JUNO-Gi vs MOX6 - Can someone help me choose!

[jimmy]

Hi all,

I was initially interested in the JUNO Gi because of it's amazing sounds/patches/voices, like this organ and this gorgeous bell piano patch. I also watched this demo and was impressed by all the sounds demonstrated.

However the issue I'm having is that the MOX6 appears to have way more in terms of features, I love the MOX6's Guitar Slide and Harmonics buttons on the acoustic guitar patches, I like all the arpeggiator presets as well since I could see those being useful when composing. The Juno Gi's recorder means little to me as I will be using this keyboard connected to a workstation at all times, though the fact the MOX6 can actually record MIDI is appealing. It also appears to be friendlier than the Gi when it comes to working with all 16 MIDI multitimbral tracks.

All I'm going to use this keyboard for is basically a sound module + keyboard connected to my computer, with most of the composition work being done on the PC. However the big thing for me is the quality of the sounds. The MOX6 sounds, in the videos I've seen, appear to be thinner in comparison to the Gi and less inspirational. Is this true? Even though the Gi has a smaller waverom it seems to pack more of a punch with the sound quality, but the MOX6 offers more in terms of phrasing and preexisting arpeggios which might help me make more believable guitar parts for example. Is the Juno-Gi capable of any of these features?

What do people think? Should I go for the MOX6 or the Juno Gi, or is there another third choice?

[Xtrife]

I'm not sure but the MOX6 probably has more sound features than the Juno Gi. I suppose the Juno has to sacrifice some in order to include the built in recorder you wont be using. However, I don't know how much you care about sound programming or anything and then, as far as sound quality goes, I can't really tell. I own a Juno Gi, but the MOX, I only tried one for a little one at a store back when I was visiting the US. But I can't say it was that much different or superior.

What I did notice though, were the huge amount of preset, configuration and editing capabilities which is probably where the Juno Gi is lacking, relatively speaking that is!

[tnicoson]

Jimmy

As far as physical and sound quality, I think these two boards would be about equal. The Gi is primarily a synth, so its sound pallet, while including a vast selection of acoustic instrument PCM samples, is heavily slanted toward synth sounds and raw synth waveforms, while the MOX is a typical ROMpler with a sound pallet heavy on acoustic instrument samples with a fair selection of synth sounds thrown in for those that need them. The MOX does have the Motif XS sound engine, while the new MOXF sports the XF sound engine, and that says a lot for either one of those models.

BUT . . . I am really posting this in answer to you concern about the Gi. The Gi is actually two keyboards in one. It has the 4-Tone LiveSet layering technology similar to the Jupiter 50/80 for playing from the keybed, but it also has a completely separate 16 part multi-timbral sound engine for playing from external sequencers. Any incoming MIDI data is automatically directed to the 16 part multi-timbral sound source rather than to the LiveSet sound engine. So, you needn't let that be a show stopper if you are considering the Gi. In that respect, it operates like any other 16 part multi-timbral sound module, and while the incoming MIDI can select and play any of the 1300 high quality sounds, the default 16-part sound bank is the GM sound bank for automatic GM compatibility.

[jimmy]

Thanks for the replies so far guys.

I already have a VA synth (Novation Ultranova), so I'm really looking for something to fill the void when it comes to realistic instruments, primarily acoustic and electric guitar, solo woodwind and brass. From what you said tnicoson it is sounding like perhaps the MOX6 is better in that regard, since I am already covered for synth sounds no problem. The only other issue I have, after reading this thread, is the fact the MOX6 has only 64 polyphony, but I'm unsure if I would run into this issue in a Keyboard+DAW setup.

Thats good to know the Gi works solidly as a sound module, some of the things I was reading on here made the whole MIDI setup seem quite complex. The bonus of having 128 polyphony on this keyboard still makes it hard to choose between these two. The new MOXF6 which you mentioned looks like a good keyboard and seems to resolve this issue with 128 poly also but unfortunately it's quite a bit more expensive than the MOX.

EDIT: Quick question, does anyone have a demo of acoustic guitars on the Juno Gi. I've not found anything so far online.

[Xtrife]

Here's a little piece in mp3 format i recorded using the Juno Gi a couple of days after i bought it. I coincidentally used a steel guitar at the beginning. Not much, but maybe worth something.

It was all recorded using the Juno recorder, I plugged in my electric guitar and played the distorted riffs and guitar solo. The rest I played with the juno sounds i programmed (strings, solo lead...).

Hope that helps

EDIT: also, I think the Juno recorded it using a wav format. I ended up converting it to mp3 using my pc.

[jimmy]

Thanks for sharing this! Very nice demo of the Synth :) At the end of the steel guitar section I heard a note with a louder twang to it, I assume that was produced by a higher velocity? Overall the guitar sounds pretty good, so this is helping with the decision.

[Xtrife]

Exactly, higher velocity produces a "guitar slide", which would sound realistic enough if used in a better situation lol.

[yamahaforums]

Just to add my 2cents since I have owned both the Juno Gi and the MOX. The Juno Gi is not a synth, it's a rompler...Roland's words not mine! It was never meant to be a synth which is why it has no software editor. Yes it does excel in the synth "presets" department but, what you hear is what you got. You can tweak it to a degree but you can't "create" your own sounds. I argued with Roland for a long time about the lack of a software editor but they said it was simply not possible to produce one for the Gi due to it's architecture. There is one for the Juno Di which, if you don't need the Gi's on-board recorder may be a better path to go down. It's also a lot cheaper. Both the Gi and the Di use the same Fantom G based sound engine so your not losing anything there. Both have 128 note polyphony and both have over 1000 presets so plenty there to get you up and running. Definitely worth a look.

The MOX, although not being to my taste in regard to it's sound set is a very versatile keyboard. It's not without it's faults of course but it does have a software editor so you can be very creative in the sound department if you so wish.

The Polyphony issue is not something I ran into on the MOX although I can see it may become a problem for some people depending on the complexity of the sounds and how many are used at once. Quite why it was on 64 is a mystery but I would guess Yamaha wanted a clear demarcation between their mid priced keyboards and the top end Motif's. Still, these days there really is no excuse for giving only 64 notes of polyphony and in fact they have just proved that with the MOXF range.

Right now I would not choose either of them though. My money would go on a Korg Krome but that is a personal preference and I am in no way saying it is better than the Yamaha or Roland, "for me" it is better but you may have other priorities and prefer a different sound and different way of working.

[specialplant]

I used to own the Juno Stage, then the MoX and now the MoXF. IMO, the juno Stage was better than the Gi regarding the patch archictecture, you could edit much more than in the Gi. Regarding the sound, I liked the Juno Stage more than the MoX due to the SRX boards I could use (so I changed to SonicCell, which is almost the same as Juno Stage, then exchanged it with the Integra, as an addition to the MoX). Now, the MoXF has much better sounds than the MoX (only 128 additional ones, but very good ones identical to the Motif XF, AND the flash board of 1 GB for additional sample libraries. This makes it far superior to the Korg Krome, too. The Krome has great pianos and e-pianos, but the rest is rather average IMO, I tested it in detail, and it has no sample loading option. But I will definitely keep the Roland SRX sounds, too, keeping my Integra.

[jimmy]

Really I'm looking into the units as standalone, however the Juno Stage is a valid third option (thanks for suggesting that specialplant), with 128MB waverom with an editor, and also appears to be quite affordable used, but after listening to demos of it again the Gi seems to manage to have better preset sounds in comparison, with more punchiness. What I can't overlook however is the growth potential, and with the Gi I really am going to be stuck with the sounds it comes with, but with the MOX6 there is a great editor bundled with it, and with the Stage there is also an editor (in addition to the SRX expansion). I'm just concerned with how thin/flat the MOX seems to sound on the demos - just not sure I want that trebley Yamaha sound. I'm beginning to think that there is no clear answer to this, so I will try and visit some music stores to try them both out and see what I think.

[jimmy]

Made a bit of a breakthrough, came across AudioFanzine's audio demo's of both synths:
http://en.audiofanzine.com/digital-synt ... ias/audio/
http://en.audiofanzine.com/workstation/ ... ias/audio/

To my ear the MOX6 is actually sounding much more believable when it comes to simulating the acoustic instruments. I can't stand that plastic Yamaha piano sound though, I can see why they introduced the darker Piano in the MOXF6. Ignoring the piano I think everything else sounds pretty good, and I'm beginning to think that the smarter purchase is the MOX6. Couldn't have done this without you guy's help and input though :) Still want to try and play both before making a final decision obv.

[specialplant]

But why not MoXF instead of MoX? It offers so much more, especially due to the 1GB flash, and it's not expensive at all. As you say, the new S6 piano sample is much more realistic than the CF3 sample, and if you buy a flash board (in Germany there's one from the manufacturer Mutec which is cheaper), you get two sample libraries from Yamaha for free, one is the CP1 package containing further good piano samples taken from the CP1 digital piano. I've just installed it, it's really of high quality.

[jimmy]

Right now the MOXF6 is $1199.99 on Amazon, where as the MOX6 is $879.99, so it's over $300 less. Also not sure I could bring myself to spend over $1000 on something with creaky cheap plastic. Maybe if I could find a good deal on the MOXF6 I'd do it but otherwise it's just outside the budget I was looking to spend (between $700-$900).

[JunoJohn]

Forget Amazon. Call up a well-regarded music retailer like Musician's Friend or Sweetwater and ask about any deals they might offer you. They often give discounts of around 15%.

So, if you're interested in a MOXF6, you could aim for $1000. You might not get that price, but there is no harm in asking.

Also, look for bundles that you might find valuable. For example, Sweetwater has one that might intrigue you.

[jimmy]

So I went to a music store! Apparently the MOX6 is now officially discontinued, so they only had a MOXF8 out, and as I said the MOXF6 it outside my budget so I didn't play on it. They did have both the MX61 for an insanely low price ($499) and a Juno Gi ($799) out to play, and the MX61 also has the Motif XS engine.

If anyone is wondering the store is Long and McQuade, I always get my music stuff from these guys, the amazon links in the previous posts were just a point of reference.

For the MX61 I just couldn't stand the thing, the screen was microscopic, even smaller than the MOX6, which is verging on the rediculous. As others have said, there isn't much difference in Acoustic sounds, perhaps with the XS sounds being marginally better, so it ultimately boiled down to my personal feeling about them as instruments. The Juno Gi, despite it's flaws, feels like a keyboard that wants to be played, it sits there with a big friendly screen, clear, well laid out out buttons. The MX61 really requires a computer to get the most out of, and at that point, why not just use a softsynth instead, even though for that price it was very tempting. What sealed the deal for me however was the Juno's electric guitar sounds, which were awesome and a LOT of fun to play.

So yeah, despite a lack of an editor (though the third party editor is slowly coming along), I think I'm gonna go for the Gi. It's just a "fun" instrument, and maybe thats my criteria. It's the same as the reason I got the Ultranova - great fun to play and program - even though it's not multitimbral and has no FM. Does go to show that it's all down to personal preference really.