NAMM 2013 Rumours - new Roland Workstation?

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Quinnx.
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Re: NAMM 2013 Rumours - new Roland Workstation?

Post by Quinnx. »

I think its horses for courses..
Change for change sake is a foolish game that most people seem to do just so they feel they can stay ahead of the game..
I mean.. if you buy say fantom one year and 1 two years later you feel the need to go the the next new thing are you planning far enough ahead with your gear or is it that you feel insecure unless your keeping up..?
I think 6-10 years is what people should be looking at when they get a new synth/workstation.
Jupiter has alot gong for it except price, intergra is pricy but fails to entice due to lack of pc integration software/vst. I mean.. to have all this potential and then lock it all away behind a tiny lcd buttons and control wheel.
if you already in the fantom relm its a bit early to be thinking of upgrading to something new for alot of resasons i have mentioned past including workflow.
I agree it will be interesting to see what roland can afford to offer as a workstation givin what the fantom already has to offer. I think i would be right in saying that anyone already with a fantom would want nothing less than this and then more to boot...
but if you already have the fantom and want the same but with the integra engine.. you would be just as wise to get the integra and add to the fantom G as you would have twice the resources than you would if you got a integra workstation in favor or the G.
Leh173
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Re: NAMM 2013 Rumours - new Roland Workstation?

Post by Leh173 »

It's not about upgrading just for the sake of it. If Roland released a new Fantom with 256 poly but basically as the G is now, I would never buy it, like many people never went from the X to the G.

My point of view about a new one with the integra engine is that the FG is 5 years old soon. It's time for a refresh. Rolands new SN sound engine is superior to the old ROMpler JV/XV engine in terms of playability and authenticity of tone. Also at this point in time computer CPUs available to Roland or any DSP processors should be able to give us what the Fantom G has plus the SN Acoustic, the VK organ engine, the V-Drums and a proper VA. That is what the Integra is. It is clearly based on the Fantoms Studio Mode, but with a choice of sound engines. The only thing missing is the sampling. This in a keyboard workstation as well built as the FG would be worth buying/upgrading to if they get the UI and OS right. That's what I would hope for. They have already made the Integra which proves it can be done. Married to a Fantom and it would be incredible. Of course if they don't, like you suggest, people can buy the Integra or just use their DAW. But a Integra based Fantom keyboard would be brilliant LIVE, which was my whole point of buying the FG in the first place. I want this to happen because I chose and love the G, but I think the Fantom concept deserves to go further. I did not choose Kronos.
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PauloF
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Re: NAMM 2013 Rumours - new Roland Workstation?

Post by PauloF »

Leh173 wrote:It's not about upgrading just for the sake of it. If Roland released a new Fantom with 256 poly but basically as the G is now, I would never buy it, like many people never went from the X to the G.

My point of view about a new one with the integra engine is that the FG is 5 years old soon. It's time for a refresh. Rolands new SN sound engine is superior to the old ROMpler JV/XV engine in terms of playability and authenticity of tone. Also at this point in time computer CPUs available to Roland or any DSP processors should be able to give us what the Fantom G has plus the SN Acoustic, the VK organ engine, the V-Drums and a proper VA. That is what the Integra is. It is clearly based on the Fantoms Studio Mode, but with a choice of sound engines. The only thing missing is the sampling. This in a keyboard workstation as well built as the FG would be worth buying/upgrading to if they get the UI and OS right. That's what I would hope for. They have already made the Integra which proves it can be done. Married to a Fantom and it would be incredible. Of course if they don't, like you suggest, people can buy the Integra or just use their DAW. But a Integra based Fantom keyboard would be brilliant LIVE, which was my whole point of buying the FG in the first place. I want this to happen because I chose and love the G, but I think the Fantom concept deserves to go further. I did not choose Kronos.
If further updates of the Integra include:

1- A kind of Registration Mode where one can choose from different Live Sets using different Expansion Slots, although a bit redundant for Studio use, will be a HUGE improvement for Live use.

2- A Computer Editor/VST

3- A Sampler like the one on the V-Synth, for example

4- Variphrase (??? dream on..)

This will blow the competition away (IMHO, of course).

Most surely only in my dreams, but the sky is the limit and the technology does not cease to surprise us ;-)

Roland, c'mon...at least Points 1 and 2 ;-D
Devnor
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Re: NAMM 2013 Rumours - new Roland Workstation?

Post by Devnor »

Things that would completely seal the deal for me are:

SRX waves processed by the SN synth engine's filter
V Piano engine
Aux outputs for the TW organ, so I can use a Neo ventilator
Flash Ram sample storage
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Quinnx.
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Re: NAMM 2013 Rumours - new Roland Workstation?

Post by Quinnx. »

What exactly would make it a Good workstation?

To me it seems like people would like another fantom G as a footprint
and add in all the other extras..
but lets say they did
what wil make are break it?
is it going to be the sequencer?
after all a workstation is not a workstation unless its got a sequencer/DAW (right?)
without this its a keyboard/synth
Is the G seq/daw good enough?

So we get a integra that looks like a G
would you be happy if it came with the same seq/DAW (yes just buy the integra now)
or would your expectations be higher and do you think roland can can afford to meet all of them
at this level?
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cello
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Re: NAMM 2013 Rumours - new Roland Workstation?

Post by cello »

This is the difficult part - putting in the latest and best of everything in a workstation which you can be sure will still leave people complaining!

What I can see is that such weaknesses have not stopped sales of the Kronos with its old and outdated seq/DAW. It was even outdated when it was launched on the OASYS! The O community begged Korg to update it (piano roll for example) and when the Kronos was released they had ignored every request and only upgraded the resolution. Low and behold the Kronos community is making the same complaints the O users made 7 years ago.

I still think Roland is best placed at the moment to have the greater (ie more so than Korg and Yamaha) opportunity to increase their share of the workstation market - if they choose to!
Devnor
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Re: NAMM 2013 Rumours - new Roland Workstation?

Post by Devnor »

cello wrote:What I can see is that such weaknesses have not stopped sales of the Kronos with its old and outdated seq/DAW. It was even outdated when it was launched on the OASYS! The O community begged Korg to update it (piano roll for example) and when the Kronos was released they had ignored every request and only upgraded the resolution. Low and behold the Kronos community is making the same complaints the O users made 7 years ago.
Thanks for making my point, Cello :p

Nobody buys these things for the sequencers and they are never, ever happy with the product. Kronos sold because it was a oasys of nine synth engines. Not once did I ever read "I'm buying Kronos because I need a sequencer!". Its all about the sounds, man. This is where Roland must up the ante. Integra plus seq isn't the answer.
Leh173
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Re: NAMM 2013 Rumours - new Roland Workstation?

Post by Leh173 »

Yep it's the sounds that need updated. The G engine is fine but in 2012 I think we can expect more which is what Kronos is. The Jupiter-80/Integra engine in a Fantom would be great. A few tweaks to the sequencer, extra USB Audio functionality (like the Sonic Cell) proper file import/export options for patches based on multisamples and for songs/phrases and crossfades on loop points for the sample engine (the S-760 could do this!), proper external mode for MIDI controller purposes. Flash memory a la Motif XF/SPD-SX, so no long boot times! Roland has all of this technology but they need to do a Korg and put it all together. They're getting close with the Integra-7.
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PauloF
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Re: NAMM 2013 Rumours - new Roland Workstation?

Post by PauloF »

Leh173 wrote:Yep it's the sounds that need updated. The G engine is fine but in 2012 I think we can expect more which is what Kronos is. The Jupiter-80/Integra engine in a Fantom would be great. A few tweaks to the sequencer, extra USB Audio functionality (like the Sonic Cell) proper file import/export options for patches based on multisamples and for songs/phrases and crossfades on loop points for the sample engine (the S-760 could do this!), proper external mode for MIDI controller purposes. Flash memory a la Motif XF/SPD-SX, so no long boot times! Roland has all of this technology but they need to do a Korg and put it all together. They're getting close with the Integra-7.
There is another point to consider... the price that they have to sell such an instrument.
I don't know...taking into consideration that the Fantom G, the JP-80 and the integra-7 are all a lot cheaper than the Kronos, maybe a combined product could be in the same range... just ideas
Leh173
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Re: NAMM 2013 Rumours - new Roland Workstation?

Post by Leh173 »

Good point, but the fact they got the SN-A SN-S V-drums VK and PCM engine into the Integra-7 at a pretty decent price make me think it's possible... The G is a top shelf instrument, the build quality is superb. I would guess that the sound engine capabilities would depend on DSP power available to Roland, which would be quite a bit more that 2007 when the G was developed or even 2010/2011 when the Jupiter-80 was developed. Even the Kronos is old tech, just optimised well by Korg.

I suppose if Roland don't make a new Fantom I can always get the Integra-7 down the track, but it just easier to take 1 great board to gigs. I also find myself using the G on it's own a lot more that I anticipated despite having a fully stocked mac with Logic Pro sitting right next the G at home.
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Quinnx.
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Re: NAMM 2013 Rumours - new Roland Workstation?

Post by Quinnx. »

Which all comes back to everything i said before..
It great wanting all of this, and yes roland have it all to offer but
at what price point?

Again its going to be difficult to offer a workstation that combines the integra tech
at a price point that does not kill the JP series and then not get criticism from the lack of
sequencer/daw functionality.
and lets not forget file system and usb audio functionality too..
It may be too much weight for roland to handle to be able to offer such a board.

if they do offer something its gonna cut corners the keep you wanting either the Integra or jupiter Unless they come up with something completely different that no one would have expected..

Thats just my reasoning and prediction on this.
and since roland never communicate not even to confirm or deny.. its all just speculation until they reveal their next surprise. Until then we can just enjoy our wonderful fantom G :)
en76
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Re: NAMM 2013 Rumours - new Roland Workstation?

Post by en76 »

The next FG better have a polyphony over 256 which i wish this over due FG had.
Jan_nl
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Re: NAMM 2013 Rumours - new Roland Workstation?

Post by Jan_nl »

So, lots of wishes but no rumours?

Well, at least Yamaha has a rumour out that they have something big coming up.
I don't know if that's a workstation, or a synth, or whatever, but it should be bigger than a piano bench.
special-k
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Re: NAMM 2013 Rumours - new Roland Workstation?

Post by special-k »

I think Quinnx is right. The Integra looks neat and there is a sonic improvement (there better be after 5 years) and there are a few "neat" features on the Jupiter/Integra series. But honestly, neither one is all that exciting or innovative and they are quite pricey as well. If Roland wanted to generate enthusiasm and push volume on the I7, they would have priced it at 1499 retail. 2000 is just too much for a module with its feature list.

I love my G, wish I still had my X. Unless there were a huge surprise out of left field released in NAMM, I'll stick with what I got, increase the sample ram to the max and continue using VST's when the G doesn't have what I need.

Roland was once a very daring and bold company. In the last several years, they have gone as conservative as they can putting most of their resources into low-end junk. If they were going to release a workstation with Integra+, I don't think they have the room in the price point based on the price of the I7 to put something on the market to compete with the Kronos. If that's negative as well so be it. ;-)
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Re: NAMM 2013 Rumours - new Roland Workstation?

Post by PauloF »

Devnor wrote:Things that would completely seal the deal for me are:

SRX waves processed by the SN synth engine's filter
V Piano engine
Aux outputs for the TW organ, so I can use a Neo ventilator
Flash Ram sample storage
I'm not totally sure (need to check this), but I think that the third one is already answered...
You can route the TW organ out to the Out A and route the other parts to the B, C and D, I think...any I-7 owner can clarify this point.
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