Getting Roland to Act

[davedamn]

My personal major problem lies with the lack of a midi Tx switch. See my post in "Usage with External Gear". Several other Forum members have tried to help me with this problem for which I am grateful. However the problem can really only be resolved by Roland.

My point is that on reading through several other posts from members with problems over "bugs" in the O/S of the Fantom X range. The general opinion by quite a few members including myself is that Roland will NOT do anything about these bugs unless they are innundated with complaints about the problems. I have contacted them myself by email ref my own problem and after at least 6 emails have only got 1 reply which merely stated that this feature was not available on the Fantom X.

I wonder if it would be possible to organise the members of this forum and do 2 things.

Firstly draw up a list of alll the major bugs that are annoying and frustrating owners of the Fantom X.

Then secondly everyone involved send a personal email to Roland about each of these problems to see if we can provoke a positive reaction from them. Or alternatively draw up some form of petition to be sent to them endorsed by all of us.

This keyboard could have been awesome but it has been let down in many areas which are really inexcusable as they are mostly either retrograde steps in comparison with earlier workstations. Or totally inept programming of the O/S.

I hope I am not coming across as totally negative over the Fantom, that is not my intention with this post. My intention is to see if it is possibe to do something positive to make Roland address this keyboards inherant problems.

Any suggestions or ideas anyone?

[NK]

Message deleted per user request.

[Artemiy]

What you suggest is the same thing I did about two years ago. And still, the practise shows that it's better to do it the way they ask - report via local Roland departments. The only thing we can do is indeed make more people report bugs, but we do post the info here on each discovered bug and if people have time they do report them.

[Arghblarg]

I have emailed support@roland.co.uk with bug fix suggestions in the past, including the request for a 'Tx' switch in performances.. they actually took the time to reply with something other than a form letter, stating they had forwarded my requests to the OS team. I would encourage others to do the same.

TIPS: Make a short, concise numbered list of your bug reports and feature suggestions. And keep the letter level-headed in tone -- no customer support team will even consider a letter that sounds angry. .

I am in total agreement with you on the Tx switch issue (and I usually reply to every thread here that mentions it, in case Roland is looking through this site for how often a particular complaint is repeated). It's the major weakness in this board as far as a master controller is concerned.

Error 144 - Reboot y/n?

[davedamn]

I agree you should try to get as much info on a prospective new keyboard as possible before buying it. However keyboards are getting more and more complicated and realistically you will only ever come across every anomaly in a board by living with it for a few months. Most shops don't operate a returns policy although to be perfectly honest my personal problem with the Tx switch is to some extent my own fault as the store I bought it from let me buy it with the proviso that if I wasn't happy I could return it. (I do buy a lot of gear from them and had just bought a Triton Extreme 76 and wanted the X7 to use along side of it. Best of both worlds so to speak). But to be honest I was more interested in exploring the sounds etc. of the X7 at that time, and it was quite a while before I started trying to transfer my sequences from my XP80 to the X7 because coming from using an XP80 as my main keyboard it never crossed my mind to look if they had implemented a Tx switch, such a basic thing on a keyboard of this type. But barring this being my personal problem with the X7. I still think that there are some major problems with this keyboard that should not exist on a keyboard in this bracket and that they should be sorted if possible you only have to look through this forum to see that.

[Quinnx.]

aint hiensight just great!?
NOT!
I which i had that all this information before i bought my FX
and just where do you think this information was at that time??
it certainly wasnt here..


X-Bugs.org
(Become part of the solution)

Results not Excuses




QuinnX universal tranlator below:-
(lets not be misunderstood)

!!!!!! Emphasis not anger
!!?? Confusion or Stupidity
ABC are you getting the point
&*$% Anger (but rarely seen)


Fantom-X6 with Audio Track Expansion (OS 2.0)
Windows 2000
Intel P4 2g
512mb

[illiac]

I'm all for reporting this problem to Roland in any way that's effective. I don't know however why it is considered axiomatic that this problem can be easily fixed in software. Does anyone here really know what the physical signal path from the controller to the MIDI OUT is, and what opportunities there are for software to intervene and turn off the MIDI events by channel on this signal path? If someone does know this kind of thing, I wish they would share with the rest of us where they got the schematics that led them to this conclusion.

-illiac

[davedamn]

axiomatic? oops don't know that word but I'll look it up. I agree if I read you correctly that it is an assumption that fixes are possible via software although I suspect that quite a few are if they are not a major departure from the architecture of the synth whilst other more radical departures from the norm on a particular keyboard may not be. However 2 points:-

1. In my humble opinion the lack of such a basic feature as a midi Tx switch on a keyboard of this kind should have been implemented in the design stages. You must admit the O/S is not very well implemented in many areas or so many people would not I think have so many problems as seems to be the case with this keyboard range.

2. If it is not possible to fix via a software re-write then Roland should tell me so by responding to my emails with that information. I will then shut up about it, make the best of a bad job using the work arounds I have already (i.e. turning off midi Rx on my JV1010). Then just make sure I try not to make the same sort of mistakes in the future when choosing a replacement workstation.

[pea]

First of all, If there is a real problem with a machine I call Roland tech
and ask if I've done all that is possible. This acheives two things. It confirms
the shortcoming of my methods or those of the device, and in a subtle way
registers a concern with the support dept. of Roland (hopefully)

On a base level, I think that Roland has been a bit snitty about
their response to the Fantom series in terms of it's functionality and features. This machine is a departure for them. Those of us with contempt
for it's failings represent rain on that parade, if you will.

I did all I could to research a major purchase in a well rounded sound module. Roland has always made the most sense to me because it's strengths have been in the insturmentation that I use. Good organ, bass, piano and winds. Man did I f**k up. Pardon me but I bought my Fantom
with some crumbs left me by my departed dad. It breaks my heart to own
a box full of bad trance sounds with a couple of good pianos. I shoulda
got a 5050 or whatever and called it a day.

Still I persist...there must be a way. I need to dig into the manual
and find out how to do what I need to do.
To call Roland and have some grizzled, old L.A. hack get defensive
is really just a pisser. To this very morning I work around the problems
and limitations. This is going to make some of you laugh but there are sounds on my roland xp10 that SMOKE those on the Fantom.
My dear compatriots, there is only one true way to have your voices
be heard with any significance. Your votes. Your votes in terms of dollars.
Don't buy their products. That's it. Unless you intend to buy the company
there is little you can do that will have impact. As rash as it sounds
it's not such a bad idea to rally together. Do you know why?
Because of the power of the internet. The potential for a catastrophe might be intimidating enough to effect real change where design is concerned. Understand that I'm not complaining about a feature or a lack
of a feature. I'm complaining about how a 1300 dollar sound module
can't be used as a multimbral sound source without choking on it's own
sophistication.

I have old Roland products that I still value.
But I look at that Fantom in the rack and all i see is something
that frightens me with the rate at which it devalues. I'm considering
bailing on it and going software. I hate going software people.
That is like Superman saying he wants a kryptonite sandwich.
I am so pro hardware it's not funny. But sampletank has impressed
me more than my Fantom. I could go on for days about the attack
on the bass tones...geez. oh well.

[ahasverus]

Well, if the solution is getting as many people as possible to report the bugs to roland, why don't we make it easy. Just make a standard bugreport for each bug. Each fantomized member with that has a problem with the bug can then just copy and paste the report into a mail and mail it to his local roland dealer.

That way roland will get more bugreports just because it is easy to report, and maybe they will do something about it.

[thunderkyss]

I agree with ahasverus.

I'd be more than happy to help you guys, if you made it easy for me.

I use my Fantom as a drum machine/scratch pad, and I haven't come across any shortcomings whatsoever. In fact, the thing is soooo deep, I'll be figuring it out for the next ten years.

But issues like the Tx switch, I agree. The only way I can see this not being in the Fantom, was if Roland expects you to not use any external gear. Which is odd, because they make tons of external gear.

QuinXX.. I'm checking out your site to see if it'll be easy enough for me.

FantomX8
FantomS
AW4416
Now all I need is talent.
Anyone selling any talent??
member # 55
registered 21 May 2003

tundrkys98@yahoo.com Yahoo messenger: tundrkys98

[LivePsy]

Maybe because (good) software developers listen and respond to user requests we now expect manufacturers of hardware synths to do the same. Roland make proprietary hardware and software to make a synthesizer. But they are not a democracy and however they gather feedback from us customers, they have chosen to not widely acknowledge or respond to our requests.

Almost everything that has ever been mentioned on these forums can be implemented in firmware updates via download. Its just a matter of Roland assigning resources to do it. The software changes we got have been minor bug fixes, plus an unexpected audio track feature. It seems to me that a committee makes design decisions and reviewing those decisions or more importantly changing those decisions never occurs.

The Tx switch is gone. No one took it out, it just never got into the design of the Fantoms. The mastering effect got in, and its an after thought without real integration into the fantom. One fixed setting for everything you ever play? No master input and output level on the screen or A/B switching?

Roland's corporate structure and culture works this way. The alternative is to constantly chase a moving target as customers come up with more and more changes. I have a korean digital tv receiver hard drive recorder, and the manufacturers have a presence on the forums. They have to throw their hands up in horror sometimes because whatever one person asks for, someone else claims is a bug. Roland wisely does not get involved in this level of response.

Roland is not a democracy, and they don't have to be. Use your equipment in the best way that suits your music, but I think you have to accept it for what it is.

B

[davedamn]

1. No Midi Tx switch on parts
2. No programmable chain play
3. Really Restrictive File System

[davedamn]

1. No Midi Tx switch on parts
2. No programmable chain play
3. Really Restrictive File System
oops posted twice sorry

[lhm1138]

LivePsy: "Roland's corporate structure and culture works this way. The alternative is to constantly chase a moving target as customers come up with more and more changes.......Roland is not a democracy, and they don't have to be. Use your equipment in the best way that suits your music, but I think you have to accept it for what it is."

It may not be pretty, but it's necessary. Quite frankly, if this is Roland's m.o., it sucks, and if they don't change their ways, they'll be joining the trashheap of dead conglomerates. I don't want "changes", I want my product to work the way it was advertised. I want RPS to work properly, since I bought my 909 based on this selling point. I don't want "changes" I want them to fix the numerous bugs that directly oppose the advertising of the unit's capability. I'm guessing Fantom users are having the same problem. Seems to be a pattern amongst the majors. But at least with Korg, I see Korg reps interact on online communities, I have not ONCE seen someone from Roland interacting with its customers online. What's the difference between Korg and Roland, isn't Korg a japanese company as well? We as a user community send a list of very real bugs to Roland, they don't fix them, instead they give a feature that nobody asked for. I send an email containing bugs of my unit, I don't even get a response....not even a simple "thanks, I'll send this to OS R+D".