Horn Patches Sound Like a Kazoo Band
Horn Patches Sound Like a Kazoo Band
I have been using my Juno DI to try to re-do some old Chicago songs. I chose alto sax, trumpet, and trombone. When I play triads together with these horns it sounds like a kazoo band! Any suggestions?
Re: Horn Patches Sound Like a Kazoo Band
Figures - absolutely no response from Roland.....
Re: Horn Patches Sound Like a Kazoo Band
brubenzer
Your entry of 30 April caught my attenton. Since you don't seem to be getting any other replies, why don't you list the specific tone names and numbers you are talking about. I have a copy of the Di manuals, and I will try to pick out the closest equivalent tones on my Gi and see how they sound. Some or all of them may be the same, as the tone architecture of those two units is pretty much the same.
You don't say if you have the Di connected to a PC DAW. If you do, and it is one of those that sends a GM or GS reset when it comes up, it could be bringing up the GM voice set on the Di that certainly would not sound as good as its native panel voices.
I do not know if this is a Roland owned/sponsored/operated/supported board or if their engineering or customer support staffs even monitor it. Maybe Artimey can answer that for us.
Regards,
Ted
Your entry of 30 April caught my attenton. Since you don't seem to be getting any other replies, why don't you list the specific tone names and numbers you are talking about. I have a copy of the Di manuals, and I will try to pick out the closest equivalent tones on my Gi and see how they sound. Some or all of them may be the same, as the tone architecture of those two units is pretty much the same.
You don't say if you have the Di connected to a PC DAW. If you do, and it is one of those that sends a GM or GS reset when it comes up, it could be bringing up the GM voice set on the Di that certainly would not sound as good as its native panel voices.
I do not know if this is a Roland owned/sponsored/operated/supported board or if their engineering or customer support staffs even monitor it. Maybe Artimey can answer that for us.
Regards,
Ted
Re: Horn Patches Sound Like a Kazoo Band
This board is not official, nor sponsored, nor frequented by Roland as far as I am aware. Dan K. occasionally pops in when a new product is released, but that's about it. I'm not aware of any staff who read it in their own time.
Re: Horn Patches Sound Like a Kazoo Band
Thanks, Andy !
That's pretty much what I expected, so brubenzer would have been waiting a long long time if he was expecting a response from Roland.
Ted
That's pretty much what I expected, so brubenzer would have been waiting a long long time if he was expecting a response from Roland.
Ted
Re: Horn Patches Sound Like a Kazoo Band
I use the following:
811 Br097 Alto Sax MSB 121 LSB 0 PC 66
729 Br015 Solo TP MSB 087 LSB 067 PC 109
736 Br022 Solo Bone MSB 087 LSB 067 PC 116
My DAW is Power Tracks Pro Audio. I can record both midi and audio tracks.
Any help appreciated!!
Bernie
811 Br097 Alto Sax MSB 121 LSB 0 PC 66
729 Br015 Solo TP MSB 087 LSB 067 PC 109
736 Br022 Solo Bone MSB 087 LSB 067 PC 116
My DAW is Power Tracks Pro Audio. I can record both midi and audio tracks.
Any help appreciated!!
Bernie
Re: Horn Patches Sound Like a Kazoo Band
Bru . . .
How a system sounds can be very subjective. I am not sure if you have a problem with your set up, or if you were just expecting more from your Di. Most modern keyboards actually contain two separate voice (sound) sets - the high quality "native" or "panel" sounds (that you really bought the unit for) and a GM or GM2 (General MIDI) voice set to ensure some form of compatibility with any GM MIDI file you might send to it. The GM sounds are usually polyphony saving, small sample sounds of dubious quality that were developed back in the 90's, although I do have to say, in most of today's keyboards, the GM tone set is much better than those of some years ago. Of the tones you listed in your mix (On the Gi, that's known as a LiveSet), the solo sax and the solo trombone are Di "native" tones, but the alto sax is a GM tone. I have the same exact tone on the Gi. Any tone on your Di that has an MSB of 121 is a GM tone. I can't believe that one GM tone in your mix would sound that bad, unless you have a very critical ear. To my surprise, the Gi does not have a "native" trombone, so the LiveSet I came up with uses one Gi "native" tone and two GM tones, but to my ears, it doesn't really sound all that bad. I have attached GI-BRASS.WAV using the Gi's LiveSet preview button so you can hear what I came up with. I have tried to match your tones as best as I can guess. If this sounds really bad to you, I would say that you have a critical ear and are just expecting more from the Di than it is capable of, but if your mix sounds a lot worse than mine, then I would say the you have a problem with your set up.
Power Tracks Pro is a PG Music Program. Both Power Tracks and Band-in-a-Box have an option to send a GM/GS reset to the keyboard at the start of a song. That will throw the entire keyboard into a GM/GS sound mode, so make sure that is not turned on. Also, if you are using your PC's audio system as the amp for the Di, make sure Power Tracks has not dropped back to sending MIDI to the Microsoft Wavetable Synth instead of the Di, and that's what you are hearing instead of the Di. Power Tracks will do that from time to time.
Good luck with this.
Let us know how things come out.
Regards,
Ted
How a system sounds can be very subjective. I am not sure if you have a problem with your set up, or if you were just expecting more from your Di. Most modern keyboards actually contain two separate voice (sound) sets - the high quality "native" or "panel" sounds (that you really bought the unit for) and a GM or GM2 (General MIDI) voice set to ensure some form of compatibility with any GM MIDI file you might send to it. The GM sounds are usually polyphony saving, small sample sounds of dubious quality that were developed back in the 90's, although I do have to say, in most of today's keyboards, the GM tone set is much better than those of some years ago. Of the tones you listed in your mix (On the Gi, that's known as a LiveSet), the solo sax and the solo trombone are Di "native" tones, but the alto sax is a GM tone. I have the same exact tone on the Gi. Any tone on your Di that has an MSB of 121 is a GM tone. I can't believe that one GM tone in your mix would sound that bad, unless you have a very critical ear. To my surprise, the Gi does not have a "native" trombone, so the LiveSet I came up with uses one Gi "native" tone and two GM tones, but to my ears, it doesn't really sound all that bad. I have attached GI-BRASS.WAV using the Gi's LiveSet preview button so you can hear what I came up with. I have tried to match your tones as best as I can guess. If this sounds really bad to you, I would say that you have a critical ear and are just expecting more from the Di than it is capable of, but if your mix sounds a lot worse than mine, then I would say the you have a problem with your set up.
Power Tracks Pro is a PG Music Program. Both Power Tracks and Band-in-a-Box have an option to send a GM/GS reset to the keyboard at the start of a song. That will throw the entire keyboard into a GM/GS sound mode, so make sure that is not turned on. Also, if you are using your PC's audio system as the amp for the Di, make sure Power Tracks has not dropped back to sending MIDI to the Microsoft Wavetable Synth instead of the Di, and that's what you are hearing instead of the Di. Power Tracks will do that from time to time.
Good luck with this.
Let us know how things come out.
Regards,
Ted
- Attachments
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- GI-BRASS.zip
- (2.51 MiB) Downloaded 315 times
Re: Horn Patches Sound Like a Kazoo Band
Hi - thanks so much for your very detailed response. Before I go further, I have attached a section of the song I'm working on. Maybe your right - I am being too critical. Please give it a listen and let me know your thoughts! Thanks! Bernie
- Attachments
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- test.mp3
- (650.07 KiB) Downloaded 613 times
Re: Horn Patches Sound Like a Kazoo Band
Bernie
I'm not sure where to start on this. The sound quality of your horn patch in the MP3 you posted was pretty bad, to say the least. I can't believe that that is a Juno Di that I am hearing. I went to the Juno Di web page on the Roland US site and listened to their audio demos, and they sounded pretty much the same as my Gi. Go there and take a listen. They even have a couple of brass demos. That is what your Di should sound like, if not, then you either have a bad board, or there is something wrong with your audio system or set up. I would certainly hate to see you disappointed with your Di, when you might have an audio problem. As a test, disconnect your Di from everything but the power. Now plug in a set of headphones and play your horn "mix" and see if it sounds better. If it does, then you have a problem with your audio system. As a matter of fact, what do you have the "OUTPUT R - L/MONO" jacks on the back of the Di connected to ?
Regards,
Ted
I'm not sure where to start on this. The sound quality of your horn patch in the MP3 you posted was pretty bad, to say the least. I can't believe that that is a Juno Di that I am hearing. I went to the Juno Di web page on the Roland US site and listened to their audio demos, and they sounded pretty much the same as my Gi. Go there and take a listen. They even have a couple of brass demos. That is what your Di should sound like, if not, then you either have a bad board, or there is something wrong with your audio system or set up. I would certainly hate to see you disappointed with your Di, when you might have an audio problem. As a test, disconnect your Di from everything but the power. Now plug in a set of headphones and play your horn "mix" and see if it sounds better. If it does, then you have a problem with your audio system. As a matter of fact, what do you have the "OUTPUT R - L/MONO" jacks on the back of the Di connected to ?
Regards,
Ted
Re: Horn Patches Sound Like a Kazoo Band
Hi - thanks for the response. I have a chord plugged into the back of the DI into the "phones" jack that goes to my POD UX1 line input. I then have a USB from the POD to the PC. I also load a program called "Gearbox" but I bypass it when I don't have a guitar plugged into the POD.
I am using PG Music Power Tracks Pro as my DAW. When I record from the Juno, I get both midi and audio tracks, but I just save the audio tracks. I do have all of the Juno drivers loaded. I am wondering if somehow the DAW software is taking over?
Any advice appreciated!!
Bernier
I am using PG Music Power Tracks Pro as my DAW. When I record from the Juno, I get both midi and audio tracks, but I just save the audio tracks. I do have all of the Juno drivers loaded. I am wondering if somehow the DAW software is taking over?
Any advice appreciated!!
Bernier
Re: Horn Patches Sound Like a Kazoo Band
Bernie
Yes ! That has been my suspicion all along - that somehow, either Power Tracks, or the Di via Power Tracks is actually playing the voices in the Microsoft Wavetable Synth instead of the Di's own voices, and that is why they sound so weird. That's why I suggest disconnecting everything from the Di, bring up your horn voice patches and play your triads as you listen thru a set of headphones. That way, the ONLY thing you can be hearing is the Di. If they sound OK there, then you know there has to be something wrong with the rest of your set up. If they sound bad there, you know there has to be something wrong with the Di, its set up, or your patch design.
Hang in there ! Good luck !
Regards,
Ted
Yes ! That has been my suspicion all along - that somehow, either Power Tracks, or the Di via Power Tracks is actually playing the voices in the Microsoft Wavetable Synth instead of the Di's own voices, and that is why they sound so weird. That's why I suggest disconnecting everything from the Di, bring up your horn voice patches and play your triads as you listen thru a set of headphones. That way, the ONLY thing you can be hearing is the Di. If they sound OK there, then you know there has to be something wrong with the rest of your set up. If they sound bad there, you know there has to be something wrong with the Di, its set up, or your patch design.
Hang in there ! Good luck !
Regards,
Ted
Re: Horn Patches Sound Like a Kazoo Band
Thanks so much for your help Ted!!
Bernier
Bernier
Re: Horn Patches Sound Like a Kazoo Band
I do not know if this is a Roland owned/sponsored/operated/supported board or if their engineering or customer support staffs even monitor it. Maybe Artimey can answer that for us.
Re: Horn Patches Sound Like a Kazoo Band
Jane
See the previous post above from Andy Keys:
Anyway, thanks for the comment.
Regards,
Ted
See the previous post above from Andy Keys:
I have seen similar comments here on the forums for the other Roland units, so I guess Roland really doesn't have much to do with this. This is really no biggie if you are already aware of it, but it can be a big disappointment to newbies who come here looking for some "official" support for their cherished new what-ever. I usually get fairly quick responses when I post specific "how to" questions on the Roland Support Site, but if I ask something like why no editor for this or librarian for that, the answer is usually "We are looking/hoping to get something from Japan", but those are really "policy questions" so I don't bother to ask those any more.This board is not official, nor sponsored, nor frequented by Roland as far as I am aware. Dan K. occasionally pops in when a new product is released, but that's about it. I'm not aware of any staff who read it in their own time.
Anyway, thanks for the comment.
Regards,
Ted