Disappointed so far

[The Audacity Works]

no real multi-sampling? Meaning no multi-sampling at all or no features that exceed the multi-sampling on the the Fantom X?

The Fantom X didn't have multi-sampling until 2.0, and even then, it was kinda obtuse and crappy. You'll still be able to assign samples to individual keys (presumably), but not multiple pitched samples across multiple pitched key regions (presumably). A startling omission, no doubt, but I think a lot of people don't know what multisampling actually entails. The vast majority of people (even those who sample extensively) will never miss it.

Obviously, however, a few of us will.

I built a handbell multisample on an X for a friend, and it was a huge PITA. Ideally, Roland would've improved workflow to make multisampling actually usable on the G, but it looks like they dumped it altogether, kinda like how they dumped the weird multitimbral workaround from the original V-Synth with the new GT. Sigh...

When do the Fantom-G Version 2.0 rumor threads start?

[RevP]

Thanks for explaining Audacity. That kinda of hurts a bit: I have really grown to love Art's samples and Coakley's pianos; both which are key to a good portion of my studio & live work right now.
Hmmm....I guess I have to keep reading and watching...the Fantom G is almost right for me...we'll see...

[geppastro]

"I'm assuming the reason Roland disables MFX as output destinations in Live Mode is to maintain the integrity of their coveted Patch Remain feature."

That's exactly what I feared since the first rumours on Fantom G's live mode. A great idea not fully implemented. They could at least give us "blocks" of MFXs, i.e. you could chose to have in live mode 2 blocks of 8 MFX (as it is now) or 4 blocks of 4 MFX.

For example, at the moment live mode works like this:
block 1 block 2
part 1 -> MFX 1 -> MXF 9
part 2 -> MFX 2 -> MFX 10
part 3 -> MFX 3 -> MFX 11
part 4 -> MFX 4 -> MFX 12
part 5 -> MFX 5 -> MXF 13
part 6 -> MFX 6 -> MFX 14
part 7 -> MFX 7 -> MFX 15
part 8 -> MFX 8 -> MFX 16

Initially, part 1 has MFX 1. Then you you change live set, and part 1's MFX1 goes seamlessly into MFX 9 etc.

In addition, I'd like to have something like this:

block 1 block 2 block 3 block 4
part 1 -> MFX 1 -> MXF 5 MFX 9 -> MFX 13
part 2 -> MFX 2 -> MFX 6 MFX 10 -> MFX 14
part 3 -> MFX 3 -> MFX 7 MFX 11 -> MFX 15
part 4 -> MFX 4 -> MFX 8 MFX 12 -> MFX 16
part 5 NA NA NA NA
part 6 NA NA NA NA
part 7 NA NA NA NA
part 8 NA NA NA NA

Initially, part 1 has MFX 1 and MFX 9. Then you change live set, and part 1's MFX 1 goes seamlessly into MFX 5 AND part 1's MFX 9 goes sealessly into MFX 13 etc. (NA = not available)
Does it make sense?

[The Audacity Works]

That makes a lot of sense, and I can completely see it working.

At the risk of sounding cynical, the downside is that it completely undermines PFX, whose sole point for existing is making sure patches sound exactly the same in every mode. I agree that the flexibility would be nice, but then people will complain that none of the Live Set presets use two PFX processors and if there were, that Live Sets sound different than in Single Mode. Now we're back to square one.

A future implementation I might suggest is simply changing the MENU > SYSTEM > SOUND > PATCH REMAIN options to "On" (the default), "Off", and "Patch+PFX". Selecting "Patch+PFX" would allow one to gain access to the MFX processors, but because the user would have to manually choose to bypass the default PATCH REMAIN setting, they're agreeing to glitches when the MFX processors switch... which shouldn't be too noticeable considering all the patches and PFX processors would still be seamless.

Again, people can always build layers in Studio Mode. They can even switch between Studio Sets and Live Sets in Favorites, so if one needs two effects on one particular performance, they can assign it in Studio Mode and use Live Mode for all their other performances. There will only be effects glitches when going to/from that particular Studio Set.

So amp —> rotary on a part's completely doable; switching to/from that one particular performance just won't be perfectly seamless... which is like every other workstation.

[geppastro]

"So amp —> rotary on a part's completely doable; switching to/from that one particular performance just won't be perfectly seamless... which is like every other workstation."

Yeah I already realized that, but unfortunately I need that combination (preamp + rotary) on almost all my "performances" (so to speak in ancient Rolandish ).
Sure, I get it: probably that's not an issue for a lot of potential Fantom G buyers, but for me it is ... Well, I repeat, I'll stick with my Fantom X.

[The Audacity Works]

Yeah I already realized that, but unfortunately I need that combination (preamp + rotary) on almost all my "performances" (so to speak in ancient Rolandish ).
Sure, I get it: probably that's not an issue for a lot of potential Fantom G buyers, but for me it is...

Gotcha. Yeah, the FX routing is restrictive if, like me, you're used to instanciating buttloads of plugins, but I understand why Roland locked PFX to internal parts. Wonder if it all stems from that huge snafu over at the Groove forum where no one knew how the MC-808 and 909 worked and kept bitching about the effects cutting off when switching patterns?

[xsprt]

Cons:
-No multi samples.
-Live mode can hanlde 8 parts (+PFX), and the remaining 8 PFX dsp power is left w/out any usage - what a total waste.
-24 Audio track, but only 544MB for sampling, quite ridicules I think.
-Still 16bit/44.1kHz sampling capabilities (come on!!!).
-Live/Studio mode, still w/out a dedicated EQ for each part.
-Audio via USB handles only 4 channels (right???).
-Sampling/Resampling gain loss (probably -12dB).
-A patch is still built from only 4 oscillators.
-USB media can't be removed while the unit is operating (what if I have no enough free storage space on the currently inserted card, how can I save my work then?).
-No preset content (drum-loops, phrases).
-Real-time sample time-streching takes twice the polyphony.

Pros:
-Extended (doubled) preset wave memory.
-Studio mode can handle 16 PFX.
-Mouse support.
-128 midi track sequencer.
-I/O can handle line-level and mic/guitar signals simultaneously.
-Big screen.
-Opaque pads.

I think that I'll wait for the next model,
xsprt

[Quinnx.]

Pro and cons:

USB media can't be removed while the unit is operating
Where does it say that?

Audio via USB handles only 4 channels
I think is more like 2 channel stereo mix from all current tracks playing.

Real-time sample time-stretching takes twice the polyphony
Why would it do that?

[xsprt]

>>>>USB media can't be removed while the unit is operating
>>>>Where does it say that?
See manual P. 24.

>>>>Audio via USB handles only 4 channels
>>>>I think is more like 2 channel stereo mix from all current tracks playing.
1 stereo channel for output + 1 stereo channel for input (4 channels in total)

>>>>Real-time sample time-stretching takes twice the polyphony
>>>>Why would it do that?
Probably it needs more DSP power.

xsprt

[Quinnx.]

I think what it is saying,
you should not remove the usb storage while it is being written to or your data will become corrupt.

[Septimo]

no Quinn...it says while the power is on...so I guess it must be powered down or else...sounds weird but thats what it says....maybe they do mean while its writing but that's not what it says...

[Artemiy]

Actually this is a standard warning we also had on S and X models, but we all know everyone plugged the cards and and out, you just need to make sure no data is being written while you're doing so. On the G6 I worked with, I plugged a USB drive in and out multiple times without powering off, all was okay.

[V-CeeOh]

I promised myself I would not post a character about the G the next few days but I just can't help it:

No multi samples.

Ok, I agree. Although I don't particulary need it I understand that for some guys this is a disapontment.

Live mode can hanlde 8 parts (+PFX), and the remaining 8 PFX dsp power is left w/out any usage - what a total waste.

Do you have a clue on what you're saying???? It's BECAUSE of the 8 part limit that we get smeamless switching. You call that a TOTAL WASTE???? If you want to use 16 PFX turn to Studio Mode.

-24 Audio track, but only 544MB for sampling, quite ridicules I think.

Yes we should have none. No Audio Tracks and no RAM. That would make things a lot easier and good.

-Still 16bit/44.1kHz sampling capabilities (come on!!!).

I always find strange why someone feels that the actual audio CD specs are not enough. As if actually anyone HEARS the difference between that and 24-bit/192Khz.... (come on!!!)

-Live/Studio mode, still w/out a dedicated EQ for each part.

This has been discussed to the limit. Yes you do not have EQ per part but you have FX per part (wich can be an EQ). Ok, I get it: you want EQ AND FX. Sorry, keep disapointed.... with just about every other keyboard on the market 'cause you-don't-have-1 EQ+1FX-for every-part.

-Audio via USB handles only 4 channels (right???).

No, its stereo, 2 channels. Don't say it... Since the G is 16 part multitimbral you want 16 individual stereo channels through USB, right?. Hey but look, the ARX can also be 16 part multi-timbral and there's also a stereo input . So you actually wanted it to stream 50 channel through USB???? The Fantom X just didn't had USB audio streaming so....

Sampling/Resampling gain loss (probably -12dB).

I don't have a single clue on where you got this so, yeah, right

-A patch is built from only 4 oscillators.

Let me read it again... "only 4 oscilators"?????

-USB media can't be removed while the unit is operating (what if I have no enough free storage space on the currently inserted card, how can I save my work then?).

I think you got this right by now.

-No preset content (drum-loops, phrases).

huh?????????

-Real-time sample time-streching takes twice the polyphony.

Again a TOTAL WASTE, isn't it? We'd be better without this time-streching thing and keep our polyphony.

Sorry, I don't want to seem rude but I don't think you're a real "xsprt" or are missinformed on the actual worstation market.

[Quinnx.]

Im sure this comes from the fact that on the X
anything re sampled is not recorded at the same amplitude as the source.

This is because the firmware has set the recording level too low
(this can be adjusted if you enter maintenance mode which is not suppose to be accessible)
roland could fix this but have refused every request by denying the
problem actually exists and by justifying by saying you can compensate by using sample gain in the sample properties page +12db and turning the gain up +12db in the patch.

Now the question is Why should anyone have to compensate at all?

[V-CeeOh]

Quinnx
You know that I know were this idea came from.

The point is:
Fact: The Fantom X stops the sound when switching patches
Clue: The fact that the X stops the sound when switching leads me to be disapointed because the G also does it.

Get it