Fantom G sequencer

[fash]

OK, here goes. At the risk of sounding daft, can somebody please explain (in very simple terms) how the G's sequencer can possibly give me 128 midi tracks? The way I see it, it outputs 16 midi channels multimbrally, therefore how can it have 128 tracks? Are we saying that when I get to the mixer page, instead of seeing 16 tracks, I can scroll across and see 128?
If we're talking about overdubbing onto existing midi tracks, then you wouldn't be able to have independent control over each track after sequencing. So that's totally misleading, isn't it?

Help me out here, I really don't understand!!!

[V-CeeOh]

did you read THIS thread ?

[V-CeeOh]

ok, let me try to make this simple:

1 - take Part 10 with a rhythm kit
2 - select track 1 and hit rec. Record the bass drum only
3 - keep part 10 selected, select track 2, hit record and record the snare
4 - keep part 10 selected, select track 3, hit record and record the Hi-Hats

So far we only used the Rhythm Part, wich is on MIDI channel 10 BUT we have 3 tracks.

Whats the point? You have INDIVIDUAL control over each instrument in Part10 so if you want to change, say, velocity in the snare you go to track 2 ONLY (in my example) and change it over there.

Before this you had to go to track edit, SELECT the MIDI channel, SELECT the note number and only after that change the velocity.


Other example?
1 - Select Part1 with any sound, lets say a Piano
2 - Select track 1, hit record and record your playing
3 - You're no so sure you've liked it but don't want to dump it yet. So MUTE track 1
3 - Keep part 1 selected, select track 2. Hit record and try again.
4 - You felt better but no quite right yet. So mute Track 2
5 - Keep part1 selected, select track 3. hit record and record again
6 - Now you're not sure wich track is best and so you mute or unmute each track to find wich one you like most
7 - You end up finding that each track has good things going
8 - Delete what you don't like in EACH track, unmute ALL the tracks "et voilá" - your perfect piano track

What's the point? Again, you have only used Part 1 (channel 1) but were able to record 3 tracks each one with it's own take and you can mute/umute to choose what to keep or what to delete.

Before this you HAD to use MORE THAN 1 PART and more THAN 1 TRACK to achive the same (well not exactly but I think you get the picture)

Got it?

[hangman]

To most people, the 128 tracks thing is very misleading and for me was a major dissapointment regarding the G. Extra sequencer tracks (even getting it up to 24 would be great)would make a big difference. But then when I thought about it and looked into the situation more deeply it was obviously not the case.

Yes, its' actual functionality is reasonably useful and speeds up recording, but the way the 128 tracks is being made out to be such a major feature is pretty nonsensical in my opinion where in reality its really just a very minor improvement.

[V-CeeOh]

Well sorry, hangman, but that just depends on your perspective. I began MIDI recording many years ago with a Roland MSQ-100 sequencer. This was a *1* track sequencer!!! Don't ask me how I was able to fit my tracks there - well, I was learning anyway. Then I moved to a PR-100 sequencer. This was a 2 tracks (if I remember well) and I kept fighting with it but at least I could "merge" only after cheking my recording. After that I used a MC-300 and then the MC-50/50MKII wich were 5 tracks (beeing 1 specificaly for channel 10). Only much later, with my XP-50 I was able to have "track per channel", meaning, a 16 track sequencer. Why am I telling you this? Because I feel I never had enough tracks to lay my ideas (actually I solved that when I started using Cakewalk but this is not the point).
Now I agree that maybe 24, 32 or say 64 MIDI tracks would be enough but the thing is that there was room for 128, so why not?
So, from my point of view having 128 IS a major improvement

[hangman]

Hey Art, what I was saying was 128 midi tracks is fine i wasnt saying there should be less, i was saying that having a few extra actual sequencer tracks would make a real difference to me at least, 16 often ends up being not quite enough for me. I know resampling is there as a workaround but it would obviously be preferable to have actual extra tracks. Nontheless the 24 audio tracks is a major bonus.

Anyway the point I was making was that the 128 track thing is misleading, a lot of people who havnt had a workstation before might think its 128 sequencer tracks thus opening up endless possibilities and leading to eventual dissapointment when they discover the truth.

Btw Art i started out on a dusty old 4 track recorder (not quite a one track sequencer mind you!), so i share your experience with trying to record music with great limitations.

[thekeymaster]

I agree with V Cee here on this one.

Fash..

It's so much easier from a work flow point of view to have access to more midi tracks.it keeps things separated,without the need for extraction and having to keep at least a track free for editing within a 16 track limitation.

Simple example for easier workflow,you could make....

Tracks 1 to 16 assigned to internal instrument note information (INT 1-16)
Tracks 17 to 32 could have control data for the 16 internal instruments. (INT CC 1-16)

Then you could assign

Tracks 33 to 48 for all external midi instruments (EXT 1-16)
Tracks 49 to 64 have the control data for them (EXT CC 1-16)

Ok all of a sudden you have 64 tracks of data but you can see it all in front of you in an individual way not all bunched together on 16 midi tracks.Plus you still have 64 midi tracks still available to you.....

Me personally I prefer the method of especially seperating my midi drum parts,so you could bunch a batch of say 10 midi tracks for your drum kit parts(Midi CH 10) so example...

Track 65 KICK
Track 66 SNARE
Track 67 HI HAT
Track 68 TOMS
Track 69 CYMBALS
Track 70 SKIN PERCUSSION
Track 71 SHAKERS
Track 72 TAMBOURINES
Track 73 SECONDARY DRUM SAMPLES
Track 74 EFFECTS

I'm sure you are used to having loads and loads of tracks on a software seq.Roland have just brought the workstation closer to that workflow,the difference being you only have 16 int sound sources and 16 ext but this would be the same if you only had two pieces of hardware at home that could only work 16 part multi timbral each.

128 midi tracks is a MAJOR improvement to those of us who have had to work with 1 track hardware seq in the past.We appreciate the significance of this upgrade into a hardware keyboard workstation,its a major plus.

[Hugo]

Tbh, I would've been blown away by 32 midi tracks. With the inclusion of the 24 audio tracks, 16 midi tracks would have been fine. However, with so many tracks now, it'll ease the workflow significantly, as you can fill the other tracks with alternate versions, controller data, etc.

Fantastic move by Roland.

ps: and to repeat myself one more time; I want a *complete* solution in a workstation (with the exclusion of cd burning & internal harddrives). The Fantom G is to date the closest to being such a machine (even better than the Oasys, it seems, in crucial areas). I only hope they include loop crossfade in the sampler.

[V-CeeOh]

hangman

Nontheless the 24 audio tracks is a major bonus.

Yes, but I (we?) was just talking about the MIDI tracks.

Anyway the point I was making was that the 128 track thing is misleading

Not if you know what MIDI is. If that's not the case you probably also don't know whats "multi-tracking", "effects processor", "digital", "analog" RAM, ROM, USB etc etc and so any other things we use today. So if you don't know you "should" learn about it and don't assume that you are beeing misslead (not talking about YOU obviously). MIDI, as I assume you know, is 16 channel. Assuming you are sticked to 16 tracks would make no sense just like my example about the "1 track sequencer".

Btw Art i started out on a dusty old 4 track recorder

Well, it was me, V-CeeOh who replyed to you, not Art. I don't think Art even knows what's a "tape deck" . Anyway, as I said, I was talking about MIDI, not audio. I remember very well where my audio takes were layed down - it was a Fostex X15 4 track cassete multitracker!!!

[hangman]

hey V-Ceeoh dont know why i thought you were artemio! probably just so used to seeing his replies. Yes i understand midi i was just saying that the 128 tracks could be confusing to less experienced users.

[Artemiy]

hey V-Ceeoh dont know why i thought you were artemio! probably just so used to seeing his replies

That's a good thing, isn't it? )))

[V-CeeOh]

That's a good thing, isn't it? )))

Only if you know what a tape-deck is

[Artemiy]

Only if you know what a tape-deck is

Uhmm... Is it something self-inflatable?

Seriously, I started off by overdubbing my music with a portable cassette recorder and a dual tape deck. Not much quality, but a lot of fun

[The Audacity Works]

Wait, so 128 tracks in the Fantom-G is misleading, because people who don't know anything about MIDI get confused? Should Roland dumb their products down to placate newbies?

128 tracks is perfect. It's exactly the type of feature to set the G apart from the rest, especially considering how inferior the M3 and OASYS sequencers were to begin with.

One track per part was one of the main reasons I switched to Logic.

[Doug Crazy]

Audacity... do you have Logic 8... that program is AMAZING !!!!!

Heres my question about the G sequencer... Lets say tracks 10 thru 20 are a drum kit called super drums(kick snare hihat etc..). So on each one of those tracks is that one sound source (the super drums kit). If i go to adjust the level of the different midi tracks, wont that adjust the over all Kit volume.?? Meaning if I turn down the hi hat on track 15 wont that just lower ALL the tracks volumes(10 thru 20). Or will I have to adjust the actual velocities. it it lets you control individual volumes of a kit just by lowering the mixer for that channel... that would be hot.