NAMM 16 very disappointing for Roland

[flyingace]

I was very disappointed to see the offerings from Roland this NAMM. :( An electric Cajon... coz that's what everyone has been clamoring for. :) ugh.

It would be nice if they would support our current models instead of leaving us high and dry as they introduce more crap we don't need.

Did I miss something spectacular? please let me know!

[Tom_1970]

I guess you missed the stuff Roland released in the last two years.
(TR-8, TB-3, System-1, VT-3, JD-Xi, JD-XA, System-1m, Aira effect modules, System-500, Juno DS, Boutique)
I think that's incredible amount of new gear in such a short timespan, especially when compared to what other companies did in the same time.

Sure I do expect a nice instrument with extended ACB and Plugout capabilities in time for instance, but I think it's too early to see such things...

Also, Roland didn't use the NAMM or Messe solely to present their gear.
The Aira range of products was presented at the Dance Fair in Utrecht and the Boutiques via internet.

There was quite a spectacular update for the Aira effect modules by the way.
With 16 new submodules you actually have a small modular synthesizer with these units.

I don't know which models you suggests need support and updates, but I think that we had some nice updates, at least for the Roland stuff I have. The TR-8 had a great update with the possibility to expand it with sounds from different drum machines.
The System-1(m) had a very nice update which doubled the waveforms and extended the patch memory.
The MX-1 now supports more instruments than just the Aira range of products.

I think there is always some things to desire, but after all I think Roland did some impressive things recently.

[flyingace]

Yes, I agree that they have released a bunch over the last two years, but it is becoming more and more apparent that they are diverging from what I need as a musician and focusing on others that like mini keys, tiny boutique, less functions from keyboards, cheaper builds and terrible feeling keyboards. :(

[Tom_1970]

I do not fully agree.

I agree there is a lot of plastic in gear these days, not particularly Roland.
There is also a trend in minikeys, but I think that Roland gave us a choice with the Boutiques to buy the modules or ad a mini keyboard, unlike other companies mini keys instrument, such as the Minilogue and Reface DX (although I have to admit that the Reface keyboard is as best as minikeys can get.

I think there is a lot of demand to affordable instruments and the big companies supply this needs.
Instruments with the build quality of for instance the JP-80 comes in a certain price level that isn't really main stream I suppose.
I played a JD-Xi last week and I agree that it has a somehow cheap look and feel. When in it comes to the instrument itself I think you get a lof of functionality and good sounds for a reasonable price.
It doesn't appeal to me, but I can imagine this as my first synth years ago.

I think no company can answer everyone's wishes and demands, but I think that Roland has made a lot of people happy with an instrument like the TR-8.
When it comes to my personal taste I am a lucky guy I suppose.
Just after my wife and I made the decision to go modular, Roland released the System-1m and the Aira effect modules and we are now awaiting the arrival of the System-500.
From what I read the System-500 are really well build and from my own experience I can say that the Aira modules are sturdy and I also don't have anything to complain about the System-1m.

Sure if you're not into modular the latest developments in companies like Roland, Waldorf and Modal would not suit your needs, but for me these are exciting times since so many companies develop interesting things.

[flyingace]

Tom, I'm glad to know that they are make some of their customers happy these days. And you're right, no company can satisfy every customer every time. I'm also happy for your excitement over the new modular systems coming out. Truth be told, I'm not sure what they are or what you do with them. Maybe the trend will swing back around to my needs, maybe not. Maybe I'll learn to adapt to the offerings that are out there. Right now I have some great tools that are, mostly, working for my needs. I just need Roland to continue to support their older gear too. If you get the chance, please post a good link to an example/overview to the modular stuff that might help explain to those of us that are unfamiliar with this area.

Thanks!

[Tom_1970]

I am just a beginner in modular.

My first steps into modular began with a Doepfer Dark Energy and Dark Time.
That gave me the taste for modular and after watching the documentary "I dream of wires" we decided to go real modular.
We bought a System-1m and a Demora and, as said we are now awaiting the arrival of the System-500.

There is a lot of modular stuff on Youtube, but they are not necessarily all that musical.
A lot of modular snippets are more like noise than music to put it mildly. ;-)

For me modular synthesizers are not only about making music, but also about exploring sound and the fun of plugging cables and turning knobs.
I have some of my more musically intended snippets on Youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYy4FgS8Ovg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEFLiMf3tc0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meKkXX4vtYs

[flyingace]

Nice and sounds fun, from an experimental synthesis point of view. I have always loved the synth sound but admittedly, never been that much into doing more than just tweaking to get the sounds I want to play and perform. I think that's why I do love my Jupiter 80, it's more of a performance instrument and that's the kind of stuff I do, from singer/songwriter type of sets to preparing a few sequences or backing tracks and playing piano or guitar on top of them. The synth abilities of my 80 are probably overkill for my needs but I just fell in love with it. Can't part with it either, too much invested and resale is just too difficult (losing money and the sheer weight of this thing). There are probably other, better offerings out there for my needs, which is why Roland has quit focusing on making more Fantoms and the FA and Juno DS models are their answer for those of us looking for that. I've owned a Krome (hated the keyboard), Juno Gi, Juno Di, Juno Stage (still own, daughter plays it), Korg SV-1 (still own and love). I really would love to have another Juno Stage with all that it does (arps and drums programmable, easy structure, well built, great key bed, but with the Jupiter SN engine and big screen)

Thanks for sharing and your perspective!

[kimsnarf]

The Jupiter-80 is still king at what it does. There are cheaper options, smaller options, some with better sounds (in some areas, but not overall), some with more features (especially arpeggiators, sequencing etc), but none that have the same broad, good-sounding range in such a well-built and easily playable package.

The Montage could be a contender, but it is ridiculously more expensive and it bets the whole synth engine on FM, which has a limited range of usable timbres and is hard to control. Some find the Jupiter-80 sound hierarchy difficult, but it is child's play compared to the confusion going on in the Montage discussions. So far no one has seemed to grasp how it works, despite pages of complex explanations by Yamaha employees. And there are all kinds of weird limitations, not unlike the Jupiter-80, which seem unavoidable once you reach a certain level of complexity. The grass is not greener on the other side.

I prefer my DSI synths for true synth stuff, but I still want a keyboard I can just fire up and comfortably play whatever in whichever style, with good tweakability. The Jupiter-80 remains unique. And its 4 parts (and corresponding on/off layer buttons and splits) are great for playing the other synths from its superior key bed.

[Devnor]

I'm currently using a Motif XF7 with my band. I find the Montage one of the most exciting synthesizers since the release of the Jupiter 80.

[kimsnarf]

Yes, the Montage is exciting! I am eager to learn more about it and try one out. My point was just that its arrival does not mean the Jupiter-80 is now less of a flagship. These two are different enough. But it would have been great if its arrival had spurred Roland into giving its flagship an update, if only in software, to show that they still support it. Adding it to the MX-1 USB support was a nice move. It shouldn't take much to make it feel fresh again. Like the Motif getting Karma 3 on the PC side when Kronos got Karma 2 on the synth side.

[Tom_1970]

The Waldorf KB37+modules and OB-6 were very tempting, but fortunately my wife wants them anyway, so they're no issue here anymore. ;-)

However I think The Jupiter-80 still is a class on its own to my opinion.
There have been quite some changes in my setup since the Jupiter entered our studio, but the Jupiter feels like its fundament (together with the FA-06, because of the workstation capabilities).
Adding a OB-6 won't change that. Same with modular.

The Montage doesn't appeal to me.
Not beacause I think it's a bade instrument (I still love my CS6x), but I don't like the workflow in Yamaha Synths/Workstations.
I think 8 operator FM synthesis has a lot of potential, although I didn't hear that in demos so far.

[Vondragonnoggin]

For those of us that will never have a chance for a System 100M or System 700, the System 500 is the closest we will get.

I just couldn't get as excited over the System 1M, but glad they have crossed over to cv control on that product. Great price too.

The old classic Roland analog sound is very powerful. Its not just that either. Its entirely usable in a variety of styles.

[Happy]

I did not follow synth and the music hardware much in past many years but when getting back into it in 2014 with my TR-8 purchase and Aira coming on line I felt the number of new products , high end and entry level quite overwhelming like it never stopped, not only from Roland, but also DSI (P6,Pro2,P12,OB6), Oberheim, Korg and others too like Modal. The variety of modulars is exploding and still is. 2015 NAMM felt like a peak for synths and 2016 NAMM perhaps for analog and modular. 2016 NAMM did felt much colder Synths wise but perhaps maybe it is because 2014/2015 were quite "hot" years. Just hope Roland will continue provide updates and build further on the Aira series (CR-78 for TR-8 etc..) and analog like in the JD-XA, perhaps some analog rack modules with the Boutique and System 1 sounds supporting several "slots" (8?) to mix and match Boutique/System1 emulations . Personally i would hope that manufacturers would come out with some USB 3/3.1 audio interfaces with many line inputs like at least 16 with 2 ADAT inputs for connecting two 8 line analog to ADAT boxes reaching up to 32 lines ins as many people may have lots of smaller stuff with analog line outs to hook up to the PC . Even high end gear (DSI, Nord etc..) only provide analog outs. Another solution for this would be USB Audio aggregation, that is, like what the MX-1 does for Aira and Overbridge for Elektron products but now for all equipment that provide audio over USB, but unless there is a standard so that all gear provides a USB audio out that may be a dream for now unless a new Dave Smith and Ikotaru Kakehashi stand up. An 8 or 16 port MIDI USB 3.1 interface (so far only still M-Audio makes MIDI interfaces but only with 4 ports) with routing functions that can work stand alone and works on Linux (MOTU's don't I read) is another dream. Still lots of people use MIDI DIN. Concluding, it feels a bit "quiet" now after a period of manufacturers re-issuing lots of (analog) legacy gear, but perhaps there are some totally new and different things in the making, specially hoping on something really new & different from Moog.