Confused using live set layers in song

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ScottLoiselle
Posts: 12
Joined: 23:57, 12 April 2013

Confused using live set layers in song

Post by ScottLoiselle »

Well, I'm actually confused about a lot more than just this, but I'll just stick to this one thing. The issue is recording a phrase using layered patches in a Live Set, then being able to record separate phrases against it, with the keys then triggering only the newly selected part and sound, and NOT still triggering the live set layers.

I started with a factory reset, using V1.5, all seems fine.

I pull up a Live set: PRST 022 Atmospheric, play some notes, sounds fine. I notice that what I'm hearing is a layer of 7 patches, 4 on the lower keys, 3 on the upper.

I know that the phrases that are recorded in a song can contain multiple MIDI channels (and therefore parts), so I figure I should be able to just hit "record" and the keys I play will record into the phrase, playing all 7 layers. I record some, hit stop and "add to track", go back to the beginning and press play. It sounds exactly like what I heard when I was playing, so far so good.

But now, I want to sequence a drum track against it, using a patch in the ARX01 board, and here's where I crash and burn. I move the highlighted MIDI track from #1 (that has the existing phrase), down to MIDI track 17.

I press "patch" and the Part Select window opens. In the Part Select window, I change Group field from INT to EXP1, but all key presses still trigger the sound of the 7-layer live set, and not the patch 001: ARX Tight Kit, as the window shows. Hmmmm.....

I try going to the highlighted MIDI track 17, go to the OUT ASSIGN field, try changing that from PHRASE to EXP1 - same result, so I return it to the PHRASE setting. I wonder if maybe I'm supposed to be in a Studio set instead of a Live set, so I switch to a INIT Studio User set.

OK, that fixes it so that now, with the Part Select window showing EXP1 ARX etc., the keys trigger the ARX sounds like I want, and do not trigger the unwanted sounds. But now, the previously recorded phrase is triggering only piano sounds, obviously because the 7 assorted patches in the Live set are not the ones used in the INIT studio set.

Sigh. OK.

So I go and write down all 7 patch numbers used in the Live set, and go and change the same part numbers in the studio set to be the same.

Now, it plays and sounds similar, but still not the same as it does if I stop the sequencer, switch to the Live mode, then play again.

So if possible, please teach me how to:
-choose a live set with layers
-hit record play some stuff, hit stop and add to the track
-now figure out a way to select a completely different (previously unused sound), have the keys trigger that so you can record an overdub, but with the keys NOT triggering the sounds from the live set.

PS - I do work regularly with the manual and all the PDF workshops - I'm sure this info is there somewhere - if anyone can point me to it, I'd be happy with that as well.

Thanks! -- Scott
JunoJohn
Posts: 815
Joined: 08:29, 24 February 2008
Location: Washington DC

Re: Confused using live set layers in song

Post by JunoJohn »

You need to turn off the Keyboard Switches for the Parts you don't want to play with the Fantom-G's keyboard.

See: "Fantom-G Workshop 08- Creating Layers and Splits"
ScottLoiselle
Posts: 12
Joined: 23:57, 12 April 2013

Re: Confused using live set layers in song

Post by ScottLoiselle »

Thank you JunoJohn!

So, in order for me to still have access to a Live set that, when loaded, comes up with those 7 parts all enabled - should I save the live set to 2 different live set #s, load the one with the keyboard switches on when I want to just play that set of layers live from the keyboard, and then change to the different #, same live set, but with the keyboard switches off, for when I want to overdub in the song?

And out of curiosity, is your forum name because you dig all Junos, or just the 6 and/or 60, etc?
MrSteveVee
Posts: 65
Joined: 18:19, 12 January 2014
Location: UK

Re: Confused using live set layers in song

Post by MrSteveVee »

ScottLoiselle wrote:Thank you JunoJohn!

So, in order for me to still have access to a Live set that, when loaded, comes up with those 7 parts all enabled - should I save the live set to 2 different live set #s, load the one with the keyboard switches on when I want to just play that set of layers live from the keyboard, and then change to the different #, same live set, but with the keyboard switches off, for when I want to overdub in the song?
The trouble with live play and recording songs is that in the live mode the G is geared up for you to play live with the facility to switch in and out parts as you play. Although you can record the session as a song it is more to record and Idea or a completed session rather than using it to build up a song. It can be done but If you add more tracks you will need to ensure that the new recording layer does not overlap existing layers as effectively if the keyboard switch is “on” all notes played within that parts layer range will sound. Therefore if you have layered part 1 then add a new layer part 2 that overlaps part 1, both part 1 and part 2 will sound for any notes in the overlap if both parts keyboard switches are switched on...tricky!

The Studio mode is of course geared up for song composition and you have full control on what plays and when. The downside is, that the sounds that you want to record are in a live set not a studio set and there is no easy way that I am aware of that allows you to copy from a studio set to a live set, mores the pity. In the PC Editor you can copy one of the parts from a Live set to a part in a Studio set but it seems to erase all of the other parts in the Studio set (most frustrating)

You could I guess record your original song then play back and sample it. Then you could have the sample in a new live set and jam along to that Or maybe you could do something with the RPS but to have a neat way to set up a song from a live set into a studio set would be neat. In the Roland workshop booklet “Sequencing and Recording” they do hint at this in the trackless phase sequencing section that states “ When you perform trackless sequencing, use the current studio set’s sounds. If you’re sequencing multiple phrases you’ll use together, use the same studio set for them all. (You can also use a live set if you prefer.)” but I cannot see how to do this. If anyone knows a way please shout 

Steve
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