Need advice on patches/expansion cards

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Need advice on patches/expansion cards

Postby buminbeer » 06:11, 3 February 2015

I will list the following gear I have with expansions and the will ask the questions.
Fantom X6: Ultimate Keys, World, Complete Orchestra, Supreme Dance (could get rid of this one)
XP-30: Comes with Session, Techno, Orchestral and added Hip hop. One expansion left.
JV-880 stock
U-100 and D-110 and lots of cards (I have never even done much other then turn them on, probably should listen to the sounds I guess?)
Sadly, I want more sounds! I am looking for sounds in the way of the 80's Rush, Saga and Yes type sounds, more analog sounds for 80's type cover bands, progressive rock or new age type styles.

1: I think on the Fantom SRX boards are a lot of repeat sounds I already have? Maybe someone can fill me in on that as I notice I cannot find the Flanged Nylon sound from the JV-880 on either the XP-30 or Fantom. So, I am not sure does the Fantom X repeat a lot of older sounds(but not all), but higher fidelity? Is there a card for what I am looking for to put into the XP-30 or replace the Supreme Dance card in the fantom, without repeating many sounds more towards what I am looking for?
2: Does the XV-5080 download conversion to Fantom, have sounds in none of my keyboards I already have? Also, with the librarian can I chose what 256 patches I want to load to the external card? I ask because I have some of Arti's sounds on the internal patches I don't want to lose?
3: Finally at last, I have been searching for patches, 3rd party for more realistic sounds. Usable new age pianos, guitars, vintage keys and so on. The few that sell patches are mostly for Dance, Hip hop, or just odd film type score sounds that are unusable to me.
Outro: Otherwise, if nothing else is out there to expand on what I have or can use, I'll have to move to another Roland (not sure what as older stuff usually only has 64 -128 patches, not enough) or another brand to fill the void.
Thanks all for even taking the time to read this and suggesting anything!
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Re: Need advice on patches/expansion cards

Postby LA Keys » 08:23, 3 February 2015

Well, the short answer is that you CANT do everything with a "rompler"...

I believe it's time for you to look at something else, maybe an analog synth, or a VA.

Hummm, why not a v-synth if you want to stay with roland brand?
Have a look at this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIq716_A330

Then look at the access virus. You could probably grab a KB or even a KC for less than $1000 on e-bay with a bit a patience. Or maybe a Waldorf micro Q, for under $400 ? If you take your time an wait for a good deal you will be able to resell without any loss if you don't like those. I did that many times...

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Re: Need advice on patches/expansion cards

Postby LA Keys » 08:41, 3 February 2015

Oh yeah...

About your questions:

buminbeer wrote:1: I think on the Fantom SRX boards are a lot of repeat sounds I already have?

This is sometimes the case but some expansion boards have lots of different sounds (new). The SRX-09 World collection is pretty unique. In all cases the samples are usually of much better quality (higher fidelity).

buminbeer wrote:Also, with the librarian can I chose what 256 patches I want to load to the external card? I ask because I have some of Arti's sounds on the internal patches I don't want to lose?

YES. Also you should first backup the sounds (patches) in your fantom using the librarian.


buminbeer wrote:3: Finally at last, ...I have been searching for patches, 3rd party for more realistic sounds. Usable new age pianos, guitars, vintage keys and so on...

The SRX-07 Ultimate keys, that you already have, is probably the nearest thing to what you want. If you cannot find the "vintage" sounds you want there then you probably need to look at something else (like I said in my previous answer)...

Hope this help!
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Re: Need advice on patches/expansion cards

Postby buminbeer » 00:16, 5 February 2015

Thanks for your info. I listened to the various access Virus deals, just not feeling them. They seem more Dance/Tecno/House and just don't like the stock sounds. I had a Juno-106 and liked it better(wish I had never parted with it 15 years ago), but again not trying to do that type of analog either. The Waldorf series, I might look into more.
The V-synth GT is more along the lines, but will cost more then my X6 did with expansions I installed! The reason I don't consider the XT model, is I feel like that keyboard would need a dedicated controller to it. I don't want to reach to a rack to adjust parimeters as that seems like a hands on Keyboard. So it is on my list. I do thank you for your input.
Just keep in mind, I'm looking for sounds like Rush's Power Windows/Hold your fire type sounds, not analog as much. I need punchy 80's type sounds. I have enough "Jump" type patches, hehe. Yes 90125 type sounds. I know a lot of those are highly programmed sounds, but sound like digital sounds more then analog.
If I knew how to program the Fantom or XP-30, I'd be set. The JD-800 sounds great and lots of sliders to help program, but it sounds mostly like it's a pad type instrument, perfect for sound tracks, not so much for 80's type bands, sigh...
Anymore suggestions would be cool, I'd prefer to stay in Roland, but would try something out of the box, but a lot of the older gear(if you can't program it with ease) you get stuck with only 256 patches or so. I just wonder how Saga/Rush/Yes get all their old sounds using newer gear and then I'd be happy :)
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Re: Need advice on patches/expansion cards

Postby LA Keys » 05:51, 5 February 2015

buminbeer wrote:Just keep in mind, I'm looking for sounds like Rush's Power Windows/Hold your fire type sounds, not analog as much.


Geddy Lee did in fact mostly used Oberheim, PPG, Jupiter-8 and later Moog and Fantom x7.
More about this here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geddy_Lee

The thing is that the sounds he's using are mostly 100% analog. Especially on the older albums you mention. To reproduce those sounds you will not only need to have an analog synth, but also to learn how to "program" it. I'm sorry to say that you will probably not find any synth with those sounds pre-programmed for you. You will have to learn to do it yourself...BUT this is the fun part of having an analog synth. You don't rely on pre-recorded samples but more on your ability to craft a sound yourself, and made it evolve the you you want.

A note about the v-synth GT. I strongly suggest that you look at the original v-synth (not GT). I've owned both and often regret selling the original, and keeping the GT. The later is certainly more powerful, but the original v-synth is designed in such a way that it is much easier to create your own sound, with all the needed button and knobs available for this. The good thing is that you can certainly find a used one on e-bay for less than $800 with a bit a patience. But then, once you will have gone thru all the presets you will realize that it's time to learn how to program those sounds yourself because you can do so much more doing so.

Also, the reason why the virus "sound" more techno/EDM is probably because it is much used for that kind of music, which really doesn't mean that you cannot use it for anything else. Most analog synth are about the same, with only subtle difference in the way they sound. At the end of the day programming a Moog, DSI, Oberheim, Waldorf or Virus is just about the same, but may sounds a bit different... You will have to listen to a lot of demo to understand the differences and find out which one sound the best for you. Endless debates about Synth X vs Synth Y are all over the web, and pretty useless to help finding which one sound "the best"...

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Re: Need advice on patches/expansion cards

Postby buminbeer » 03:23, 9 February 2015

I want to thank you for all your time. I had a Juno 106 once(wish I NEVER got rid of it) and loved programming that, hell twist a knob here, slide a slider to see what it does and if no go, try again. The Fantom X and all the versions of the XV/XP type, is just too in depth in menus without say a PG-1000.
I know a lot of Rush/Saga/Pink Floyd sounds are analog, I get that. I guess I was looking for a Fantom X programmed series of "Prog Rock". I think just about any emulation can be done from it, if you know how to program, but sadly, if there are no sliders, I'm a preset guy.
I will look in to Art's book about programming the Fantom X, but you might have me sold on the V-Synth. It sounds great.
I know Geddy later used and is using the Fantom X7 for all his sounds. I am guessing most of those are either sampled off the master tracks or a keyboard tech has reproduced those sounds. Man, I would pay big time for those programs and then be 100% happy in my ever-growing synth addiction! Thanks again and I'll look more into the V-Synth original and (gulp) try to learn how to program the Fantom x...
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Re: Need advice on patches/expansion cards

Postby Credo » 02:08, 10 February 2015

buminbeer wrote:I want to thank you for all your time. I had a Juno 106 once(wish I NEVER got rid of it) and loved programming that, hell twist a knob here, slide a slider to see what it does and if no go, try again. The Fantom X and all the versions of the XV/XP type, is just too in depth in menus without say a PG-1000.
I know a lot of Rush/Saga/Pink Floyd sounds are analog, I get that. I guess I was looking for a Fantom X programmed series of "Prog Rock". I think just about any emulation can be done from it, if you know how to program, but sadly, if there are no sliders, I'm a preset guy.
I will look in to Art's book about programming the Fantom X, but you might have me sold on the V-Synth. It sounds great.
I know Geddy later used and is using the Fantom X7 for all his sounds. I am guessing most of those are either sampled off the master tracks or a keyboard tech has reproduced those sounds. Man, I would pay big time for those programs and then be 100% happy in my ever-growing synth addiction! Thanks again and I'll look more into the V-Synth original and (gulp) try to learn how to program the Fantom x...


While it's not quite the same....don't forget that the Fantom X range does have quite a bit of stuff you CAN tweak in real time via general MIDI CC messages. If you've got a controller decked out with sliders, pots, switches, pads, etc...you can get at quite a few parameters via CC.

Besides what you can set up in the Controller Matrix of a patch (where you can alter an entire matrix of parameters with a single assigned control)...you've also got full time individual access to:
Each tone generator's volume...
Filter cutoff and resonance...
Envelope times...
More than one type of decay/sustain...
Portamento on/off and time...
Vibrato depth and rate...
Reverb and Chorus sends...
Various FX parameters...
More than one type of hold/sustain/legato
And then some..........

Take a gander at the back of the manual to see all the goodies that can be addressed directly via CC messages. Most of them fall somewhere between CC64 (sustain pedal) through CC93 (chorus send).

When I discovered those options...sequencing became a whole lot more fun! I found it much easier to make expression maps and load up an assortment of articulation styles and do some nice timber changes in real time via a single patch. Just popping a couple of CC messages in there to crossfade between tones comes across much smoother than trying to send program changes in the middle of a phrase, and beats the heck out of juggling tracks over different channels. Tweaking filters and envelopes in real time makes for more musical phrases as well.

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Re: Need advice on patches/expansion cards

Postby gearHed289 » 19:19, 30 April 2016

I know this is an old thread, but I stumbled across it in my search for "analog sounds". I've been using a Juno G since about 2008, and I have to say, it does some pretty darn good analog-style sounds. For a while, I was lugging around an Oberheim Matrix-6R because I was so married to some of the sounds. Killer Tom Sawyer sweep and pretty convincing Taurus sounds, plus the classic Subdivisions/Jump brass sounds. I eventually got tired of the extra gear and decided to buckle down and coax some of these sounds out of the Juno. I've been very, very happy with the results, at least in a live setting (I'll still use the old stuff in the studio).

Now I've just picked up a Fantom XR. It's only been a day, but I'm a little concerned about the sounds. I can't find any leads or brass, or even organs that sound as good as some of the stuff that was already in the Juno with no tweaking required. MAN do I wish they made a Juno G rack version....
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Re: Need advice on patches/expansion cards

Postby gcoudert67 » 19:29, 2 May 2016

Have you considered the Jupiter 50?
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Re: Need advice on patches/expansion cards

Postby buminbeer » 03:21, 11 May 2016

The Jupiter 50, without after touch and I don't really need the 76 keys, is kind of a deal breaker. Maybe I'll save up for the 80, but I am afraid as in past Roland keyboards, I'll run into yet another Fantasia sound(already have like 4 versions of it across my boards) and so on. I'll look into the Juno G, but again, I fear that since Roland tends to recycle sounds, not good. I mean, they used sounds from my JV-880 sound banks, then a lot landed on my XP-30, again to only appear on my Fantom X-6. Some of those sounds seemed to start from my U-110/D-110 hehe.
I guess I am not sure what I am looking for, without buying another brand (which outside of one DX-7 that I sold), Always have been a roland/Boss guy. The Fantom G's, to me sound like just updated X's, mostly. The Jupiter 80, I am not sure how much they borrowed, but it seems like a different beast in listening to more then 20 hours of videos, I'm leaning towards that?
Lastly, thanks for all the help guys. One of the guys mentioned CC changes. Let's keep in mind, sadly, I am a preset player type guy. I can't program if you help a gun to me. I know what cc changes do, but not sure how to assign them without diving into it way deeper. The search continues :)
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Re: Need advice on patches/expansion cards

Postby LA Keys » 07:44, 11 May 2016

I just can't resist suggesting the V-synth. Probably one of the most underrated and misunderstood synth ever made by Roland.

Have a look a this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIq716_A330

LA

EDIT: Oh, just realized that I made the same suggestion about a year ago. About the price, you will find that used V-synth (version 2) are selling for much less than the GT version and some of us still prefer them (or the XT model).
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Re: Need advice on patches/expansion cards

Postby buminbeer » 15:35, 17 May 2016

Yeah LA, I still have that on my radar :)
Thanks!
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Re: Need advice on patches/expansion cards

Postby timersk » 18:46, 5 December 2017

I was thinking in the line of buying a SRX07 expansion card but wondering about the MIDI CC capability if you can get the SRX07 sounds in the CC.

Another question: I lifted the bottom lid of my Fantom X7 and see that the memory slot and all four expansion slots are empty. Is this how the X7 comes stock when it was originally sold on the market?

Wondering the easiest way to get the Classic Rock sounds discussed in this thread on the Fantom X7.

Thanks,
Tim
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Re: Need advice on patches/expansion cards

Postby Andy Keys » 14:29, 6 December 2017

Hi Tim,

Yes, when originally sold all 4 expansion ports were empty.
The SRX-07 is great for synth sounds, mellotrons etc.
The one thing I was never happy with the X7 for was organs, but I've recently bought a Ventilator, so I should probably revisit and see what they sound like through that.

Cheers
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