Anyone using a midi pedal for hold instead of the direct pedal jack?
Here's my problem:
I'm using, for example, the unmodified preset 1 "Ultimate Grand"
If I plug in a pedal to the hold jack it works as expected which would tend to indicate that the patch is mostly set up correctly.
When I send midi hold-1 (CC64), the tones do not sustain, but I CAN definitely hear the pedal effecting the resonance MFX. I have verified that the pedal is sending BF 40 7F and BF 40 00. The system midi kbd patch Rx/Tx is set to 16. As is the performance control channel. The patch misc is set to Tone Rx hold-1 ON.
Can anyone spot where I'm going wrong here?
midi hold control
Re: midi hold control
Actually I just got this to work by setting system-midi-remote keyboard switch to ON. Not sure why this is necessary or what other side effects this is going to have on my midi setup...
Re: midi hold control
Actually that turns out to be a pretty bad thing to do. Now my second keyboard controls all parts of a performance regardless of midi channel.
This seems to be a bug. I did the following test:
Start recording.
Play a few notes without hold pedal.
Result - no hold as expected.
Play a few notes with a hold pedal directly plugged in.
Result - hold as expected
Play a few notes with midi hold pedal.
Result - no hold NOT as expected.
Stop recording and examine with micro edit.
In the case of the direct plug in hold pedal, a CC64 was received on chahnnel 16.
In the case of the midi hold pedal a CC64 message was received on channel 16 - EXACTLY THE SAME AS THE DIRECT PEDAL!!!
Play back the recording
Result - hold works from either pedal as expected.
So the midi hold pedal works on playback only. very strange.
Since no one else chimed in on the thread I guess nobody is trying to do this with midi, but just in case any one is interested, I did find a work around. You can disconnect the keyboard from the sound generator in the setup menu and then reconnect externally. If you have some way to merge in the midi peadl (I do) then things will work as expected. But this also means that if you want to change to a simple setup for a small gig or something, you have to remember to set it back to connected. Ultimately I got annoyed with this and connected directly to the hold pedal jack. Ticks me off a little, but overall I still love my X7.
This seems to be a bug. I did the following test:
Start recording.
Play a few notes without hold pedal.
Result - no hold as expected.
Play a few notes with a hold pedal directly plugged in.
Result - hold as expected
Play a few notes with midi hold pedal.
Result - no hold NOT as expected.
Stop recording and examine with micro edit.
In the case of the direct plug in hold pedal, a CC64 was received on chahnnel 16.
In the case of the midi hold pedal a CC64 message was received on channel 16 - EXACTLY THE SAME AS THE DIRECT PEDAL!!!
Play back the recording
Result - hold works from either pedal as expected.
So the midi hold pedal works on playback only. very strange.
Since no one else chimed in on the thread I guess nobody is trying to do this with midi, but just in case any one is interested, I did find a work around. You can disconnect the keyboard from the sound generator in the setup menu and then reconnect externally. If you have some way to merge in the midi peadl (I do) then things will work as expected. But this also means that if you want to change to a simple setup for a small gig or something, you have to remember to set it back to connected. Ultimately I got annoyed with this and connected directly to the hold pedal jack. Ticks me off a little, but overall I still love my X7.
Re: midi hold control
Hi RayD
I've never encountered this problem with my X7. I don't know exactly what you mean by "midi pedal" but if you just mean to connect an external keyboard and control the Fantom sounds (including the hold function) from there I've never had a problem with that regardeless of beeing at Patch, Performance or recording with Fantoms sequencer.
When you use a hold pedal directly in the Fantom, the Hold messages will be directed to the part you're selecting regardless of the MIDI channel - meaning the HOLD PEDAL is used "localy". If you use a "midi hold" message it can happen (like it seems to be the case) that you're sending the Hold message in channel 16 but you're actually using another part (not part 16). Is this the case?
Well, that's what the Remote function is for;-)Actually that turns out to be a pretty bad thing to do. Now my second keyboard controls all parts of a performance regardless of midi channel.
I've never encountered this problem with my X7. I don't know exactly what you mean by "midi pedal" but if you just mean to connect an external keyboard and control the Fantom sounds (including the hold function) from there I've never had a problem with that regardeless of beeing at Patch, Performance or recording with Fantoms sequencer.
When you use a hold pedal directly in the Fantom, the Hold messages will be directed to the part you're selecting regardless of the MIDI channel - meaning the HOLD PEDAL is used "localy". If you use a "midi hold" message it can happen (like it seems to be the case) that you're sending the Hold message in channel 16 but you're actually using another part (not part 16). Is this the case?
Re: midi hold control
"Well, that's what the Remote function is for;-)"
Yeah, I kinda figured that out :^)
OK. here's the details of my setup. I'm using an X7, a VK-8, and a Behringer FCB1010. My goal is to be able to use the two keyboards as either a 2-keyboard FX7 or a 2-keyboard VK-8 by simple performance setting changes from the X7 or FCB. And control hold, expression, leslie slow/fast, etc. from the FCB as well. With a ridiculous amount of time spent experimenting, developing work-arounds and a little help from a MOTU midi timepiece II I am able to do most of what I want. But I'm pretty convinced tha the hold pedal issue is a bug.
I understand that the channels have to match up. (Though I wish there was a way to dedicate a channel to omni control).
But forget about performance mode. This is also an issue with simple patches. The X7 is set to send/receive patch stuff on channel 16. The Behringer is set to transmit hold-1 (CC64) on channel 16. I have proved that the messages are coming in by recording them and examining with micro-edit. The recorded midi message is identical for the midi and directly connected hold pedal. Yet the midi hold does not work live. It does work on playback. By the way, the expression pedal, also coming from the Behringer on 16 works just fine. Ditto for patch changes. So far I've only seen the problem on hold. Did someone at Roland think this was a good plan for some reason I can't figure out? Or is it simply a bug?
Anyway, thanks for the interest.
Yeah, I kinda figured that out :^)
OK. here's the details of my setup. I'm using an X7, a VK-8, and a Behringer FCB1010. My goal is to be able to use the two keyboards as either a 2-keyboard FX7 or a 2-keyboard VK-8 by simple performance setting changes from the X7 or FCB. And control hold, expression, leslie slow/fast, etc. from the FCB as well. With a ridiculous amount of time spent experimenting, developing work-arounds and a little help from a MOTU midi timepiece II I am able to do most of what I want. But I'm pretty convinced tha the hold pedal issue is a bug.
I understand that the channels have to match up. (Though I wish there was a way to dedicate a channel to omni control).
But forget about performance mode. This is also an issue with simple patches. The X7 is set to send/receive patch stuff on channel 16. The Behringer is set to transmit hold-1 (CC64) on channel 16. I have proved that the messages are coming in by recording them and examining with micro-edit. The recorded midi message is identical for the midi and directly connected hold pedal. Yet the midi hold does not work live. It does work on playback. By the way, the expression pedal, also coming from the Behringer on 16 works just fine. Ditto for patch changes. So far I've only seen the problem on hold. Did someone at Roland think this was a good plan for some reason I can't figure out? Or is it simply a bug?
Anyway, thanks for the interest.
Re: midi hold control
Hi again,
I don't know what to say.
I've just tested a X6 controled via an RD-700SX and I had no problem with it. I know that this is not the same as using an FCB but we're just talking about MIDI messages so there should be no issue. - The Fantom receives correctly all CC64 comands from the RD. Could I suggest you try to do the same experience but using the VK as controller? (an Hold pedal directly conected to the VK hold input and MIDI out from this one to the X MIDI in). This way you would be able to check the Fantom's behaviour with a "diferent hold pedal" just to check if this happening from the Fantom side or from the FCB side.
I don't know what to say.
I've just tested a X6 controled via an RD-700SX and I had no problem with it. I know that this is not the same as using an FCB but we're just talking about MIDI messages so there should be no issue. - The Fantom receives correctly all CC64 comands from the RD. Could I suggest you try to do the same experience but using the VK as controller? (an Hold pedal directly conected to the VK hold input and MIDI out from this one to the X MIDI in). This way you would be able to check the Fantom's behaviour with a "diferent hold pedal" just to check if this happening from the Fantom side or from the FCB side.
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arthurflink
- Posts: 1
- Joined: 10:51, 30 April 2015
Re: midi hold control
one million years later...This problem is impossible to solve, and must be a bug. Tried using MIDI designer to have more control, including sustain on parts. Tried the decoupling: things went awry with a fast arpeggiator. Bugs me to no end, but I will have to learn to live with it I guess. Still love your fantom?