Patches or tones only ? and sampling capabilities?
Patches or tones only ? and sampling capabilities?
I am over curious with this new machine...Since it has audio recording can it perform sampling sort of like a sampler machine? and also since i checked the specs it almost sounded as if we are dealing mostly with tones rather then patches with structures !!!
Re: Patches or tones only ? and sampling capabilities?
We must wait and see... I really hope that they didn't drop the sampling features, I use the sample pads that they added with the 2.0 software in the J-G to trigger samples and found that they can be very useful if you need to trigger samples.
Patches or tones only? This would be really BAD!!!!!
Patches or tones only? This would be really BAD!!!!!
Re: Patches or tones only ? and sampling capabilities?
I can't comment as I haven't worked with the final product, but judging by what I've seen before the release and what the specifications say, you don't have sample triggering via the keyboard or buttons, only playback via the audio tracks.
With the synthesizer, it has 4 tones that you assign to the live set and each tone has 4 partials just like the patches in the previous JUNOs. You have access to pretty much all parameters of the engine, though, do not worry.
With the synthesizer, it has 4 tones that you assign to the live set and each tone has 4 partials just like the patches in the previous JUNOs. You have access to pretty much all parameters of the engine, though, do not worry.
Re: Patches or tones only ? and sampling capabilities?
Yes, I looked at the videos and I undestood some things more.
The problem is that I think that this keyboard sounds great, but it is not as powerful as the Juno-G for serious live performance. Yes, we have the two assignable buttons that are really welcome, but we have some important limitations as well:
- you can put only 4 patches in split/layer instead of 16
- no live settings mode means it is slower to select sounds during a live performance. The live settings was a great invention by Roland... something I awaited for 20 years! Now how could I come back to writing the numbers of the patches on a sheet of paper and recall them by entering the patch number? You don't know how many times I chose the wrong patch in this way... what's more, in the Gi you don't have a dedicated number pad, so you would always have to enter the numeric mode. At least the other manufacturers offer a quick way to select patches by number by providing a dedicated numeric pad. The favorite list is also not fit for the purpose, because if you have different projects you would be forced to put the favorite patches in the correct order every time and rebuild the list from scratch, what's more opening the favorite screen and selecting the patch by rotating the wheel is too slow. The Live Setting mode is FUNDAMENTAL for a live performance if you don't have a dedicated numeric pad!
Furthermore, there's not enough space to stick the patch number list on the front panel!
- no sample pads, even though I think that they could add it with a software update.
I really can't understand why they removed the live settings mode. Did they really made a keyboard oriented to live performance where there's no quick way to select patches? Also, did they really made a keyboard where the maximum number of patches you can use at the same time is limited to 4, like in the Yamaha performances, when they previously offered 16?
I think that these limitations will prevent many serious musicians (even serious amateurs, no need to be a professional) from buying the Gi... for example, I cannot upgrade: the Gi would simply not fit my setup due to the limitations above.
Let's wait for the user manual, but to me these limitations look pretty serious... a pity, because I like the concept.
Last but not least... the LCD is smaller than the one on the Juno-G... 240x64 vs 240x92,,, it's true that we were used to do full sound editing on a 2 lines 40 character LCD 10 years ago, but today... why go backwards?
Look at the Korg M50 display... it's gorgeous, with its 320x240 resolution! And we're talking of an instrument in the same class.
To be fair, it really looks that the target of the Gi is not the musician but a beginner hobbyist.
The problem is that I think that this keyboard sounds great, but it is not as powerful as the Juno-G for serious live performance. Yes, we have the two assignable buttons that are really welcome, but we have some important limitations as well:
- you can put only 4 patches in split/layer instead of 16
- no live settings mode means it is slower to select sounds during a live performance. The live settings was a great invention by Roland... something I awaited for 20 years! Now how could I come back to writing the numbers of the patches on a sheet of paper and recall them by entering the patch number? You don't know how many times I chose the wrong patch in this way... what's more, in the Gi you don't have a dedicated number pad, so you would always have to enter the numeric mode. At least the other manufacturers offer a quick way to select patches by number by providing a dedicated numeric pad. The favorite list is also not fit for the purpose, because if you have different projects you would be forced to put the favorite patches in the correct order every time and rebuild the list from scratch, what's more opening the favorite screen and selecting the patch by rotating the wheel is too slow. The Live Setting mode is FUNDAMENTAL for a live performance if you don't have a dedicated numeric pad!
Furthermore, there's not enough space to stick the patch number list on the front panel!
- no sample pads, even though I think that they could add it with a software update.
I really can't understand why they removed the live settings mode. Did they really made a keyboard oriented to live performance where there's no quick way to select patches? Also, did they really made a keyboard where the maximum number of patches you can use at the same time is limited to 4, like in the Yamaha performances, when they previously offered 16?
I think that these limitations will prevent many serious musicians (even serious amateurs, no need to be a professional) from buying the Gi... for example, I cannot upgrade: the Gi would simply not fit my setup due to the limitations above.
Let's wait for the user manual, but to me these limitations look pretty serious... a pity, because I like the concept.
Last but not least... the LCD is smaller than the one on the Juno-G... 240x64 vs 240x92,,, it's true that we were used to do full sound editing on a 2 lines 40 character LCD 10 years ago, but today... why go backwards?
Look at the Korg M50 display... it's gorgeous, with its 320x240 resolution! And we're talking of an instrument in the same class.
To be fair, it really looks that the target of the Gi is not the musician but a beginner hobbyist.
Re: Patches or tones only ? and sampling capabilities?
Wait, wait a minute Tom. Who told you it takes a lot of time to switch live sets? It happens instantly... and maybe even seamlessly as in the Fantom-G, but I can't confirm yet.
Re: Patches or tones only ? and sampling capabilities?
Well, I'm not talking about the time that the synth takes to change a patch, I'm talking about the time the user needs to select a different patch with the instrument user interface. When you play live you must be able to change sounds as quickly as possible. Many times you have to change patches in the middle of a song.
Now, with the Live Settings mode I just lay out the patches I need for the show and then with a single button press I can select the correct patch. It is one of the best things I have ever seen in 20 years of synth history! And another wonderful thing is that in the Live Settings mode you can put both patches and performances, and recall them with a single button press without having to switch from patch to performance mode and back.
The conventional method, which we have used for the past 20 years, is to select the number of the patch on a numeric keypad. You then make a list of the songs you will play and write the numbers of the patches you will use for each song, in case you forget the numbers. The problem is that with synths with 1000+ sounds this method is not as quick as it was in the past, when you could select the patch tipically with two buttons (one for the bank and the other for the patch). Also, it is quite easy to enter the wrong number and choose the wrong sound. The Live Settings mode introduced in the Fantoms/Juno was the best way I have seen so far to address this issue. Something you didn't see even in the so much acclaimed Motif.
Now, with the Gi it appears that the options you have to select patches are:
- select the category, turn the wheel until you find the patch you need and press enter
- press a button to enter the numeric mode, enter the patch number using the pads (which are not arranged in a conventional 3x3 array, but in a line), press enter
- recall the Favorite list, turn the wheel until you find the patch, press enter
None of these methods is fast and reliable enough to be used during a live show. Plus, if you choose to use the Favorite list, before every different show you should clean up the list and rebuild it again with the correct sounds for that shows, while the Live Settings mode can hold the patches you need for many different shows.
So I really wonder why they dropped the Live Settings mode in a live-oriented keyboard... trust me, the live settings mode was one of the reason I chose the Juno-G over other instruments. If you play live, it is something you will never want to give up once you tried it.
Of course maybe I missed something...
Now, with the Live Settings mode I just lay out the patches I need for the show and then with a single button press I can select the correct patch. It is one of the best things I have ever seen in 20 years of synth history!
And another wonderful thing is that in the Live Settings mode you can put both patches and performances, and recall them with a single button press without having to switch from patch to performance mode and back. The conventional method, which we have used for the past 20 years, is to select the number of the patch on a numeric keypad. You then make a list of the songs you will play and write the numbers of the patches you will use for each song, in case you forget the numbers. The problem is that with synths with 1000+ sounds this method is not as quick as it was in the past, when you could select the patch tipically with two buttons (one for the bank and the other for the patch). Also, it is quite easy to enter the wrong number and choose the wrong sound. The Live Settings mode introduced in the Fantoms/Juno was the best way I have seen so far to address this issue. Something you didn't see even in the so much acclaimed Motif.
Now, with the Gi it appears that the options you have to select patches are:
- select the category, turn the wheel until you find the patch you need and press enter
- press a button to enter the numeric mode, enter the patch number using the pads (which are not arranged in a conventional 3x3 array, but in a line), press enter
- recall the Favorite list, turn the wheel until you find the patch, press enter
None of these methods is fast and reliable enough to be used during a live show. Plus, if you choose to use the Favorite list, before every different show you should clean up the list and rebuild it again with the correct sounds for that shows, while the Live Settings mode can hold the patches you need for many different shows.
So I really wonder why they dropped the Live Settings mode in a live-oriented keyboard... trust me, the live settings mode was one of the reason I chose the Juno-G over other instruments. If you play live, it is something you will never want to give up once you tried it.
Of course maybe I missed something...
Re: Patches or tones only ? and sampling capabilities?
You should wait for the manual to be released and see what's there.
Re: Patches or tones only ? and sampling capabilities?
Yes, you're right. I hope there's something more that they didn't show in the videos.
Maybe the Special Live Set mode, which isn't covered in details, is more powerful than what they showed in the videos. IMHO the 2 important things are: possibility to assign parts to an external controller in addition to the 4 parts you can split/layer in the local keyboard (which, anyway, does indeed look as a limitation, for example you could never make something like B4Real, which I use) and a quick way to select patches in a prearranged list. And they should add sampling and sample pads soon, if they really aren't there.
Now I'm going to play my good old Juno-G!
Maybe the Special Live Set mode, which isn't covered in details, is more powerful than what they showed in the videos. IMHO the 2 important things are: possibility to assign parts to an external controller in addition to the 4 parts you can split/layer in the local keyboard (which, anyway, does indeed look as a limitation, for example you could never make something like B4Real, which I use) and a quick way to select patches in a prearranged list. And they should add sampling and sample pads soon, if they really aren't there.
Now I'm going to play my good old Juno-G!