Fantom in Logic Pro X - MIDI Instrument Patches - Help!

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stevel
Posts: 520
Joined: 07:08, 17 May 2015

Fantom in Logic Pro X - MIDI Instrument Patches - Help!

Post by stevel »

I have a Fantom XR rack so I hope maybe it's similar enough and someone's using Logic Pro X (though I'm coming to understand prior versions are not so different for my question).

I'm trying to set it up so that I can select all the Patches in the Fantom XR.

I used to use Cubase and you could import patch scripts. Apparently either LPX doesn't have this capability or Roland doesn't make the scripts.

I did find an "environment" online.

But I just can't get it to work. Today (I've been trying to figure this out for 3 weeks now) I finally made the most progress.

What I'm doing is importing an "environment" file into a Layer in the MIDI Environment.

This shows up as several Multi-Instruments - the Fantom patches, the Rhythm Sets, the GM patches, and several SRX banks (which I don't need). Whoever created this has cables linking together the different multi-instruments which then goes to a "cable switcher".

I've not been able to figure out how to get signal to and from these things, nor have the correct patches show up in the Inspector - all I can do is select the 128 GM instruments.

So today, I took the MIDI Instrument, which seems to have been created because of the Device I created and connected in Apple's Audio/MIDI Utility (I have a Motif Rack ES that is connected similarly and also appears in the MIDI Instrument window) and I manually copied and pasted all the names from the imported multi-instrument. I also manually copied the "custom bank messages" (because none of the other settings would work and that's what the imported file used so that's what I assume the creator of the file had to do) into my MIDI Instrument.

POW! It worked :-)

I can select patches in each of the first 9 banks for all the internal Fantom sounds.

But, the problem is, I have no Rhythm Sets. That's a different Multi-Instrument in the imported environment.

I tried to copy the custom bank messages for the Rhythm Set, thinking I'd put those in banks 10-13 or however many there were (which is actually how they used to be in Cubase - all the preset sounds first then all the drum which started in 12 on that I think because there were some card banks or something for the first couple).

When I copied the custom bank messages for the Rhythm Sets, it wanted to put those in banks 1-4 and overwrite the other ones I already had in there. I tried a couple of ways but couldn't get them into bank 10 and above. I could delete the others, and put the Rhythm Sets in and then change the numbers so they'd be in bank 10, but they wouldn't change to the right sounds or anything.

But it seemed like it *should* work. It's possible I pasted wrong or something - I was getting tired - but I tried it a number of ways.

I'm almost convinced that the creator of the file had to hook these different multi-instruments up with cables do the "cable switcher" for that same reason - because each "bank" starts with its own bank 1.

The problem is, the cable switcher doesn't go anywhere.

Interestingly, I was able to mess with it and when I created a new track, it would come up with just the Rhythm Sets. I'm not sure why though. I think it's either because that was the multi-instrument selected, or because the Cable Switcher was on 3, which the Rhythm Set is the 3rd thing connected in line.

I tried selecting other things though and the Rhythm Set would still come up - and when going back to the window would now be selected. But the patches and banks for the Rhythm Set did come up and play correctly. So the Sysex numbers included in that multi-instrument must be correct.

But I can't figure out how to get these three multi-instruments I need - XR Patches, Rhythm Sets, and GM Patches to be "selectable" in the Inspector. I can get one of them to work, but not more than one. I've tried everything I can think of. I've asked on every forum I can think of - just seems people don't use this particular synth with Logic.

I thought if I could just copy everything from the 3 necessary multi-instrument into all the banks of my Midi Instrument, that would work - but can't get it to.

So I'm thinking the cabling has to have something to do with it.

I can select either the Fantom or Motif in the Inspector - those were initially the only two in the MIDI Instrument window. But simply copying these other Multi-Instruments into that same window and connecting them doesn't make them available to select in the Inspector.


Maybe I just need to give up on the external MIDI synths - which is what it seems like Apple wants us to do as support for them seems to pushed way back. I'm hoping maybe the Motif might be easier to set up and maybe I'll go in and try it instead.

But sheesh, this has got to be the most counterintuitive thing I've ever encountered (the MIDI Environment) and it doesn't help that support for the XR is gone (at least the Motif had a USB driver).

Help?
Please.
Credo
Posts: 62
Joined: 10:38, 29 January 2015

Re: Fantom in Logic Pro X - MIDI Instrument Patches - Help!

Post by Credo »

If all else fails, load up the X Editor and do your initial setup. Save your performance/globals as a sysex smf or mid file to import into your DAW as a prep bar.

http://roland.com/support/article/?q=do ... =FANTOM-XR

The Mac version is no longer on that site. It's possible to find the old Mac version on archival sites like softpedia BUT:
Sadly, I think the latest Mac OS versions ( Anything beyond Leopard? ) no longer work with the old 68k or PPC coded applications, but you might be able to get a Windows version working in a small Virtual Machine (Requires a copy of whatever version of Windows you want to run), or through something like Crossover or WINE (Doesn't require you to own/install Windows). ( http://www.howtogeek.com/187359/5-ways- ... -on-a-mac/ )

To me it'd be worth it, as that X Editor really does make working with the XR much easier and more intuitive. It allows you to tweak, cut/paste parameters, and make libraries of pretty much anything in the XR. As you touch controls in the UI, it also shows you the HEX or sysex messages in case you want to copy and paste things right into a DAW track. Even if you find yourself in a situation where the X Editor can't get access to a MIDI port to talk to the XR directly, you could still set things up and save the smf/mid files and load them into the DAW to send.
Image

When it comes to doing bank and patch-changes mid-stream, either make the change then cut and paste the HEX from from X Editor as sysex into the DAW, or just look in the manual or SRX guide for the standard MIDI commands and pop them into your tracks by hand. Even with CuBase 8 and really good instrument profiles, I still find myself using the X Editor most of all, and sometimes pulling out the old manuals (or opening my XR CuBase profiles) to get patch and bank numbers (I usually only bother with bank/program changes if doing a GM or GM2 file that need to be compatible with any GM synth...otherwise I just dial it up in X Editor and cut/paste it into the DAW as HEX/sysex).

Note, in quite a few cases, the HEX commands shown on the X Editor look like sysex, and you'd probably paste them into a DAW as sysex, but they're actually just HEX formatted for standard MIDI commands. Some DAWs might translate that into standard MIDI commands in the sequence, while others might just treat it like sysex packets. Either way...it should work :)

I've also been able to route the X Editor MIDI output through a DAW track and record tweaks live on the MIDI track. That's saved me a ton of trouble in terms of trying to build full blown sysex aware native CuBase automation profiles for this old synth. The main reason no one ever made a full-flege Fantom profile for CuBase (and other DAWs)...is because all the work was already done in the form of the X Editor. It worked so well for so long, that no one really saw a need to make custom profiles for every DAW out there. Too bad Mac pulled all the m68k and PPC support from their OSes (Back when the Fantom series was produced, all Macs were m68k or PPC)...but there is still hope :)

So, if you can find a way to get X Editor loaded on a Mac, you're guaranteed to at least get snapshots that can be imported into the DAW as smf/mid, and you still get to see the HEX/sysex messages that can be copied and pasted into DAW tracks. If you can also get the MIDI ports connected between the Mac OS and the Windows Emulation, then you can actually use the thing for recording live changes, or even mixing through the X Editor.

I don't have a Mac here to work it all out, but there's got to be a way to bridge the MIDI between a VM or Wine with native Mac stuff. My understanding is that Wine uses the Mac OS Core Audio system OOTB ( http://wiki.winehq.org/MIDI ) and should be able to tie together with your native Mac MIDI software without much fuss....at worst you might have to resort to using bojour (On the windows emulation side, as Mac OS already has the bits for MIDI over IP) and use MIDI over ip to create a workable link, but it should be possible to work out.
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