Did you notice how the name "JUNO-Gi" is printed on the synth? It has a letter "i" that is colored medium-red. In dim lighting, as in the videos, it looks like the synth is actually named "JUNO-G".
Now that's confusing!
(Or maybe it's just me and I'm going blind.)
Septimo - "the workstation is dead"
Re: Septimo - "the workstation is dead"
Where was I saying anything about how people produce music? This thread has been discussing what the future holds, and there has been far too much 'new toy' excitement about the ipad.
The only thing new is extra portability and multi-touch screen - that's all. Assumptions that the ipad will kill the workstation are nonsense, because it leaves Roland with no reason to exist.
It seems obvious that it's the new technology alone that will change things, not the ipad itself - the ipad has sent us down the wrong path IMO.
This thread may have got lost, so I repeat it, this is where I see the technology being used to everyones benefit where everyone becomes a winner, and we all move forward...
Take an 81 key G and completely erase the top half, leaving only the keys. Now put an ipad type surface right across that top half, make one third of it detachable and a stand alone ipad-type for real portability. Give that third an open OS, Roland will write sequencer and editor software for it, it will be updatable and store your work.
The other two thirds will emulate the G's controls, all multi touch control just like a soft synth but it's like your looking at a real G. Full hands on.
Now have soft synth chip modules of all past Roland synths that can be plugged into the back of the synth - externaly like an old atari games cartridge whatever. $moneyspinner$. Switch from the G emulation to any other synth you have added.
The one-third screen can be used for anything whilst you play live or jam, maybe a ribbon controller as you play the keyboard, or it can be any softsynth to play in conjunction, or drum/sample pad banks, chaospad, 32 track mixer etc etc. It can also store your music and your live sets and you can take just that screen and emulation cartridge all over the world, work on mixes as you travel, and then plug it into any other similar Roland and it will have your entire mix settings on it, just as they do with stage mixers. You could even switch keyboard mid-gig!
I'm dreaming - but tell me what else they can do - and the potential is huge here for them to rehash and resell everything they have ever done, in proprietary fashion, but still having the i-benefits.
I'm on commision here
I think we'll call this machine the Roland G-od
The only thing new is extra portability and multi-touch screen - that's all. Assumptions that the ipad will kill the workstation are nonsense, because it leaves Roland with no reason to exist.
It seems obvious that it's the new technology alone that will change things, not the ipad itself - the ipad has sent us down the wrong path IMO.
This thread may have got lost, so I repeat it, this is where I see the technology being used to everyones benefit where everyone becomes a winner, and we all move forward...
Take an 81 key G and completely erase the top half, leaving only the keys. Now put an ipad type surface right across that top half, make one third of it detachable and a stand alone ipad-type for real portability. Give that third an open OS, Roland will write sequencer and editor software for it, it will be updatable and store your work.
The other two thirds will emulate the G's controls, all multi touch control just like a soft synth but it's like your looking at a real G. Full hands on.
Now have soft synth chip modules of all past Roland synths that can be plugged into the back of the synth - externaly like an old atari games cartridge whatever. $moneyspinner$. Switch from the G emulation to any other synth you have added.
The one-third screen can be used for anything whilst you play live or jam, maybe a ribbon controller as you play the keyboard, or it can be any softsynth to play in conjunction, or drum/sample pad banks, chaospad, 32 track mixer etc etc. It can also store your music and your live sets and you can take just that screen and emulation cartridge all over the world, work on mixes as you travel, and then plug it into any other similar Roland and it will have your entire mix settings on it, just as they do with stage mixers. You could even switch keyboard mid-gig!
I'm dreaming - but tell me what else they can do - and the potential is huge here for them to rehash and resell everything they have ever done, in proprietary fashion, but still having the i-benefits.
I'm on commision here
I think we'll call this machine the Roland G-odRe: Septimo - "the workstation is dead"
This is where I think Roland is heading..
Re: Septimo - "the workstation is dead"
And here...
MeNotU... You ARE dreamin!
MeNotU... You ARE dreamin!
Re: Septimo - "the workstation is dead"
Lol who's dreaming? A $27,000 set up that still needs what is nothing more than a synth rack in order to not drain the DSP of the PC.
Nothing has changed.
I get the feeling they have to keep pushing the envelope to make $$$, why the heck are we going to buy this kit when it obviously struggles to process it? That was 15 years ago as well.
We are just trying to have a drum track, some strings and a bit of audio are we not?
Ridiculous overkill, purely for profits, not practicality. Lump all that crap around rather than a synth all in one workstation? Please!
I'm laughing my tits off.
Nothing has changed.
I get the feeling they have to keep pushing the envelope to make $$$, why the heck are we going to buy this kit when it obviously struggles to process it? That was 15 years ago as well.
We are just trying to have a drum track, some strings and a bit of audio are we not?
Ridiculous overkill, purely for profits, not practicality. Lump all that crap around rather than a synth all in one workstation? Please!
I'm laughing my tits off.
Re: Septimo - "the workstation is dead"
Dude, are you doing drugs and posting? 27K?? struggles to process? Where did you get this info?? you making things up??
Not everything is intended for live.. For live (if you are keyboardist) all you need is a keyboard.. I think where Roland started screwing up is when they tried to make a workstation both a studio piece and a live instrument.. They should have kept all those live features in a performance keyboard (which they have already )... I mean you don't see the V-Combo VR-700 trying to be a workstation.. Why? Because they specifically made that kind of board for performances.. But when it came to their flagship studio keyboard, they started catering to live players and then the studio composer got second priority.. So what happens? No body buys it... The studio guys go for something else more efficient that suits all their needs for a lot less since they are not too interested so much in live features that make the keyboard so expensive.. And the live players don't buy it cus they don't really need all the studio bells and whistles that makes the workstation so expensive... Thus the end of Fantom G line... How many more times do you think Roland is willing to take that chance before they say, "the hell with this shit!" ? ( however you say that in Japanese) Do you or anyone here think they are gonna play that game forever? Do you really?
This workstation stuff isn't as important to them as much as survival is.... Quit pretending that our personal preferences matter.... Go with the flow...
Not everything is intended for live.. For live (if you are keyboardist) all you need is a keyboard.. I think where Roland started screwing up is when they tried to make a workstation both a studio piece and a live instrument.. They should have kept all those live features in a performance keyboard (which they have already )... I mean you don't see the V-Combo VR-700 trying to be a workstation.. Why? Because they specifically made that kind of board for performances.. But when it came to their flagship studio keyboard, they started catering to live players and then the studio composer got second priority.. So what happens? No body buys it... The studio guys go for something else more efficient that suits all their needs for a lot less since they are not too interested so much in live features that make the keyboard so expensive.. And the live players don't buy it cus they don't really need all the studio bells and whistles that makes the workstation so expensive... Thus the end of Fantom G line... How many more times do you think Roland is willing to take that chance before they say, "the hell with this shit!" ? ( however you say that in Japanese) Do you or anyone here think they are gonna play that game forever? Do you really?
This workstation stuff isn't as important to them as much as survival is.... Quit pretending that our personal preferences matter.... Go with the flow...
Re: Septimo - "the workstation is dead"
I'm really anxious to hear which item specifically (defined as "workstation" component) raised the price so high that the G cannot be bought by poor keyboard players... c'mon!
Is it ... the screen??? Aren't live players enjoying a big, juicy screen???
Your logic is flawed. The G is as expensive now as it was the X then. So if ppl don't buy it is not because of the price. There must be something else...
Re: Septimo - "the workstation is dead"
The guy in the 2nd video said that the process power is a problem. He even said the op sys he was using wasn't released yet and that other systems may have a problem trying to run this, and that it's a help that the Roland gizmo has it's own processor. You posted it mate, maybe you should listen to it? I wish I was on drugs.
But like you say, this set up is a massive studio beast, but not what I want.
I can produce 90% quality mix downs on my Juno-G - no DAW required, because that's what I do, I am trying to create songs that may get picked up, the ideas are more important than the quality, they would be re-mastered anyway. This suits me because I can concentrate on the song writing, not worry about technicalities with PC'S and midi mmc slave yes no nonsense, and just create, thats important to me.
It seems a lot of people do pro music, so maybe I am looking in different directions to them.
But like you say, this set up is a massive studio beast, but not what I want.
I can produce 90% quality mix downs on my Juno-G - no DAW required, because that's what I do, I am trying to create songs that may get picked up, the ideas are more important than the quality, they would be re-mastered anyway. This suits me because I can concentrate on the song writing, not worry about technicalities with PC'S and midi mmc slave yes no nonsense, and just create, thats important to me.
It seems a lot of people do pro music, so maybe I am looking in different directions to them.
Re: Septimo - "the workstation is dead"
The G is as expensive now as it was the X then
What?? C'mon.. I payed $1689 for a straight out the truck Fantom-x6 on it's release day.. What are people paying for a G6 new today? $2000 to $2200, 2 years after it's release, when 2 years after X's release ppl were getting them at $11-1200...and about 2500 for the G(??) on it's release? Where is the next one gonna start? $3000 for a 6? They will be getting more expensive and will be getting left further behind software capabilities while software gets cheaper and more capable...
Also, Don't know if you knew, but musicians are the brokest people in the world! And the ones who are well off don't account to 10% off all possible musicians.. How long, now that technology has well surpassed the HW workstation, will Roland continue to cater to a shrinking {and shared among Korg and Yamaha} 10% who don't wanna go to software? ( yes. my 10% is just my fake number just so you get my point that it is a small percentage) So what are they gonna do? Make more models and make them even more expensive until they get it "right" ? Let's see if another ARX comes out first... or fG rack which would be less capable or the same as as an FXR since it has 6 SRX slots which to me is way better than the arx will ever be in the real world... ARX in theory was a great idea... It just wasn't practical.. And "supernatural" didn't fool anyone.. We all knew it was just easy interfacing of the parameters already there (pitch, cutoff, resonance filters, ADSR) making it seem transparent...
Like the MV, they will not say anything until you see prices drop...
MeNotU is a prime example of above statements.. He's not getting no FantomG.. Why? cus he don't need to be spending money on a machine that tries to get everything done in box but really can't.. He understands that in the end if it ever does anything, it is going out of that closed domain and into a DAW anyway.. So why go there in the first place when cheaper products are available that can sound the same at the end of the line? There are more people out there like MeNotU, than there are rich or better off hobbyist who only have room in there bedroom for a fantom, and not for all the equipment still necessary for a PC DAW... They don't want that mess.. And they also don't mind that it takes forever to arrange anything on there, and probably the ones who have less than 30 tracks in their songs list...
About the second Vid, Me... Whatever the guy said in the video, look at Rolands direction instead...
Of course, this is just me speculating, but I try to be a student of human moves..
Re: Septimo - "the workstation is dead"
Tx Septimo, I like your study of human moves, this is good conversation even if neither of us realy have a clue what's happening
At the end of the day I don't care where this all goes, because I can acheive what I want to, which is multitarack indie synth pop/dub/rock with decent FX, vocals, mastering, whatever.
I started with cubase 1.6, an awe 64 sound card because it had 4mb of sample memory, and a pentium 1 PC. I soon ditched the PC cos it's latency sucked, now that's cured, the entire setting up and complication sux. I don't need 80% of what Sonar offers, or soft synths, or the crashing, or the PC upkeep, or, or, or - I just need to create.
Tech wise, I am now one million times better off - anything else is a bonus, but I want my workstation.
At the end of the day I don't care where this all goes, because I can acheive what I want to, which is multitarack indie synth pop/dub/rock with decent FX, vocals, mastering, whatever.
I started with cubase 1.6, an awe 64 sound card because it had 4mb of sample memory, and a pentium 1 PC. I soon ditched the PC cos it's latency sucked, now that's cured, the entire setting up and complication sux. I don't need 80% of what Sonar offers, or soft synths, or the crashing, or the PC upkeep, or, or, or - I just need to create.
Tech wise, I am now one million times better off - anything else is a bonus, but I want my workstation.
Re: Septimo - "the workstation is dead"
You want a workstation? get a fantom X or Motif es used! They are cheap now.. I saw a Fantomx Go for $400 on ebay.. I got a little sad seeing it go for that price but it's a great time to get one.. It's still every bit as sonically capable and just as relevant as the G.. If you use SPDF, there is no difference between them... (if sound is what you are after) Then you have 4 SRX slots that is 100 times more useful than ARX will ever be... And you'd be better off than with your Juno with the bigger color screen... unless that's not important to you.. Then at least sonically you will be...
Pc's have come along way since Pentium 1.. You can get a pentium 4 -2.8 and 3.0 Dell for extremely cheap that can handle anything you throw at it as long as you have as much ram as you can afford.. at least 2g would be perfect but 4 would be even more so.. for less than $350! And cubase has also come a long way from 1.6 (although they are on 5 already, sx2 and sx3 are very solid and cheap..). and latency is hardly an issue anymore.. And the only time when my setup freezes is when it's been turned on for weeks and i haven't been touching it for few days, I'll come back and it'll sometimes(sometimes) be locked up, but not all the time, it's very rare... i don't use it for internet and I haven't kept it up as far a updating the os or anything and it is rock solid.. It has yet to lock up on me during a session... Or if not, get an older iMac..
Pc's have come along way since Pentium 1.. You can get a pentium 4 -2.8 and 3.0 Dell for extremely cheap that can handle anything you throw at it as long as you have as much ram as you can afford.. at least 2g would be perfect but 4 would be even more so.. for less than $350! And cubase has also come a long way from 1.6 (although they are on 5 already, sx2 and sx3 are very solid and cheap..). and latency is hardly an issue anymore.. And the only time when my setup freezes is when it's been turned on for weeks and i haven't been touching it for few days, I'll come back and it'll sometimes(sometimes) be locked up, but not all the time, it's very rare... i don't use it for internet and I haven't kept it up as far a updating the os or anything and it is rock solid.. It has yet to lock up on me during a session... Or if not, get an older iMac..
Re: Septimo - "the workstation is dead"
Septimo..
Get off your own high horse and accept that there are other views than those of yours.
there are many ways to make music, so you do your stuff and let others do theirs.. but for petes sake stop the preaching as at this point your arguments are simply arguments to be argumentative.
There has been no comment by anyone that software is not being used, or will not continue to be used as a DAW. Everyone has a computer at home, some have several.. but this does not mean that EVERYONE wants to or WILL use software at the point of making music.
I have Sonar Producer, with a fast PC and a large display.. I need a second display to be effective.. so i have everything you say i need.... but what do I use?.. JunoG or fantom to capture music and post process in the studio. The workstation is ideal and excellent for quick fixes and second takes... For me it is a releif to get away from the tedium of fighting complex software and simply to make bad music.
People of all ages make music and want to make it easy, simple and effective and there are many ways to do this.. the way you propose does not make it easy or effective.
imagine the choices for visiting a friends house and recording editing music of keyboard and guitar.
1. Netbook $350, Sound canvas $400?, A800 pro controller $400.
learn and setup controller, learn and setup sound canvas, learn and setup Sonar LE in netbook.. carry three things, cables and have to use all three items at once..
2. Juno Gi $1000, Laptop $1000+.
Learn and setup sonar LE learn and setup Gi, carry two things and have to use them both at once.
3. Budget workstation Juno G $800 (granted any replacement would be at $1300)
learn and setup
in every case, more work is done, typically in a DAW on a computer.. but with a workstation you can capture everything you need, right there. Now THAT sounds simple and effective to me..
So i dont care whether Roland ends up doing just apps for the iPhone and rollup keyboards, if they do not produce what i want when i want it then i will buy elsewhere... My loyalty to Roland died along with the display in the GW7, display in Juno G and the keybed in my RD700GX
Get off your own high horse and accept that there are other views than those of yours.
there are many ways to make music, so you do your stuff and let others do theirs.. but for petes sake stop the preaching as at this point your arguments are simply arguments to be argumentative.
There has been no comment by anyone that software is not being used, or will not continue to be used as a DAW. Everyone has a computer at home, some have several.. but this does not mean that EVERYONE wants to or WILL use software at the point of making music.
I have Sonar Producer, with a fast PC and a large display.. I need a second display to be effective.. so i have everything you say i need.... but what do I use?.. JunoG or fantom to capture music and post process in the studio. The workstation is ideal and excellent for quick fixes and second takes... For me it is a releif to get away from the tedium of fighting complex software and simply to make bad music.
People of all ages make music and want to make it easy, simple and effective and there are many ways to do this.. the way you propose does not make it easy or effective.
imagine the choices for visiting a friends house and recording editing music of keyboard and guitar.
1. Netbook $350, Sound canvas $400?, A800 pro controller $400.
learn and setup controller, learn and setup sound canvas, learn and setup Sonar LE in netbook.. carry three things, cables and have to use all three items at once..
2. Juno Gi $1000, Laptop $1000+.
Learn and setup sonar LE learn and setup Gi, carry two things and have to use them both at once.
3. Budget workstation Juno G $800 (granted any replacement would be at $1300)
learn and setup
in every case, more work is done, typically in a DAW on a computer.. but with a workstation you can capture everything you need, right there. Now THAT sounds simple and effective to me..
So i dont care whether Roland ends up doing just apps for the iPhone and rollup keyboards, if they do not produce what i want when i want it then i will buy elsewhere... My loyalty to Roland died along with the display in the GW7, display in Juno G and the keybed in my RD700GX
Re: Septimo - "the workstation is dead"
"My loyalty to Roland died along with the display in the GW7, display in Juno G"
Yes mine too - it so sucks that they take no responsibility, and pure dumb that they dont realise it will cost them in the long run, when people like you and me go elsewhere, and influence many others to do likewise. Because that's what people do when they feel betrayed.
Septimo - tx for the comments there, I understand the PC bit, but as Mystic says, it doesn't suit our style. I take heart from your recomend for other boards though, I've been holding off on a $211 repair on my Juno-G, and may well put it toward what you r suggesting.
Yes mine too - it so sucks that they take no responsibility, and pure dumb that they dont realise it will cost them in the long run, when people like you and me go elsewhere, and influence many others to do likewise. Because that's what people do when they feel betrayed.
Septimo - tx for the comments there, I understand the PC bit, but as Mystic says, it doesn't suit our style. I take heart from your recomend for other boards though, I've been holding off on a $211 repair on my Juno-G, and may well put it toward what you r suggesting.
Re: Septimo - "the workstation is dead"
the way you propose does not make it easy or effective.
Who me? I'm not proposing anything at all.. We are trying to predict whether or not Roland will continue this route..
As far as me stop preaching, it would be easier if you would stop reading this and mind your own.. There's no problem if you don't want to read it.. Now there is a problem when you try to tell me not to type it.. Cus it's not like I'm going to for you or for pete.. Do you see your dilemma you find yourself in? So, um yeah,,, Stop here... But don't tell me to stop...
I have Sonar Producer, with a fast PC and a large display.. I need a second display to be effective.. so i have everything you say i need.... but what do I use?.. JunoG or fantom to capture music and post process in the studio.
So get another display and be effective.........
You see? Mystic is another guy who gets it... Do you think you'll ever buy another Fantom now that you have a sequencer that you are comfortable with just to "capture" ideas, so later you can arrange, process, and finish in a PC... I doubt Roland is gonna take that chance on you... Hell, you couldn't have said clearer!
My loyalty to Roland died along with the display in the GW7, display in Juno G and the keybed in my RD700GX
I'm telling you.. that percentage is shrinking.. these posts keep proving that fact! Mystic/MeNotU and others are part of that fact... Me too!
Re: Septimo - "the workstation is dead"
**You see? Mystic is another guy who gets it...**
try actually reading my post.., i am into effective methods for producing my music... and it would not be represented by a software plus controller route. period.
you stated as a categoric fact that "this is the way Roland is going", therefore you were not *discussing* or *trying to predict* the future, but more of bludgeoning others into submission to your viewpoint...
In my post stated clearly that i will purchase what i want, not what some others dictate to me that i need or want. My purchases are intended to provide benefit and flexibility and effectiveness to my needs... and that is a workstation plus software.
So yes i will buy another workstation... and within a year if the FG is not updated to fix major flaws in its useability, specifically:
1. Control surface integration into Sonar ( as motif is to cubase).
2. Pattern mode recording for arpeggiators and drums a la Juno G
3. Stupidly convoluted file management.
4. Ability to choose between phrase and track based recording.
So In summary, in a way i will partly agree with you:
for ROLAND the workstation will be dead if it does not work effectively with their own software...
try actually reading my post.., i am into effective methods for producing my music... and it would not be represented by a software plus controller route. period.
you stated as a categoric fact that "this is the way Roland is going", therefore you were not *discussing* or *trying to predict* the future, but more of bludgeoning others into submission to your viewpoint...
In my post stated clearly that i will purchase what i want, not what some others dictate to me that i need or want. My purchases are intended to provide benefit and flexibility and effectiveness to my needs... and that is a workstation plus software.
So yes i will buy another workstation... and within a year if the FG is not updated to fix major flaws in its useability, specifically:
1. Control surface integration into Sonar ( as motif is to cubase).
2. Pattern mode recording for arpeggiators and drums a la Juno G
3. Stupidly convoluted file management.
4. Ability to choose between phrase and track based recording.
So In summary, in a way i will partly agree with you:
for ROLAND the workstation will be dead if it does not work effectively with their own software...