Fantom X7 to XR and live performance

[rollinsmth]

I have been using my Fantom X7 live for years. I'm starting to have trouble with some of the keys and I am also starting to do flyout gigs. So I had the brilliant idea to migrate everything over to a Fantom XR module. I figured it wouldn't matter what keyboard I use as a controller, it would be easy to fly out with and all my sounds (patches and performances) would be resident in the XR. So I did a User Backup of my X7, took out all the SRX cards, popped them into the XR (same order) and did a User Restore on the XR. I am not using any samples or sequences. I thought this would be piece of cake. My results did not quite work out the way I was expecting. It certainly isn't a duplicate of my X7. Is this not possible to do or am I forgetting to do something quite obvious?

Now the second issue I'm having is that each part in the performance is on a different midi channel. My controller outputs midi on a single channel. I see that the XR defaults to OMNI OFF, POLY mode. I would assume that if the XR were to be in OMNI ON, POLY mode that all would be good in the world and I could play all my perfomances the same as if I were playing the X7. But I can't seem to find how to put the XR into OMNI ON, POLY mode.
Am I missing something obvious here or is this much more difficult than it should be?
Mike

[Credo]

I don't own an X, but I do have an XR........hopefully I can help some.

It may be that the flash card formats between X and XR are not interchangeable?

Perhaps you might have better luck using the Roland Fantom X/XR patch librarian and editor software for PC or Mac to transport your patches between the two Fantoms?
You should be able to find said software here:
http://roland.com/support/article/?q=do ... =FANTOM-XR

With such a set-up, you could set each Fantom to get its own unique ID, plug them both into the same PC at the same time, and dump your sound banks back and forth between the Fantoms. The software would take care of whatever slight formatting differences there might be with the two different Fantoms.

If you happen to use Windows 8.1....you might need to do a bit of manual wrangling (adding some text to a file or two) to get the Fantom USB drivers for Windows 8 to install, but it is rather doable.
Windows 8 drivers can be found here: http://roland.com/support/article/?q=do ... d=62483063

You can find a thread on how to get Windows 8.1 to install the drivers here:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=47635

Alternatively, you can bypass USB and use a 5 pin DIN MIDI interface if you happen to have one of those on hand.

Keep in mind that a complete MIDI bank transfer is only going to work for the temp and User memory areas using the Roland X-Librarian. To get stuff on a flash card, you'll have to build such a card one patch at a time...or...If you're hoping to get an entire bank into the FLASH card memory area on the XR, you'll probably want to take a look at a third party librarian called XLib: http://www.downloadpipe.org/Windows/aud ... om-1235072

To put the XR into single patch mode...
Tap the MODE Button on the XR panel. It toggles between red and green.

When it is red, it is in 'patch mode'. In patch mode, the XR is dedicated to a single patch....all five FX modules are merged and get their settings from the patch as well. You'll want to match the channel number of your MIDI controller to that set under the Menu button. You'll find the patch mode channel under the system menu from there.

When the mode button is green, it is in 'performance mode'. In performance mode you can drive up to 16 patches over up to 16 different midi channels. You can also change a performance so that more than one patch is controlled by the same midi channel...I.E. for layering patches, or even for making complex multi-layered sample playback patches that need more than 4 tone generators (I.E. You could layer 4 patches to get a 16 velocity layer piano 'super patch'. Or you could design split keyboard zones among different patches with a quick and easy edit to each patch...load them all up in a performance, and set them all to the same channel. Now, even though your controller is only sending over one channel...each patch can filter out the unused zone(s), etc.

See the manual for more details on Performance Mode:
http://roland.com/support/article/?q=ma ... id=1811578

To change 'performance patches' on the fly....you'll need to send the valid bank and program change over the channel you've established in menu/system/Performance Ctrl Cn. A performance patch can store your entire mufti-timberal settings (what patches go in what slots)...as well as the performance FX bank.

The XR also responds to the general midi mono and poly mode calls, but those are somewhat channel specific, and it is even be possible to set these modes independently for 'each patch channel' in performance mode. With the Fantom series, these commands are more about how a specific patch is treated, and thus how it deals with controllers like portamento and legato. In mono mode...you can only play one note at a time on a channel, but you get more enhanced and controllable pedaling (and other CC) messages like portamento, legato on overlapping notes, etc. Where poly mode allows chording or divsi...but with somewhat different behavior to those enhanced controllers. I forget what omni does on the XR....so check out the XR manual and experiment for a better understanding of what these calls do on the XR.

It is possible to change the 'mode' of the XR over MIDI using sysex commands. Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be a general midi command to toggle the mode. Reaching out to tap the button on the XR itself is the simplest and most direct way to swap this on the fly. While you can sift through the manual to figure out the sometimes cryptic sysex messages....I personally find it easier to use the X-Patch Editor software for PC...which will show you sysex messages for each control you punch in that editor (it can be cut and pasted), or to simply record the packets from there into a sequencer or DAW for further inspection and management. It's also possible to simply save entire patch, performance, or even global set-ups as a MID/SMF file that can be dumped from whatever sequencer(s) you might use in performance situations.

Patch mode vs Performance.......

Patch mode is quite easy to manage when playing live. All five FX modules will be dedicated to a single patch, and you can only load and play a single patch at a time. The channel of your MIDI controller MUST match the channel you set in the menu/systems section of the XR.

Performance mode is better suited to doing multi-timbral work, Such as playing back a MIDI file, or layering several patches so that they play together. In this scenario, all of your FX modules must be 'shared' among all of the patches in the performance. You do get a good deal of flexibility in how you assign the FX and tweak the sends of them (via MIDI CC messages), but it does require some thinking and experimentation to plan out your performance setups. I.E. That ultimate grand piano patch that sounds so full and rich in 'patch mode' might come across as 'dry' in a performance patch until you go in and design the performance mode to distribute the FX modules as you like.

In either mode, it can be quite handy to know how to change the channel of your MIDI controller on the fly. There may well be times when you want to take advantage of the Performance Mode to make easy key-splits, velocity layers, or cross fades between 'existing XR patches'.

Fire away with any further questions...
Hopefully this post is helpful,
Credo

[rollinsmth]

In performance mode you can drive up to 16 patches over up to 16 different midi channels. You can also change a performance so that more than one patch is controlled by the same midi channel...I.E. for layering patches, or even for making complex multi-layered sample playback patches that need more than 4 tone generators (I.E. You could layer 4 patches to get a 16 velocity layer piano 'super patch'. Or you could design split keyboard zones among different patches with a quick and easy edit to each patch...load them all up in a performance, and set them all to the same channel. Now, even though your controller is only sending over one channel...each patch can filter out the unused zone(s), etc.

Thanks Credo... that's all quite helpful. I think you've hit on the very problem here too. I think you're saying that if I have a performance with 6 parts, I have to edit the performance to change all 6 parts to the same midi channel, let's say ch1. And as long as my controller is set to send on midi ch1 the performance will follow all the key ranges and layers?

Thanks,
Mike

[Credo]

In performance mode you can drive up to 16 patches over up to 16 different midi channels. You can also change a performance so that more than one patch is controlled by the same midi channel...I.E. for layering patches, or even for making complex multi-layered sample playback patches that need more than 4 tone generators (I.E. You could layer 4 patches to get a 16 velocity layer piano 'super patch'. Or you could design split keyboard zones among different patches with a quick and easy edit to each patch...load them all up in a performance, and set them all to the same channel. Now, even though your controller is only sending over one channel...each patch can filter out the unused zone(s), etc.

Thanks Credo... that's all quite helpful. I think you've hit on the very problem here too. I think you're saying that if I have a performance with 6 parts, I have to edit the performance to change all 6 parts to the same midi channel, let's say ch1. And as long as my controller is set to send on midi ch1 the performance will follow all the key ranges and layers?

Thanks,
Mike

Yes, all of the patches can then be triggered.
Note, you might have to go in and tweak the individual patches themselves if you want split zones, crossfades, velocity layers, and things like that to happen across all of the patches on a given channel. Otherwise hitting a key would trigger ALL of the sounds assigned to that channel.

Example: Making a split zone deal with bass and a ride in the left hand, and piano in the right.
You'd want to go into a copy of your bass patch and set it up to only respond to your left zone, save that patch somewhere, then do the same for the ride cymbal patch, and finally the piano. Then you'd be ready to set those patches up into a 'performance' and use them all together over the same channel.

For layers, you might also need to tweak the initial gain of each patch so that layered patches have the balance or mix you're seeking, and moving something like a volume CC 7 slider would keep all the patch volumes relative to what you desire.

Likewise, if you're doing velocity layers between patches in performance mode....you'll need to tweak the patches themselves to only respond to the velocities intended.

For slider or wheel driven crossfades, you'll have to cross reference your midi controller matrix in each patch so they respond as you like.

It may be that many of your patches are already set up for this from your old X7 setup. If not, it's not terribly hard to go in and tweak the patches to layer up as you intend. Just takes a little practice at first.

When it comes to designing your setups....I do highly recommend grabbing the Fantom X computer editor, as that tiny little screen on the XR doesn't do it justice...........it's a pretty deep synth with a lot of powerful stuff at your command, which can be harder to find, understand, and implement with that tiny screen and menu system.

Seeing the XR through the eyes of that editor opens up a whole new world....where the instrument becomes a WHOLE lot more intuitive.

One thing about that Editor Software to consider....it was designed when screen resolutions were a good bit smaller than they are today...so if you've got bad eyes like me, you might want to drop your PC's display to a lower resolution while working with the X Editor (for me, any resolution above 1280x1040, and it gets really difficult to see and click)....otherwise it can come across as painfully small.

May the music be with you....

[WorldBoFree]

I'm having a somewhat similar issue, but it has to do with the next step.

I transfered all my patches and samples from the X8, to the XR rack. Then after the humidity seemed to stop the flash card from loading on a gig, I decided to get another XR for a back up.

I saved all the flash card information on my computer via USB, then loaded that exact information on another flash card.

Everything is working great!! Except for two minor things of course....

There are two patches that I intitally edited on the FantomX8. The Tre EP sound, I changed the panning or tremelo a bit, and then another preset patch I changed a little bit as well. For some reason, those sounds are not playing with the correct effects. I went through every parameter imaginable in part view to make sure each rack was the same, but something is still off.

Just for record, the way I got these patches in the first place was I saved them to the flash card straight from the X8, and then the XR loads them in at start up.

Any thoughts on what might be different between the 2 racks?

[Credo]

One thing that comes to mind:

I'm not sure how many audio outputs the X8 offers, or how to go about assigning patches to use them, but the XR has a few options you might check that may well be different from the X8.

The XR does have two sets of stereo outputs to choose from. It also has a master compressor option, and a spdif output.

There are options to route signals directly to an output so they bypass the effects units, or to take advantage of the effect chain MIX. It may be that for some reason some of your tone generators are sending stuff to the wrong outputs or effect chains.

You might want to check those?

Also...double check the FX chain as well. These can be drastically different depending on whether you're using "Patch Mode", or "Performance Mode". So, try your suspect patches in both Patch and Performance mode if you haven't already.

It might not hurt to check out the MIDI Controller matrix of the suspect patches as well. There might be stuff that just worked on an X8 (After touch, or a mod wheel for example), yet requires some special controller information to be properly set up to match your present controller set-up on the XR.

If all else fails...load the closest thing you can find from the factory patches to what you're wanting, and try doing your personal tweaks from scratch on the XR?

Credo

[Andy Keys]

Is there no keyboard switch in the XR?
On the X you can tick a switch to enable (or disable) the keyboard to trigger a Part in a Performance.

That would strike me as being a fairly basic requirement of a multi-timbral module.
It is equally possible that my lack of caffeine this morning has confused me.

Andy

[Credo]

Is there no keyboard switch in the XR?
On the X you can tick a switch to enable (or disable) the keyboard to trigger a Part in a Performance.

That would strike me as being a fairly basic requirement of a multi-timbral module.
It is equally possible that my lack of caffeine this morning has confused me.

Andy

In the XR, since it doesn't have a MIDI controller/keyboard/wheels/sliders/etc. of its own, that is done through a MIDI channel.

You set each part of a performance to whatever channel it should respond. Many of the factory default 'performance patches' are set up kind of like a General MIDI instrument...where each part gets a channel of its own, 1-16.



If you want more than one part layered, then you set all the parts you want to trigger at once to a duplicate channel. Of course you then must make sure what ever you are using as an external controller/keyboard is sending everything you need over that channel. Note: Alot of dedicated MIDI controller boards and wind jammers can send stuff over multiple channels and ports all at once. I.E. Half the board over channel 1, another half over 2, the mod wheel over 3, sliders and pedals over even more variations of ports and channels. So...when stuff is missing or doesn't sound right...that's usually the first place I start trouble shooting with my Controllers, DAW, and XR.

Patch mode also has a channel that you must set so the XR knows where to listen for an external controller/sequencer input. If this is set wrong, you simply get 'nothing' when you play your MIDI keyboard.



There's also a midi control matrix where you can set your main default controllers (SYSTEM-CTRL SRC 1-4) for stuff like the Mod wheel, expression slider, breath, foot controller, etc. You get 4 'default slots' that can act as a sort of 'variable' across all your patches. I.E. You could change the global SYSTEM CTRL SRC 1 from Aftertouch to Mod-Wheel, and it'd apply to all the patches that use SYSTEM CTRL SRC 1 as a midi controller.

Deeper into the patches you can apply one of the globally set 4 main SYSTEM CTRL SRC variables to a long line of parameters (4 at a time I think)...or you can elect to split off from those 4 main global variable slots to instead hard patch a specific CC number if you prefer. I.E. If you have a patch that you know you'll always want to use CC68-legato on a stomp pedal (such as killing tone 1 that has a sustained trumpet sample and turning up tone 2 that has a trumpet shake sample), then you could hard code CC68 to that patch rather than using one of your SYSTEM-CTRL SRC variables.



The XR also has a polyphony expansion mode. In this case it can simply sync up with another Fantom X series instrument that is properly connected via MIDI cables...and if the first Fantom runs out of polyphony it'll forward events to the second Fantom and use its synth engine and audio outputs to play the overflow tones. For this to work, both Fantoms do need duplicate sets of patches loaded in the same bank/program slots. Also both Fantoms would need to be patched into your audio mixer.

As for checking the audio signal routing of a part in performance mode, that's done here (note each part has its own routing matrix):


Don't forget that in performance mode, all of the parts/patches must 'share' the Fantom's 5 FX units. You can route entire parts through these shared FX units as you like. For the effects to work, they must be 'enabled' and the levels and send routing set to the appropriate output(s) desired.

In patch mode it's done here (note that each tone generator can be routed independently:


Don't forget that in patch mode, the patch has access to all 5 FX units on its own, and they can be divided or shared by individual tone generators. For the effects units to work, they must be enabled.

You also get a final compressor/limiter effect (MASTERING) at the end of the chain if you desire. It works the same for patch or performance mode. If my memory is correct, this can only apply to Audio Outputs A and the SPDIF output.

Also, don't forget that if you're using X-Editor your stuff will be resident in the XR's temp memory, so don't forget to save your patches and performances on the XR panel itself if you want them to be stored in USER or CARD memory!

Credo