Will iPod, iphone apps make Roland/yamaha/ products obsolete

[Septimo]

Just wondering what you guys thought on it because apps like beatmaker make it much more of an affordable alternative.. I wasn't too convinced until I saw glimpses of what BM2 can do, and now I'm thinkin, I won't be using my MV as much after then.. I still use it now, because there are a few limitations(lack of banks, no ADSR or pad release, no synth, light on effects) on BM currently but 2 seems to address these issues. And now I'm thinking where they can possibly go from there after... Fantom Can always be used for coloring the sound with it's soundbanks but what about the sequencer? It's far too easy to do on BM than it is on fantom X or G.. And also with Noise.io you can do all the synth programing you want..

Did they see this happening? Could they have possibly forecast-ed this?

I only say this towards their music production products, not their live instruments..

Is this the future of music production? Is it a fad? Would the big guys come play in this park and make production apps? And if they do will they stay behind current developers? Or do you think they will co-exist cus they do play well together.. At least FX sounds and BM..

Just thinking out loud while beatmaking on my ipod...

I think it's almost time for an iPad...

[Septimo]

this is what BM2 will look like,

http://www.intua.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1453

the pads screen

http://www.intua.net/forums/viewtopic.p ... 3&start=30

[dbijoux]

I'm trying to find a fitting analogy, but here is something to think about. When computers came out, did that mean the end of hardware sequencers? They may have been outclassed, but that was hardly the case. Now, a few decades later, dedicated sequencers are more rare, but people are still buying workstations and using them for everything.

On the contrary, I think we are just foreseeing the future of computers in general. It's inevitable that size and form factor is going to get small, very small. One of the biggest hurdles is actually heat and industrial diamonds are on the verge of breaking us through that little dilemma.

I know it's hard for iPeople to imagine, but Apple is not the greatest company to work with. They are rather selective in their software agreements and a company like Roland is likely not too fond of disclosing their IP or handing over the keys to their car let alone castle.

As for obsolete, the only thing obsolete is last years iPod or iPhone. You don't see any vintage drum machines going off to the landfill or being scrapped for aluminum.

[Septimo]

Good point, but with this market and people seeing it easier to update phones than it is to update hardware workstations I'm afraid the HWworkstation market has no option but to become a vintage HW worstation market as i see no profit in trying to compete into the future... It's not like they haven't already lost a lot of 'used to be' HW producers, and now young producers can't afford to purchase HW so their clear option is this route, and do you think they will change to the more expensive option once they can? or do you think they will stick to what they know and began with? especially if it's fulfilling What they need it to?

[Septimo]

Also I don't think small has anything to do with it, cus I would much rather have this on a iPad.. As far as connections, importing/exporting and wi-fi has made cables a thing of the past..

[Artemiy]

dbijoux is right in saying that dedicated hardware products will not become obsolete - after all 10 years ago the same assumption could be made with a mass availability of powerful laptops, yet hardware is still alive. It's changing though - hardware workstations are much less popular than 10 years ago, however, dedicated solo instruments like Moog and DSI analog synths have become more popular. So everything will evolve and change over time, but I can't foresee the death of any particular existing type of hardware synth.

[Artemiy]

dbijoux, I would like to ask you to rethink your stereotypes about Apple users. If you know 2-3 people which are Apple zombies, this doesn't describe us all. Like, because Sir Elton John is gay, this doesn't mean all other Sirs are gay too.

Despite their secrecy and strictness (often over the top and not funny at all), Apple is one of the most talented and motivated teams in the world, which put a freaking damn lot into making their products. Very, very few companies in the world spend so much time working out all these hundreds of little details that keep showing up as you use the device more and more.

Looking like an Apple hater, you seem to think that it's just flashy stuff for people who are too much into "coolness" and "image"... beyond that flashiness, it would take about a month of using an Apple product to realize how much beyond they have gone compared to most. And realize you'll never go back - only forward.

I'll be glad to buy a product which is better that what Apple offers. But I haven't seen one yet.

[Septimo]

dbijoux is right in saying that dedicated hardware products will become obsolete

I think he's saying they wont go obsolete.. I think they will..

[Septimo]

Like, because Sir Elton John is gay, this doesn't mean all other Sirs are gay too.

LOL!! This sir is straight!

[Septimo]

Also, Ten years ago when Laptops were making their mark on the music production market, they lacked the hardware feel working only with a mouse, but with now the touch screen, all that is over... The interface is what made the difference in the past...

[Artemiy]

Sorry, I fixed that

I too think that many of the current types of hardware will survive. Yes, maybe iPad with USB pads will be more capable than MPC-1000, but this is two devices still, and for many people a single device will be better.

For me, a more modular and flexible setup will win. I can take an iPad with me in a small bag to lay down some ideas in a park or cafe, and later on in the studio I can connect it to controllers for more serious work.

Think of it though, NanoStudio offers 48 stereo voices, which is 96 mono voices, not far from Fantom-G's 128... of course the sound engine is much more simple, but still, having such a nuke in your pocket is quite amazing. Looking forward to it.

BeatMaker 2 looks promising too, although I am not sure about the interface yet... I hope they implemented all that new stuff without hampering the workflow. Gotta try it out to make the judgement.

[Artemiy]

Septimo, yes, I agree that multi-touch really changed the feel of working with a computer. It's so amazing that you can now touch your content right where it is, and even use multiple fingers at the same time, what mouse cannot do. I can even forgo the feel of the real keyboard for a virtual one, can type almost as fast on my iPod touch.

I would love if Apple made GarageBand for iPad... that would be amazing. Imagine arranging your tracks, tweaking plugins, drawing automation... all just with your fingers.

[Artemiy]

BTW, Septimo, which of the devices we're talking about do you have? How are you using them?

[Artemiy]

P.S. Make sure to check this out:
http://forums.rolandclan.com/?action=show_thread&thread...

[dbijoux]

I should know better than to bring up Apple, but you know it's true.

It's also true, I don't like Apple. However, I worked in advertising(100's of macs + iPeople of the illustriously creative kind) and have a few friends and family who use Macs. I do get the idea, I even had a BBedit t-shirt I wore for years. ;p

My point was only that I doubt you'll see a Roland/Apple partnership anytime soon.

These are all valid claims tho, Septimo and Artemiy. I don't deny the iPod and iPads are cool, maybe even useful. Still, they are first generation products. I won't be excited for at least a couple of years. For now, it's all conjecture.

As for obsolete, that can be a tricky word, like hand grenades. Bringing market trends into the fray is just as slippery of a slope. We can't really predict where it's all going, but I'm confident to say things will get small, very small. Apple may be leading the way, but watch on as everyone else catches up.

Oh yeah, since I'm repeating myself, size has everything to do with it; absolutely. We've just reached the tipping point where storage, lcd, and cpu, are powerful enough, yet cool enough and small enough, to run a plethora of apps on a phonelike device. You don't see any DAWs just yet, but the genie is out of the bottle now.

ps. Thanks Artemiy, we might never reach an agreement on iPhilosophy, but you're a fair and balanced kinda guy.