NAMM 2013 Rumours - new Roland Workstation?

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PauloF
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Re: NAMM 2013 Rumours - new Roland Workstation?

Post by PauloF »

FxProject wrote:Roland Will make à new workstation keyboard with the integra synth engine and all the sounds of the integra and the sounds of synth legend with séquencer and audio recording
That is faith !!!
You said that as if you knew it from the inside (of Roland)... ;-)

Amen to that, but I seriously doubt it
Rodan
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Re: NAMM 2013 Rumours - new Roland Workstation?

Post by Rodan »

Not a rumor, just a prognostication. We are still one to two years away from seeing a decision on the Fantom-G. At that time it will either be replaced or simply dropped. Chances of one or the other? 40:60. My guess is they have designers working on the successor but are holding off on a decision to go into production.

By the way, I would love to be proven completely wrong and will humbly accept the justified criticism of this post.
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Quinnx.
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Re: NAMM 2013 Rumours - new Roland Workstation?

Post by Quinnx. »

Dont see the point of doing a integra workstation
all that wil do is add realestate and make it bloatware and cost would go through the roof!
What they need to do is consentrate on increasing sales of the integra by offering a full vst suite that utilises all of the integras features for full intergration on the pc.
kday
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Re: NAMM 2013 Rumours - new Roland Workstation?

Post by kday »

PauloF wrote: Don't agree with your view.
Roland learned and understood that the future is not the hardware workstations market, due to the incredible development that the computer based Apps have reached.
With JP-80, JP-50 and Integra-7, Roland leads the way to a new era of expressive synths and those 3 are a good example of that, blowing away the competition on innovation, Sound and build quality and expressiveness.

I could be wrong of course, but I think that a new Roland Workstation will not see the light of day, as they are leading on a different way now.

Just MHO

I don't agree with your view.

You must have forgot that Roland is a "hardware" musical instrument company, and not a software one.

Software is never the future when hardware is always and forever will be in demand. Hardware is constantly needed by bands, professionals and cash strapped musicians looking for latest greatest MI toy. hardware will never go out of style regardless of what software has to offer because hardware is always better. When a great synth hits the markets it sells in droves. Take the Motif XF and the Kronos, both sold great numbers because people with money were excited at the newer technology those keyboards had to offer.

Roland just failed because they hadn't offered anything new in nearly 10 years, while Korg and Yamaha offered something other than rehashed sounds in a new redesigned case.

If Roland offer a keyboard with the Integra sounds and no new bells and whistles, no innovation, no comprehensive multi-sampling, no hardrive storage, no new analog synth engine it will again be a failure. Roland has to go back to the drawing board and think long and hard on how to compete with Yamaha and Korg to survive.

Software is not the future, software sucks! Software poses too many problems and often becomes obsolete for live players who buy hardware synthesizers that expect to last for years and years in 100% reliability.
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Quinnx.
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Re: NAMM 2013 Rumours - new Roland Workstation?

Post by Quinnx. »

How does software become oboslete!?
if its doing the same job it was doing when it was 1st purchased?
in that case durms may aswell be obsolete since their very very old and sure
we can now play durms on a keyboard or a padl..
in music there is no such thing as obsolete.
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PauloF
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Re: NAMM 2013 Rumours - new Roland Workstation?

Post by PauloF »

kday wrote:
PauloF wrote: Don't agree with your view.
Roland learned and understood that the future is not the hardware workstations market, due to the incredible development that the computer based Apps have reached.
With JP-80, JP-50 and Integra-7, Roland leads the way to a new era of expressive synths and those 3 are a good example of that, blowing away the competition on innovation, Sound and build quality and expressiveness.

I could be wrong of course, but I think that a new Roland Workstation will not see the light of day, as they are leading on a different way now.

Just MHO

I don't agree with your view.

You must have forgot that Roland is a "hardware" musical instrument company, and not a software one.

Software is never the future when hardware is always and forever will be in demand. Hardware is constantly needed by bands, professionals and cash strapped musicians looking for latest greatest MI toy. hardware will never go out of style regardless of what software has to offer because hardware is always better. When a great synth hits the markets it sells in droves. Take the Motif XF and the Kronos, both sold great numbers because people with money were excited at the newer technology those keyboards had to offer.

Roland just failed because they hadn't offered anything new in nearly 10 years, while Korg and Yamaha offered something other than rehashed sounds in a new redesigned case.

If Roland offer a keyboard with the Integra sounds and no new bells and whistles, no innovation, no comprehensive multi-sampling, no hardrive storage, no new analog synth engine it will again be a failure. Roland has to go back to the drawing board and think long and hard on how to compete with Yamaha and Korg to survive.

Software is not the future, software sucks! Software poses too many problems and often becomes obsolete for live players who buy hardware synthesizers that expect to last for years and years in 100% reliability.
I agree that the hardware Synths should be here to stay, and I do prefer that to software world too, but that is not what the market trend indicates...

In Roland's case, since the Fantom G, we are seeing them going Synth based products (Juno Di, Juno Gi, JP-50, JP-80, Integra-7) where they scrapped all Sampling, Sequencing and Audio Recording (except some simple WAV Audio Recording) and passed those functions to software DAWs, as they are more powerful and sophisticated than never.
They own partially cakewalk, and that also makes some sense, as it will be difficult for any company to produce an hardware based DAW as sophisticated as Sonar, Live, Logic, Cubase, etc
Some integra adverts show a Multitrack Audio Interface and SONAR X1/X2 together with the module suggesting that for a complete workstation, maybe it is just a subliminar clue...

Now...if Roland decides to go for a real Workstation in 2013/14, even considering the economic crisis where we all are and the particular situation they are suffering, it's up to Roland to decide, but I think they will try and struggle to be alive in the next few years, even if that tells them that they should do different products when compared to their more direct competition.
The economic times are not good for adventures...

But as I said, time will tell.
;-)
Jan_nl
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Re: NAMM 2013 Rumours - new Roland Workstation?

Post by Jan_nl »

Well, within a month or so we'll know for sure if Roland has an announcement for a new workstation planned for NAMM.

Usually discussions about DAWs and hardware workstations turn into one pitched against the other, but I see them as two different non-competitive platforms, each having their own strengths and weaknesses, and I do not think either one will be obsolete any time soon.

But you're quite right in mentioning the crisis, PauloF, because it makes a lot of people (including me) hold back their money, asking themselves whether or not they REALLY need a new this or that.
And in spite of feigned optimism, the coming years do not look good AT ALL.
So who knows, maybe Roland will release a new micro-Fantom.;)

I DO think it is a good idea for any company to pay attention to the low end in these uncertain times.
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cello
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Re: NAMM 2013 Rumours - new Roland Workstation?

Post by cello »

I for one hope Roland launch their 'next gen' workstation at NAMM. I hear what folks say about too soon (in terms of development) and also economic times.

However such economic times didn't harm the Kronos sales much - however their development time was greatly reduced by using the OASYS as the basis (to the point of using the same GUI).

With what Roland has in the Fantom productline and what they've learned since launching it, I sense this would be a good time to launch something new that excites and mixes up the workstation market. If it's as good as it should be, then I'd definitely order one :)

Of course, this may be just my wishful thinking running away with itself... ! lol
keysme
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Re: NAMM 2013 Rumours - new Roland Workstation?

Post by keysme »

The decision by Roland to wait so long before releasing a Fantom G successor could be tied to new technology that none of the other workstations on the market incorporate. I'm talking about USB 3.0 and 256 note polyphony... across the entire range of the keyboard. Unlike the JP-80, where the poly is apparently divided up four ways i.e. 256 poly ÷ 4 = 64, and thus, limits the JP-80 poly from its full potential and a huge misstep by Roland and company in my opinion. Hopefully the Fantom G successor will correct that anomaly. If Roland actually makes a Fantom G successor that is.

Processors are getting more powerful and now 256 note polyphony - across the entire range of the keyboard - is possible without latency issues. Plus USB 3.0 is the current spec, and thereby, makes USB 2.0 obsolete. Companies that incorporate USB 3.0 will be rewarded by the consumer. Companies that incorporate 256 note polyphony -- across the entire range of the keyboard -- will be rewarded as well. Which will thrust that very same company into the limelight and "vault" them into the lead over the competition. Hopefully Roland will be that company and in doing so give new meaning to the phrase: "The Future of Music Production Is Here!!"

Winter NAMM 2013 could be the ticket to stardom for Roland and company but only time will tell. On the other hand, if Roland has decided to "give up" producing any more workstation keyboards then Godzilla (yes, that monster of a KEYBOARD that will put all other keyboards to shame by comparison) will have to proceed from the halls of Yamaha, Korg, Kurzweil or even Casio??? and Roland and company could be relegated to eating the dust of their competitors for the foreseeable future. Eating too much dust can cause a person (or company) to croak, needless to say. Going belly up from eating too much dust is a sure sign a company is on the ropes and out of ideas. Hopefully I'm wrong in Roland's case.

Winter NAMM '13 may tell us one way or the other what we really need to know. If Roland releases a Fantom G successor at winter NAMM '13 it will tell us that Roland is still in the game. If Roland chooses to "nix" production of workstation keyboards going forward (which is actually going 'backward' in my opinion) then hordes and even droves of people may possibly "jump ship" and swim to greener shores and Roland could be relegated to second class status and to eating dust, as they struggle to gain ground and invariably lose market share in the process. Sad, very sad indeed. Perish the thought in fact. I would like to believe Roland is still in the game. But if no 'true' workstation is forthcoming from the halls of Roland Japan... Roland may have just 'struck out' in the bottom of the ninth inning and the opposing team(s) will be ecstatic at the prospect of beating Roland and company... at their own game. GAME OVER!!! Or is it?? ;)
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Re: NAMM 2013 Rumours - new Roland Workstation?

Post by PauloF »

keysme wrote:The decision by Roland to wait so long before releasing a Fantom G successor could be tied to new technology that none of the other workstations on the market incorporate. I'm talking about USB 3.0 and 256 note polyphony... across the entire range of the keyboard. Unlike the JP-80, where the poly is apparently divided up four ways i.e. 256 poly ÷ 4 = 64, and thus, limits the JP-80 poly from its full potential and a huge misstep by Roland and company in my opinion. Hopefully the Fantom G successor will correct that anomaly. If Roland actually makes a Fantom G successor that is.

Processors are getting more powerful and now 256 note polyphony - across the entire range of the keyboard - is possible without latency issues. Plus USB 3.0 is the current spec, and thereby, makes USB 2.0 obsolete. Companies that incorporate USB 3.0 will be rewarded by the consumer. Companies that incorporate 256 note polyphony -- across the entire range of the keyboard -- will be rewarded as well. Which will thrust that very same company into the limelight and "vault" them into the lead over the competition. Hopefully Roland will be that company and in doing so give new meaning to the phrase: "The Future of Music Production Is Here!!"

Winter NAMM 2013 could be the ticket to stardom for Roland and company but only time will tell. On the other hand, if Roland has decided to "give up" producing any more workstation keyboards then Godzilla (yes, that monster of a KEYBOARD that will put all other keyboards to shame by comparison) will have to proceed from the halls of Yamaha, Korg, Kurzweil or even Casio??? and Roland and company could be relegated to eating the dust of their competitors for the foreseeable future. Eating too much dust can cause a person (or company) to croak, needless to say. Going belly up from eating too much dust is a sure sign a company is on the ropes and out of ideas. Hopefully I'm wrong in Roland's case.

Winter NAMM '13 may tell us one way or the other what we really need to know. If Roland releases a Fantom G successor at winter NAMM '13 it will tell us that Roland is still in the game. If Roland chooses to "nix" production of workstation keyboards going forward (which is actually going 'backward' in my opinion) then hordes and even droves of people may possibly "jump ship" and swim to greener shores and Roland could be relegated to second class status and to eating dust, as they struggle to gain ground and invariably lose market share in the process. Sad, very sad indeed. Perish the thought in fact. I would like to believe Roland is still in the game. But if no 'true' workstation is forthcoming from the halls of Roland Japan... Roland may have just 'struck out' in the bottom of the ninth inning and the opposing team(s) will be ecstatic at the prospect of beating Roland and company... at their own game. GAME OVER!!! Or is it?? ;)

I agree on the 256 polyphony and that the new technology developments can be applied by some companies, but the time to market of new technologies was always a drawback, and almost in all the brands only incorporate new technologies after those become obsolete (Fantom G, XS/XF, OaSYS, etc), as the develop,ment cycle sometimes takes years, not Months...

Game over'??? sure ?
I just ask 2 simple questions...
Is the Workstation Market the only market possible in the future ?
and is the workstation the board most used by professionals out there ? (I mean, do they use only that?)
Don't think so...

Winter NAMM will tell (or not) ;-)
kday
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Re: NAMM 2013 Rumours - new Roland Workstation?

Post by kday »

Roland will never give up making hardware flagship synthesizers. That's like asking Ford or GMC to give up making making big suv trucks because of the gas price crunch and people's desire to buy more fuel efficient smaller vehicles. It will never work, Roland knows if Korg and Yamaha can sell synthesizers then they can too, with the right product. Roland goals was to make that right product.

Roland basically built their company on hardware synth, and folks think they're that weak and blinded to give up the game from a failed vision, or failed synth release?

Computer integration is always the future, but total software synth is not. Hardware is much more profitable than software products, and Roland wouldn't be able to make a Roland sized profit if they converted to abandoning hardware products. Roland will make flagship synths until the end of time, and we'll see their next flagship by 2013-2014.
Devnor
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Re: NAMM 2013 Rumours - new Roland Workstation?

Post by Devnor »

Integra + audio sampling + sequencing = new Fantom

Hopefully we'll get one Live set. Oh and its coming this year.
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Re: NAMM 2013 Rumours - new Roland Workstation?

Post by PauloF »

Devnor wrote:Integra + audio sampling + sequencing = new Fantom

Hopefully we'll get one Live set. Oh and its coming this year.
Amen to that!
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PauloF
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Re: NAMM 2013 Rumours - new Roland Workstation?

Post by PauloF »

kday wrote:Roland will never give up making hardware flagship synthesizers. That's like asking Ford or GMC to give up making making big suv trucks because of the gas price crunch and people's desire to buy more fuel efficient smaller vehicles. It will never work, Roland knows if Korg and Yamaha can sell synthesizers then they can too, with the right product. Roland goals was to make that right product.

Roland basically built their company on hardware synth, and folks think they're that weak and blinded to give up the game from a failed vision, or failed synth release?

Computer integration is always the future, but total software synth is not. Hardware is much more profitable than software products, and Roland wouldn't be able to make a Roland sized profit if they converted to abandoning hardware products. Roland will make flagship synths until the end of time, and we'll see their next flagship by 2013-2014.
Fully agree, now let's just hope that Roland hear us
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Quinnx.
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Re: NAMM 2013 Rumours - new Roland Workstation?

Post by Quinnx. »

Judging from what they have produced so far
I think they have painted them selfs in to a corner..
what they have to offer right now as a new workstation is no more than what already exist on the fantom G
to try offer any of the current tech as a workstation would be too expensive and stupid..

I mean if you already bought a jupiter or integra and they now come out with a workstation with that same tech..
have you just waisted your money??
and if you have not got one of these and they do it anyway arent they then shooting themselves in the foot!!!?
killing these 2 new products with a workstation of the same tech????

Dont see it happening....
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