Changing default tremolo/vibrato for a patch??

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billrow
Posts: 9
Joined: 19:05, 6 July 2013

Changing default tremolo/vibrato for a patch??

Post by billrow »

I'm sure this question would apply to other patches, but this is the one I am trying to change. The Blues Harp patch (KY123) is set for the Modulation Lever to add an effect (not sure if tremolo or vibrato?). But it also has a smaller amount of the effect that is there by default, after a key is held. It kind of gives a "Toots Thielemans" effect, which you wouldn't always want for blues harp. I would like to edit the patch so I could just add the effect with the lever, and not have the default that comes in after a delay. I can't seem to find a way to do it. Am I missing something, or is that just not editable?? Thanks for any help!
tnicoson
Posts: 192
Joined: 04:07, 27 January 2013

Re: Changing default tremolo/vibrato for a patch??

Post by tnicoson »

Bill

I can not say for certain, as I have the Gi, and its voice set is not the same as the Di, but I strongly suspect that the tremolo/vibrato that you are describing may be part of the original wave sample. If that is the case, you will not be able to eliminate it. If the signal is not routed through any LFO controlled stages, or any LFO,s are turned off or their effect depths are reduced to zero, any residual tremolo or vibrato must be part of the original wave sample. On a sampling keyboard, you could resample the wave to loop prior to going into the tremolo/vibrato section of the wave and thereby eliminate it, but the Di does not have that capability. From the Di's wave list, I see that it has Harmonica A, B, and C waves in addition to the Blues G Harp wave. You could try substituting one of the other waves to see if that solves your problem, but you may have to do some additional tweaking to the other parameters to get the final sound you are looking for.

Good luck !

Regards,

Ted
tnicoson
Posts: 192
Joined: 04:07, 27 January 2013

Re: Changing default tremolo/vibrato for a patch??

Post by tnicoson »

Hi Bill !

I just spent the evening working with the Gi, and I took some time to check out what I posted here last night about your harmonica voice tremolo "problem". The Gi has only two harmonica tones, where as the Di has four. Harmonica-1 on the Gi is a single element (single wave) tone in the General MIDI voice set and decays into a tremolo after a short delay, just as you described with the Di. Harmonica-2 is from the high quality "native" Gi voice set. It may be a multi-element or larger sample but it does not decay into a tremolo. Both tones use exactly the same settings for ALL of the wave shaping parameters. The only effects used were a little chorus and a little reverb, but neither tone is applied to any type of LFO modulation stage that would account for the tremolo in Harmonica-1. That means the tremolo in Harmonica-1 is inherent in the wave sample and can not be removed or bypassed. If I wanted a harmonica voice without tremolo, I would need to use Harmonica-2. I think this would apply to your Di as well. The Di has KY122 JUNO Harm, KY123 Blues harp, KY 124 Green Bullet, and KY157 Harmonica. You need to try the others to see if they will better suit your needs. KY157 is from the GM voice set, so not sure what you will get there, but you may need to tweak the substitute tone's parameters a bit to get what you want.

Good luck !

Regards,

Ted
billrow
Posts: 9
Joined: 19:05, 6 July 2013

Re: Changing default tremolo/vibrato for a patch??

Post by billrow »

Hi Ted,

Wow! Thanks for all the research and information! I tried the other harmonica settings on the DI, and none seem to allow me to turn off the effect. I'm just trying to fill in parts on a few songs that our band has being doing, since the guy who was playing harp parts moved away. I guess I'll just have to live with it; though no one but me will probably notice. Hopefully no one will say, "Man, did you hear the delayed tremolo on that harp part? This band sucks! Let's get out of here!" ;-)

Thanks again!
Bill
tnicoson
Posts: 192
Joined: 04:07, 27 January 2013

Re: Changing default tremolo/vibrato for a patch??

Post by tnicoson »

Bill

Am very disappointed that you could not find what you were looking for on the Di. Would have bet that at least one of those harp patches was sans tremolo, especially since the Gi has one with and one without. You are probably right though, the only objection you would probably get is from another musician, most likely from your own group, but knowing you have it nailed just right sure helps the self confidence.

Good luck !

Regards,

Ted
terfyn
Posts: 3
Joined: 12:59, 22 July 2013

Re: Changing default tremolo/vibrato for a patch??

Post by terfyn »

Have you tried Ky156 or Ky158 with the cutoff set high? This gives a similar sound to the Blues Harp without the trem.
BitwiseOperator
Posts: 4
Joined: 15:19, 8 January 2013

Re: Changing default tremolo/vibrato for a patch??

Post by BitwiseOperator »

If you use the Juno Di editing software on patch KY123, you will see that LFO#1 is set, after a delay, to effect pitch, filter(TVF) and volume(TVA). If you change those three effect depths to zero, the tone stays steady.

It is easy to miss seeing the pitch effect in the editor, as it is only set to a depth of 4, where as the filter and amp are originally set to a depth of 20, making them much more obvious on the screen. However, the audible difference of having the LFO vary the pitch by 4 is quite noticeable. When all the LFO effect depths are set to zero, the harmonica sound is as steady as a smoke detector.
billrow
Posts: 9
Joined: 19:05, 6 July 2013

Re: Changing default tremolo/vibrato for a patch??

Post by billrow »

Thanks to everyone for the advice. "BitwiseOperator" gets the gold star for encouraging me to install and use the DI Editor software. I had just been trying to tweak things from the keyboard. Your suggestion did the trick! Now if I DO want a little tremolo, I just give a little nudge to the modulation lever; but don't have it forced on me. And now I can cause lots more trouble using the editor for other changes. ;-) Thanks again!
tnicoson
Posts: 192
Joined: 04:07, 27 January 2013

Re: Changing default tremolo/vibrato for a patch??

Post by tnicoson »

terfyn
BitwiseOperator

Thanks loads for popping in here and helping Bill out with this. I was almost certain there should be a way for him to fix this, but without a Di here, I was not able to help him any further. I was down to the point of trying to borrow a Di so I could take a closer look. Sure wish Roland would bless us Gi owners with a nice sound editor like the Di has !


Bill

Glad you got this sorted. Am thinking maybe it's time I got a Di here in the studio. Maybe I can pick up a pre-owned one for a fairly reasonable price. Good luck with you new-found knowledge and enjoy !

Regards,

Ted
Wackienne
Posts: 29
Joined: 22:46, 21 August 2017

Re: Changing default tremolo/vibrato for a patch??

Post by Wackienne »

I realize this is an old thread, but I was trying to exactly this with my DS. I googled it, found your answer, and it's perfect -- so I'm joining the Clan. Thanks so much, BitwiseOperator!
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