what I'm doing is speculate. In the end all we have done so far is speculate.
Again I'm just giving my oppinion as you are giving yours: I'm not worryed but yes I'm ansious to hear it. The G is to be released in a couple of months. If I have to wait till then, It's OK with me :-)
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