New Roland Synthesizer Workstation Coming at Namm 2014

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Re: New Roland Synthesizer Workstation Coming at Namm 2014

Postby Leh173 » 13:18, 1 September 2013

kday wrote:Roland offered nothing basically in terms of innovation, but more of the same, more FXs, like who cares, 2 ARX boards, like we're supposed to dig that? It's a great and wonderful workstation for new buyers, but nowhere near enough for their core base of buyers the Fantom X users, who they rely on to sustain the workstation sales market.


I wouldn't underestimate the importance of the FX per part. As long standing Roland user that solved on of the biggest drawbacks most of these kinds of keyboards from all manufactures have had for years. Yes the ARX boards were underwhelming in scope but they are way beyond the stock Fantom X or G sounds in terms of realism and dynamics. Yes it is a great workstation but perhaps it there as more of a "through line" from the X, more X users would have jumped across. That's basically what you are arguing Yamaha got right. Flash memory is only impressive if you use lots of samples. BTW the sample storage on the Fantom G is way better than the X. USB sticks being much faster and more flexible. Mine loads reasonably quickly. Around the same time as a Kronos takes to switch on, in fact a bit faster.


kday wrote:
Motif XF was a major advancement, going from No Flash Memory to having Flash Memory is unbeatable!



Only for sampling...

kday wrote:
Korg Kronos was was a major advancement having multiple synth engines and SSD onboard is also unbeatable.



Yes this had to happen. I applaud Korg for it.

But there is another issue. Do players like the Korg or Yamaha or Roland sound. Subjective value.

kday wrote:
Roland has to come out swinging to compete, they can't risk another lackluster or dismo synth sales year.

That's why Roland is taking a long time, because they have to redesign a new interface, design these new features, new sound cards that will be available for the next synth, new software, new synth engines, Flash Memory or SSD options, etc. They know what they have to come with, or they know if they don't, then their synth department may be looking to have to go out of business.

Yamaha and Korg are on their momentum roll, they've succeeded in retaining or regaining their loyal fan base, so the pressure is much lower than what Roland has to endure. But Roland should succeed, unless they try to offer a rehash of the G with just more sound cards and not too much of anything else that's truly innovative. They need either Flash Memory, or onboard SSD to compete with where Yamaha and Korg are at or where they are heading in the synthesizer design department at the moment.


Generally I agree. It needs to be advanced, sound fantastic and be flexible and easy to use. The user interface on the G is outstanding in my view, not a view held of other workstations. Despite all negativity Roland actually have a lot to build on, they just need to dot the i's and cross the t's

Anyway guys, this subject has been discussed death (including by me) but is all opinions and conjecture at this point. If Art was still here I'd suggest to him to lock the thread, so if you guys agree and the admins think so, lets do it. We've been over all this a gatrillion times. Let's just use the G forums to help each other get more out the what we have. When the new one (if it does) get's announced, lets discuss it then. Just an idea.
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Re: New Roland Synthesizer Workstation Coming at Namm 2014

Postby Jan_nl » 19:23, 1 September 2013

Thus endeth the annual re-enactment of the Fantom tragedy.

Actually, I just read that apparently Yamaha is recycling the XF into a new lower priced MOXF workstation, so I suspect that soon (NAMM) Yamaha will be releasing a new flagship.
So perhaps this time the impending release of a new Roland workstation it more than just a rumor, in which case NAMM 2014 should see the launch of at least two new workstations from Yamaha and Roland, both being their answer to the standard set by KORG's KRONOS.
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Re: New Roland Synthesizer Workstation Coming at Namm 2014

Postby howardS » 19:33, 1 September 2013

Leh173 wrote:

Anyway guys, this subject has been discussed death (including by me) but is all opinions and conjecture at this point. If Art was still here I'd suggest to him to lock the thread, so if you guys agree and the admins think so, lets do it. We've been over all this a gatrillion times. Let's just use the G forums to help each other get more out the what we have. When the new one (if it does) get's announced, lets discuss it then. Just an idea.


I do miss the Art days, Leh173. :) At a minimum I wonder if these wonderful prediction threads should instead be moved to the Free Zone.
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Re: New Roland Synthesizer Workstation Coming at Namm 2014

Postby specialplant » 19:58, 1 September 2013

Jan_nl wrote:Thus endeth the annual re-enactment of the Fantom tragedy.

Actually, I just read that apparently Yamaha is recycling the XF into a new lower priced MOXF workstation, so I suspect that soon (NAMM) Yamaha will be releasing a new flagship.
.


Where did you find that information about an updated MoX??? I am eagerly waiting for a MoX successor!
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Re: New Roland Synthesizer Workstation Coming at Namm 2014

Postby cello » 20:07, 1 September 2013

All interesting conjecture! I can't see there being a new Roland workstation anytime soon to be honest. And just on a technical note, only the G7 has been discontinued. The G6/8 remain with no discontinuation announcement made as yet (although it's only a matter of time).

The Kronos, whilst of good pedigree, probably milks as much as one can from a workstation. But Korg had to half the price point of it (and cut corners to do it - not to mention knowingly disaffect many in the OASYS community). If Roland were to compete in the workstation market, then they'd have to bring something astonishing to the market that broke totally new ground.

I hope we see Roland continue in their current direction; powerfully creative synths. The JP-80 basically turned my studio upside down and the studio is now very different to how it was 2 years ago. And it was all the JP-80's fault! But I love that it happened and what it did for my music.

Each to our own and all that, but I do look forward to seeing what Roland does next; whatever it is, it will not be anything anyone is expecting nor will it make everyone happy! But I'll be first in line to see what it can do ;)
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Re: New Roland Synthesizer Workstation Coming at Namm 2014

Postby Jan_nl » 20:07, 1 September 2013

specialplant wrote:
Jan_nl wrote:Thus endeth the annual re-enactment of the Fantom tragedy.

Actually, I just read that apparently Yamaha is recycling the XF into a new lower priced MOXF workstation, so I suspect that soon (NAMM) Yamaha will be releasing a new flagship.
.


Where did you find that information about an updated MoX??? I am eagerly waiting for a MoX successor!

Here.
For a translation go to the Motif forum where you can read the news in the Mo Lounge.
It seems your waiting days are over with this lower priced Motif XF.
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Re: New Roland Synthesizer Workstation Coming at Namm 2014

Postby Quinnx. » 21:31, 1 September 2013

If your a professional musician and already have a G and maybe the X
are you realy going to get the next release??

The reason i say this is that there is alot more to consider when thinking about getting the next upgrade.

If you have already spend time putting together your sets and sounds on one platform you now have to start all over again if you change and then theres the workflow thing.. which you will have to learn all over again.

even if you decide its going to be a slow transition, by the time you start to feel comfortable with the new platform its probably gonna be time for the next one and thus the cycle begins all over again.

Whatever extra your looking for you more likely and more quickly get it from an add-on especially with the G since it has an external mixer it lends itself very well to this.

Im all for the next latest and greatest if your looking for a new toy and have more money than sense..
but for the professional I think its a major investment and change to look in that direction..
Theres an old saying...

If it ain broken, dont fix it..
same here if its all working for ya dont be in a rush to change.
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Re: New Roland Synthesizer Workstation Coming at Namm 2014

Postby florin2013 » 07:33, 2 September 2013

Jupiter and Integra has NO SAMPLER.
This is the Sampler Era.
Without sampler, anyworkstation is meant to fail.
This is the Remix Looping OverLooping Era.
This is the truth.
And without a new sampler, with flash, and 1GB minimum, with oversampling and looping options, with shorter time for loading, Roland has no reason to waste their time, as they did with Jupiter and Integra.
Yes, Integra and Jupiter have tones of sounds, options...
But without sampler both are just... ... some sound engines. Like some SRX for the Fantom series.
The sampler is just like a car today.
Not an option. It's a necesity.
For bands, studios, and other music productions.
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Re: New Roland Synthesizer Workstation Coming at Namm 2014

Postby cello » 08:35, 2 September 2013

I hear you florin2013 and agree!

A sampler is important these days - the V-Synth has a very good one that is very easy to use.

There is also a need for a rompler (consider it another sound engine).

So, whilst a workstation is a 'one stop shop' which ultimately will be a compromise between sampling, sequencing, rompling and synth engines - another route would be to build dedicated units that specialise in their area, thus offer much more (individually) than a workstation would.

I fancy that this might be the way Roland is going.
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Re: New Roland Synthesizer Workstation Coming at Namm 2014

Postby Jan_nl » 16:55, 2 September 2013

Consider this: the JP was not the sales-hit Roland had hoped, and it is growing old.
Aside from the JP, and the Integra (which was a good move), what does Roland have which might generate sales in the keyboard department?

Because ultimately that is what it is all about: create revenue so that the company can continue to exist.
In order to create that revenue you have to sell products, and if your old product line (no longer) sells that well, you have to come up with a new product line.
I know it sounds very banal if you express all the effort and creativity which goes into making an instrument in purely financial terms, but nevertheless this is the reality for all companies if they want to survive.

That's why I am very curious about the upcoming shows, since Roland has to come up with something new in order to create revenues.
Considering the fact that Roland has practically no presence in the workstation market left and the FG is on its way to its sixth birthday, which is like a super-centenarian in workstation terms, and both Yamaha and KORG are represented by a full line-up of low-, mid- and high end workstations, I think it is very likely that Roland will introduce a new workstation.
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Re: New Roland Synthesizer Workstation Coming at Namm 2014

Postby Quinnx. » 18:25, 2 September 2013

Given that the fantom is the footprint for whatever kind of workstation roland will ever release
apart from gimmicks and what already is available what could they provide that could be new and innovative?
Whatever it is, as i have said before and has happened over and over.. its all recycling which means we already have what could ever be offered in the future.
And they also have to compete on price too..
Producing a workstation is fine but then at what price can they do it at compared to the price the public is willing to pay.
The only thing i can see happening if at all is an integra built like a fantom with an onboard sampler engine.
and see if they can push it out a good price, but once again unless they start discontinuing jp series or drop the price..

it going to be expensive.
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Re: New Roland Synthesizer Workstation Coming at Namm 2014

Postby Vlad_77 » 02:44, 3 September 2013

Jan_nl wrote:Consider this: the JP was not the sales-hit Roland had hoped, and it is growing old.
Aside from the JP, and the Integra (which was a good move), what does Roland have which might generate sales in the keyboard department?

Because ultimately that is what it is all about: create revenue so that the company can continue to exist.
In order to create that revenue you have to sell products, and if your old product line (no longer) sells that well, you have to come up with a new product line.
I know it sounds very banal if you express all the effort and creativity which goes into making an instrument in purely financial terms, but nevertheless this is the reality for all companies if they want to survive.

That's why I am very curious about the upcoming shows, since Roland has to come up with something new in order to create revenues.
Considering the fact that Roland has practically no presence in the workstation market left and the FG is on its way to its sixth birthday, which is like a super-centenarian in workstation terms, and both Yamaha and KORG are represented by a full line-up of low-, mid- and high end workstations, I think it is very likely that Roland will introduce a new workstation.


Hi Jan_nl,

I realize this is the Fantom G section so forgive me for asking but, even if the JP-80 was not a sales hit, I am curious as to why you feel it is growing "old." It's all subjective of course but there are a few musicians hanging about here besides me that would definitely beg to differ. I guess what I am asking is what is "old" about a synthesizer (leaving out the SN bits for now) that:

Each Partial has its own OSC, Filter, and AMP. Three Partials equal ONE Tone. Already this is more powerful than most two OSC synths.

Up to FOUR Tones comprise a Live Set, so, that's 12 OSCS, AMP, and Filters in ONE Live set

Two LIVE SETS plus Perc and Solo form a Registration. If you do the math, this is clearly a very VERY powerful instrument. One Registration can have 16(!) Tones.

What I will concede hurt the Jupiters are the lack of real time controls - the Tone Blender just doesn't quite cut it, and the fact that the Jupiters work in reverse in terms of the way we are used to in that Jupiters start at the highest level, roughly equivalent to what Korg would call a Combi, Kurzweil would call a Setup, and Roland would call a Performance in the Fantoms and Yamaha on the Motifs.

I am merely struggling to understand how an instrument of this kind of power can be thought of as old - and old seems to be a subtext for "boring" unless I am reading you incorrectly. The Fantom G is a workstation and a good one. It's power derives as workstations do from their ability to sample, multisample and sequence plus a good synthesis engine. I don't own a G but I read posts from people like Quinnx and others who feel no need to move to another workstation. I don't get the sense that these musicians feel that the G is "old" for their purposes. I picked up a Kronos in 2011 but not because of its workstation features. I don't really use the sequencer. What I wanted was the synthesis power and Kronos has it. For workstation purposes at home, I STILL use the Fantom X8 and you may think me crazy, but, for me, the X is far FAR from "old." It has the most intuitive sequencer although the 3 MFX are a bit limiting, but, not crippling.

So, I ask respectfully "what do you mean by "old?" If someone gave you a Matrix 12, would you dismiss it because it's an instrument from the 1980s? Maybe I am missing the point?

Best,
Vlad

PS: Apologies Fantom G folks. I didn't mean to hijack this thread but the Jupiter 80 comment really threw me a major curveball.
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Re: New Roland Synthesizer Workstation Coming at Namm 2014

Postby Quinnx. » 04:41, 3 September 2013

So, I ask respectfully "what do you mean by "old?"


I think most people or fooled by the state of technology itself rather than just dealing with the art of making music.
I mean look at something simple like a piano or a acoustic guitar
their form or sound have not changed in how many years??
so as you say.. what makes the G old??
Its not, and as long as it has power it will never get old from a music making point of view.
Technology will obliviously start looking old compared to next latest and greatest but music making will never fade.
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Re: New Roland Synthesizer Workstation Coming at Namm 2014

Postby florin2013 » 07:06, 3 September 2013

You know what I would do?
I would make an update for Integra 7 , that would make a virtual SRX Slot a virtual sampler , like a flash sampler. That would make it the best sound module now.
I would make a SRX - Sampler-Card.
With an update, that SRX could be used as Flash Sampler for: G70, E80, and even Fantom-X.
If that SRX could have 1GB memory Flash, to update the arranger series that have SRX, and the Fantom-X series, would RESELL those keyboards like GOLD.
For Jupiter.. I don't know what Roland can do. Even with a strong Rompler, musicians need samplers. For beats-loops, for new waveforms, like recording traditional instruments, rare instruments, for sampling old keyboards that are in a very bad shape, and could not be repaired to be used in gigs, for any kind of ideas , crazy sounds made by voice, hitting a metal, or whatever the musician can imagine.
And let's be onest, now musicians are used a lot of time to make soundtracks, and even in concerts, they use many many sound effects, that are not in the romplay, but in the sampler.
So, with this updates, with this kind of SRX, Roland could have a revenue like GOLD.
Even a Arranger SRX that could make a Fantom-X a workstation-arranger, or A ARX for the G, would make a year of GOLDEN SELLS.
Imagine a Fantom-G/X that could use the pads as Intro/Fill/Main/Ending, using G70, E80, BK series Styles...
Inovations, not "new" old style keyboards.
If I had the money, I wouldn't buy Integra or Jupiter, just because they are not having anything NEW and USEFULL.
7.1 sounds?
so what?
I would buy a Tyros 4 , or a Motif XF , that Flash sampler , with that loading (almost zero) time?
WOW!
this is the only word that can get out of me: WOW.
Now, what about Roland?
Those lower buttons on the Jupiter? Really? I think they are a pain in the ... hand.
Now try to switch to a button that is right below your right hand when you're playing with both hands...
how can you see thru your hands wich button to push?
7.1 sound and SRX Virtual Slot ? Really? And not to be able to use ALL THE SRX in the same time?
And not to be able to control the Integra from PC? Really?
Now why Roland show us new tech beach and give us like.. three drops of sand?
Imagine a Fantom-Gintegra..
A Fantom with ADAT and spdif, Virtual Slots for SRX, Flash Sampler with 2GB Memory, 512-1024 polifony, unlimiterd user patch, user performance on a hard disk / usb stick , DVI out..
IT IS POSIBLE.
This kind of tech is not expensive anymore.
What is expensive?
THE BRAIN.
They don't want to pay anymore the brain that can make this workstation functional.
The bad boys that can make an OS to support that. The tech is even old. But nobody wants to make the OS.
Yamaha did. Korg , Roland, Kurzweil, and others didn't.
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Re: New Roland Synthesizer Workstation Coming at Namm 2014

Postby Jan_nl » 09:04, 3 September 2013

Quinnx. wrote:
So, I ask respectfully "what do you mean by "old?"

so as you say.. what makes the G old??.

My T-1 is old.
Yes, you can still use it to compose and make music, enrich your life etc, but in terms of features it is by-passed with a large margin by other workstations, and although it may have generated respectable sales at first, gradually they began to diminish to the point where it made no sense for the instrument to be continued.
That kind of old is what I am talking about.

Sure, you can make great music with the Fantom, -although I never connected with it and I most definitely disagree with the classification of 'good'-, but in terms of sales figures it is old, and in terms of features I feel there are better alternatives, although I will be the first to admit that features alone do not make a good instruments.
The sales of the JP is going down the same path as the Fantom, and in terms of these sales figures and the average life-span of a workstation or synth it is aging.

There will always be people who love their 'old' instruments, because they make a worthwhile contribution in their musical arsenal.
That's great, and in that sense old does not exist.
But that is not the 'old' I was referring to.

I am referring to old in terms of the economic lifecycle of an instrument which necessitates new products to keep the stream of revenues in motion.
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