CC control of MFX switch or Type

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Andy Keys
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CC control of MFX switch or Type

Post by Andy Keys »

Hi all,

Is there a way to use CC messages to control the MFX on/off switch of a Patch, or the MFX Type?

I know they can both be done with SysEx, but could do with controlling them via CCs if possible. If not, I'll have to fudge it with RPS. :/

Thanks
Andy
rcraven
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Location: Melbourne Australia

Re: CC control of MFX switch or Type

Post by rcraven »

Hi Andy,
Depending on the FX, you can use the Matrix to control the wet-dry mix to remove the FX effect.

You might be better off having two patches (FX and no-FX) that you can switch with a patch change message.
This also applies to changes of the FX Type.

If you need a rapid change, you could set up a performance with the patches on separate Midi channels and play a second keyboard.

You can do it with a controller that sends sysex like the BCR2000 or BCF2000 (you could even plug in a foot switch into them) or there are a few foot controllers that support sysex.

How are you sending the CC messages, the realtime controls?

All the best
Royce
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Andy Keys
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Re: CC control of MFX switch or Type

Post by Andy Keys »

rcraven wrote:You might be better off having two patches (FX and no-FX) that you can switch with a patch change message.

If you need a rapid change, you could set up a performance with the patches on separate Midi channels and play a second keyboard.
Hi Royce, I need to be able to add a bit of phase to 2 separate phrases during an instrumental passage. Phrase 1 clean, Phrase 2 effected, Phrase 3 clean, Phrase 4 effected.

Thinking about it further, I suspect you are right. The phrase happens over quite a small range of notes, but is doubled up an octave. So, I'm wondering now if it might be easiest to create a copy of the Patch (with the effect), and then create a split Performance (with the octave layered so it can be played with one hand), so I can just play those two phrases on the very top end of the keyboard.

Frustratingly, the SH-32 allows you to use a footswitch to turn the Insert FX on and off, but the Fantom involves messing around with CC controls.

The Phaser effects (MFX 11-14, OM p.274) all have a Mix parameter to control the amount of the phased sound, so I could potentially assign that to a controller. I might try that as well, to see which is easier while playing.

I will be triggering the code from an FCB1010, so it needs to be a PC or a CC message.

Thanks for replying,
Andy
rcraven
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Re: CC control of MFX switch or Type

Post by rcraven »

Do you have the UNO Rom fitted?
As I recall the UNO OS FCB1010 will send Sysex , but I think only 5 data bytes, but you should check with Xavier (http://www.ossandust.be).

F0 41 10 00 6B 12 01 00 00 0A 01 74 F7 = on
F0 41 10 00 6B 12 01 00 00 0A 00 75 F7 = off

Will the Patch not change fast enough or do you need to have the Patch Remain set for the end of the MFX phrase?

I don't know what the MFX you are using is, but many of the MFX have Balance or Level for the MFX Control Destination
If it is Balance you are sorted as mentioned before although perhaps it is easier to use the MFX Control Source and set the Sens to -63 .
You can test it with the Assigned Knob 4

If the Destination is Level set it as in the Balance above, but now the whole sound will cut out.

You will need to switch in a clean signal when you cut the MFX so ...
if you are not using the Chorus you can always set it to Delay with 0mS in each delay time ( 0 feed back and 0 HF damp).
Don't forget to turn the Chorus on.
This will give you a clean non-MFX sound that you can switch in and out using the Matrix.
You can still route the chorus thru the reverb.

Use the Matrix with Destination Chorus Send and full Sens all Tones set ON
Adjust the various levels to balance it out.

Set the FCB1010 switch to CC ? 0 and CC ? 127.

Let me know how you get on.

All the best
Royce

Let me know how you get on.
rcraven
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Re: CC control of MFX switch or Type

Post by rcraven »

Hi Andy,

There is perhaps an easier solution using a layered Performance.
The downside is I think you loose the voices even if you can't hear them (I need to check that).

The up side is you can use this technique for very quick patch changes of any sound and because you are changing the Level before it gets to the MFX, the MFX trails will remain and the sound is not abruptly cut off.

My FanX is not here at the moment so the tested example is for the FanS, but it should be similar enough.

Take your MFXPatch and set a Matrix Source to a free CC (eg one of the general ones 16 to 19)
Set the destination to LEVEL. This is the Level as it enters the TVA.
Set all Tones ON
Set the Sens to Max (63)
Set the TVA Level to 0 on all Tones, so the increase of CC17 will increase the volume.
(Unfortunately, setting it to 0 means you loose the Tone mix, but perhaps the MFX will cover this)

copy it to NoMFXPatch.
On the Matrix set the Send to -63
Set the TVA Level to the mix you need on all Tones, so the increase of CC17 will decrease the volume.

Initialise a Performance and set the first two parts to MFXPatch and NoMFXPatch.
Set the Midi Channels for Parts 1 and 2 to your keyboard channel (usually 1)
Set the Part 1 output to the MFX.
Set Part 2 to Output A.

Now a Midi message on keyboard channel of CC17 0 will set only MFXPatch and CC17 127 will cause only NoMFXPatch to sound.

Of course if you set up an expression pedal on the FCB to CC17 you can Xfade between them.

All the best
Royce
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Andy Keys
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Re: CC control of MFX switch or Type

Post by Andy Keys »

rcraven wrote:Do you have the UNO Rom fitted? As I recall the UNO OS FCB1010 will send Sysex
Yes, I have the UnO ROM fitted, but...
I upgraded to v1.0.3 as he had implemented the ability to send values other than 0 when momentary (latch) switches were released (the off value was fixed to 0 under v1.0.2).
v1.0.3 removed the ability to send SysEx, as the strings were too short to be of much use.

The effect needs to be added during a phrase, in two separate places. See the attached, it's that sort of thing (sorry, I can't work out how to make the image smaller!).
7326667_orig.png
7326667_orig.png (16.14 KiB) Viewed 883 times
I think I need to either control the Mix parameter via a CC on the Control Pedal, or split 2 copies of the Patch across a Performance, so I can access both at the same time.

Bloomin' typical: the Phaser MFXs do not have a Balance or Wet/Dry parameter!
Use the Matrix with Destination MFX Send and full Sens all Tones set ON
Adjust the various levels to balance it out.

Set the FCB1010 switch to CC ? 0 and CC ? 127.
This is likely the best way to do it, yes.
Let me know how you get on.
I will do!

Cheers
Andy
rcraven
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Re: CC control of MFX switch or Type

Post by rcraven »

" (the off value was fixed to 0 under v1.0.2)"
The "momentary" code was the bit I wrote, so you can't blame Xavier.
Trying to squeeze far too much code into a small space.
Sorry about that.
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Andy Keys
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Re: CC control of MFX switch or Type

Post by Andy Keys »

Oh, wow! I didn't know you'd worked on that with Xavier :)

I understand all the memory limitations issues. It's still a great pedal board for the money, and v1.0.3 makes it work as I need it to :)
rcraven
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Location: Melbourne Australia

Re: CC control of MFX switch or Type

Post by rcraven »

I hardly did anything. It was about 99.999999999999% his work.
I needed momentary action for a project and he was kind enough to let me add it.
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