USB is MIDI only! (old D70 + Sonic Cell seems nice alternati

[Wilmar]

I downloaded the manual and there it is on page 92:

" Only MIDI data can be transmitted or received via USB. "

It has the Sonic Cell engine, it has the Mic input, it has a vocoder, it has a USB connector, BUT NO AUDIO OVER USB!

Please, this could be a great performing keyboard on stage and songwriting keyboard at home. I really hope a firmware update would add audio over the USB. It's a deal breaker for me.

Coming to performing: where are the sliders, 4 would be enough for me.

Adding a Sonic Cell to a Roland D70 from ebay will give the same sound, plus audiointerface, plus sliders, plus aftertouch, plus some very fat warm pad's from the D70 as a bonus. An A70 + Sonic Cell is also a nice combination with a great keybed but not the extra sounds.
But at the expence of a vocoder, choices choices.

[javaj_]

The thing is- Roland could put the vocoder effect on the Sonic Cell with a BIOS upgrade- it is the only addiional MFX the JS has. I bet they won't though- not sure now many people would make that a primary reason to buy it.

[JunoJohn]

The back panel USB port on the Juno-Stage has "USB MIDI" printed above it. I think that makes Roland's intentions clear.

Don't put any hopes on an USB Audio update.

[Wilmar]

But I don't think Roland did design new hardware. As far as I can see they did repackage existing hardware. Then I assume they simply did strip the Audio-USB in the software for marketing and sales reasons. Don't you think? And I think the're wrong with that decision. Not everyone has the money to buy a Fantom-G. The Juno-Stage with audio interface really could funtion and sell like a poor-mans Motif, Fantom, Triton. It's not stealing buyers from the Fantom. It's loosing buyers that can't afford the high-end workstations anyway.

[Wilmar]

Are there any more people that would consider a Juno-Stage more seriously if it had a audio-interface (along with the vocoder).

[JunoJohn]

Yes, me!

I don't know how Roland makes its design decisions. Maybe the engineering of the SonicCell and Juno-Stage makes it impossible to have both USB-Audio and a vocoder in the same device. On the other hand, maybe the Juno-Stage's design is completely different from SonicCell, so comparisons between them are irrelevant.

[javaj_]

Juno Stage and Sonic Cell have near identical patches and waveforms. they are definately from the same family.

[PauloF]

"Maybe the engineering of the SonicCell and Juno-Stage makes it impossible to have both USB-Audio and a vocoder in the same device"

JunoJohn,
From what I know about technology and synthesizers, the Vocoder function has nothing to do with the USB audio, so that is not a limitation, but just a design decision.

The Juno-Stage is a stage device, made for playing live. The Sonic Cell is more a kind of a "hardware DAW", so it's USB Audio is almost a "must". They complete each other, not compete with each other, IMHO of course.

Take care
PauloF

[Parsifal]

Although I'm almost certain Roland won't change a thing to their stuff in such a short notice, I STILL think there's a mistake out there: the Stage should get aftertouch instead of the vocoder and the GW8 should get the vocoder in turn...
I have the distinct feeling that the Stage will fall through the market niches: being not good enough for either pros or amateurs... You don't give a 76-keyboard to a beginner, neither he wants a vocoder or a smf player. If he's into playbacking something, he - for sure - will get the Juno G. It has a sequencer, remember? Also no beginner will need a SRX expansion... but I bet he'll appreciate a better keyboard to hone his piano skills on...
Roland might want to try something new... like putting the innards of the Stage in connection with a PHAII keyboard with velocity AND escapement... this way a new buyer might get the best from 2 worlds and in an atractive package: a moderately-featured synth and an uncompromising piano-styled keyboard (which all - pros and newb - want). The actual Stage is neither THAT cheap to attract beginners who want a cheap synth (and I can bet no beginner will ever consider getting his first synth stripped of workstation features) nor fully featured to attract seasoned players - who want a fully performable keyboard. Oh, and don't expect people with enough cash in their hands being bothered with a synth without aftertouch and also without an AC inlet...

[raccoon]

...piano-styled keyboard (which all - pros and newb - want).

having played the piano for decades i am used to the weighted feel of the keys. however, i absolutely cannot stand this action on a synthesizer/workstation. in my opinion, it's a detriment when playing anything other than piano. i suspect there are others who feel that way.

p.s. what is the advantage of having a power supply built into the keyboard?

[2TIM316]

I use the D-70 plus the Fantom-XR as my live setup. It works well since the D-70 has great master keyboard functions. I can set up 4 zones and control assignment of pedals, as well as assign the zones to the sliders. But the D-70 is coming up on 20 years old. Not that easy to fix or get parts for. And the 2 units together weigh around 37 pounds. And require 2 AC and a MIDI cable to make work.

The Juno-Stage is the first instrument that seems to be able to replace my setup at a reasonable price and is designed for what I'm looking for. For live players, I'm not sure how important USB-Audio is. That's an interface for computers which you can pick up for around $100. Roland workstations have doubled as USB-MIDI controllers for years now, but I would never expect USB-Audio as part of the mix.

What appeals to me most about the JS is the weight, the price, the (supposed) good feeling keyboard, and the other features. It looks to finally address the needs of live players. I've seen and played the Fantom-G, and while impressive, it's way more than I would need for live gigs. I would just want the upgraded sound. That's why if they had released a rack version, I'd have been all over it. I still have a feeling a 2 space "G" rack may appear at WNAMM 2008, but that's another story.

In the meantime, I can't wait to get my hands on a JS to see how it feels and how it sonically compares to the "G".

raccoon - built-in power supplies are really convenient. A wall-wart or brick power supply is an annoyance when you're moving your gear alot. Believe me, I've had and used both. You always want a built-in when possible. Re: weighted vs. synth action. Agreed, weighted is preferred. But again, when you're talking about moving gear alot, you want the lower weight (unless someone else is doing it for you or you just like loading 60 - 70 pound 88 note weighted keyboards). So you compromise. I just hope the JS has the good feeling keyboard that Roland claims.

[javaj_]

Sonically- it will be the Sonic Cell- it has nearly identical patches and waveforms.

[PauloF]

"Sonically- it will be the Sonic Cell- it has nearly identical patches and waveforms"

I think you're right javaj,
Reading the specs, Sonic Cell seems to be a kind of a Juno-Stage, without the keys and the controller knobs (and without the D-Beam )

[javaj_]

and without the vocoder mfx.
I don't know why but I really really really want that added to the Sonic Cell. Funny- I don't know if I would use it much- it seems like a fun toy (I wonder if I should just find a free vsti that does the same thing).

[Radek]

I don't know how Roland makes its design decisions. Maybe the engineering of the SonicCell and Juno-Stage makes it impossible to have both USB-Audio and a vocoder in the same device.

Probably there would too much overlapping in features and USB audio capable Juno Stage could eat into SonicCell sales?
(or even Fantom-G and some plain Roland's (by Edirol brand) USB audio interfaces)