Did god ceate the Universe (Stephen Hawking)

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ozy
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Re: Did god ceate the Universe (Stephen Hawking)

Post by ozy »

SkylineUK wrote:
Andy Keys wrote:If God is beyond this Universe why would he/she/it need time to exist?
Time is simply nature's way of making sure everything doesn't happen at once!
In other terms, Time is God's answer to the MIDI serial protocol's limitations.

Uhm... Makes sense.
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V-CeeOh
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Re: Did god ceate the Universe (Stephen Hawking)

Post by V-CeeOh »

SkylineUK wrote:
Andy Keys wrote:If God is beyond this Universe why would he/she/it need time to exist?
Time is simply nature's way of making sure everything doesn't happen at once!
...or that they just don't happen at all ;-)
canefire
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Re: Did god ceate the Universe (Stephen Hawking)

Post by canefire »

God is in the math rules.

Cheers,
Ian
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Quinnx.
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Re: Did god ceate the Universe (Stephen Hawking)

Post by Quinnx. »

I think it was kinda weak argument to try say that because time did not exist neither could god.
I mean..
If god is real and all powerfull
god would not need time to exist since god would not be governed by such rules..

Heres another thought..

Since time apparently passes at different rates depending on which part of the the universe/multiverse you are.. While one day may pass in one place a thousand years or more may pass in another.

Now the bible says god created everything in 7 days including man but looking at how long evolution took in our time frame .. it would appear these 7 days are 7 god days where each day for god is many many thousand/million years for us.

Now the question

How old is GOD?
if 7 days took us to ADAM and Eve (MAN) which we know was millions of years
then god is watching us on fast forward while god remains on normal play.
so this is now 7 days later or are we on Day 8? and how old is god?
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SoundworldA.D.
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Re: Did god ceate the Universe (Stephen Hawking)

Post by SoundworldA.D. »

Ah, this one was just too juicy to pass up...so here is a Doogenator prolix!

First off, I’ll give a little of the Doogenator’s background so that I’m not perceived as one of those “short-sighted, believe what you’re told do-gooders”. I have been through many years of hard toil, been a drug addict, Taken LSD trips and mescaline trips through the cosmos, reached a tipping point, studied most of the major religions, Conspiracy Theory, Secret Societies, Economics and then even dabbled in trying to understand politics (what a bore!) which can be broken down into one sentence…”followest thou the money”.

People ask me if I am “religious” and I say no. This usually confuses them if they know that I study and believe in The Bible. The word comes from the Greek word “religio” which in short means “return to bondage”. Basically, religion is man’s way of trying to bring God down to our level. It ain’t gonna happen! I look with wonderment at how many so-called “faith’s” there are and realize that the “spiritual rulers” of this world have done their job well at keeping the masses from the real truth. Again, the “[love of] money is the ROOT of all evil” aspect raises its ugly head as we see numerical success and even worldliness (bigger is not necessarily always better!) creeping into and being confused with spiritual anointing in so many of today’s churches.

I looked on as “men of faith” were held in derision and lambasted by scientists and critics for their lame attempts at explaining something they didn’t fully understand. Earth is literally six to seven thousand years old? Created in seven literal days? Right-o mates! The Ancients understood the concept of Precession…why can’t you?!! I’m being cynical here but with good reason. These men may have meant well, but trying to explain what The Bible says in those areas, without a strong basis in Astronomy and REAL Ancient History (not necessarily what’s taught in school books either mate!) is like building a house on a foundation of sand! Anybody who thinks that the engineers that were able to build edifices like the Great Pyramid and Puma Punku without some knowledge from a “higher plane” are unfortunately missing a few tools in their tool boxes!

The original question then, the time aspect of it aside (for in eternity, there is no need for time as we know it, hence the verse in 2nd Peter about “a day as a thousand years and a thousand years as a day) is “does God exist”? Lively debates can no doubt be had on all of the different “ism’s” that co-exist and of their particular merits and shortcomings in light of the question. Evolutionists will always have to stumble over and contend with the entropy question, but that is a debate for another day.

I used to think that I could convince non-believers with such simple things like Pascal’s Wager or, even worse, Bible verses themselves. It was only after having a spiritual awakening that I fully understood the meaning of Romans 1:18-23, and 1st Corinthians 1:18-23. In light of finally understanding those, I also then grasped the meaning of Matthew 7:6. For, unless someone’s spiritual antenna has first been raised by the Holy Spirit, such words will just be dismissed as “foolishness” anyway.

Faith, by its very definition is given as “belief in things yet unseen”. The analogy of the wind given in The Bible is brilliant in this regard. For those who have had their spiritual eyes and ears opened, they no longer see The Bible or the World in the same light. By the same token, those who have not had this awakening may not sense such spiritual verities at all. From the fall of our original parents where the way of “self” was chosen rather than the perfect way of Godliness, we have seen the effects of this great cosmic struggle, as the Mystery of Godliness contends with the Mystery of Lawlessness right up until this very day.

Two bloodlines were and still are present in the world…the line of Cain and the line of Seth. This duality of natures was present before and after the irruption of the Nephilim (a.k.a. “fallen angels”, spoken of in the Book of Enoch and mentioned in the Book of Jude) and it is no coincidence that the “One World Order” spoken of in the 17th and 18th chapter of Revelation is called “Mystery Babylon”. For the same spiritual powers that attempted the first “One World Order” with the Tower are hell-bent on having another!

So, I no longer feel the need to debate my faith and even recoil from having to do so because it is usually a no-win situation. Realizing that my fight was actually against “spiritual wickedness in high places” was a huge burden lifted from my shoulders. I have gotten glimpses of these “other realms” courtesy of mind-altering substances and knowing as much as I do about the Illumination process (conferred in Secret Societies and other such Theosophic circles to “worthy” initiates) the reason for it, and the way that power is actually exercised in this world by these powers has detached me from really caring about such things as day to day worries or who is President or who the next “American Idol” is.

Now I know the meaning of “the peace that passes all understanding” and realize that Christ is not just some historical figure that came, died on the cross, rose on the third day and all that but an actual Living Word within me. The spiritual implications of this are still staggering to my feeble mind and I can only still but “see through the glass darkly” but patiently wait for the day when we will see “face to face” and all will be revealed. I get a tingle (actually more like an electric jolt…must be the Christian version of the old Kundalini!) up my spine every time I read 1st Corinthians 2:9-16 and Romans 8:38-39.

And so, I get up each morning and celebrate each day as if it were my last, just rejoicing and having a blast doing the things that make me and the others around me happy. I am thankful for my many blessings, health-wise and financially since I was not born into wealth and due to the aforementioned drugs did not even get to finish college. I am thankful for the wisdom to know that I am no man’s judge because I myself am not perfect, and pray for the strength and humility to be able to apologize when my words or actions might offend others.

That’s my two cents worth…now back to the music thing!
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Quinnx.
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Re: Did god ceate the Universe (Stephen Hawking)

Post by Quinnx. »

Interesting comments.. however this is not really a religious or personal debate more of a philosophical one.
I too have studied the bible cover to cover and have managed to integrate both bible and science in to one and the same to the point where they dont conflict with one another.
example: information contained in Question posed above.
Interesting answers may follow..
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SoundworldA.D.
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Re: Did god ceate the Universe (Stephen Hawking)

Post by SoundworldA.D. »

Thanks QuinnX. Yes, old Doogie kind of went "over the top" with his rambling discourse, but, on the other hand, no one will have any doubts as to where he stands on that score! ;-(|)
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PauloF
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Re: Did god ceate the Universe (Stephen Hawking)

Post by PauloF »

SoundworldA.D. wrote:Thanks QuinnX. Yes, old Doogie kind of went "over the top" with his rambling discourse, but, on the other hand, no one will have any doubts as to where he stands on that score! ;-(|)
No doubts at all !! ;-)
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Quinnx.
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Re: Did god ceate the Universe (Stephen Hawking)

Post by Quinnx. »

The whole bible thing can sometime be taken to far by some to the extent if dismissing everything else in view just like the God create everything in 7 days..
some hang on to this so much that the idea of evolution is a stupid idea altogether and wont have anything to do with science at all..

another similarity would be String theory,
for years many scientist worked on this and they each found there own version of the theory of which contradicted each other.
Each dismissing the other in favor of their own.
It was only when they accepted they where all the same and put them together did it all make sense.
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motic
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Re: Did god ceate the Universe (Stephen Hawking)

Post by motic »

I believe in only one Prophet and that's made by Dave Smith.
Humans can only think 'human', saying 'understanding the Divine' would be way over their head anyway!
If we are all made in His image i hope He wasn't so ugly as my neighbor! :D
Time is but relative (for us anyway), take a look at the night sky and realize you'r looking at (mostly) non existent (as in 'extinguished') star remnant lights (if it is not overcast by city lights).. our senses produce a 'real bunch' of electrochemical particles in our brain (on a personal and individual level ;•) and only the idea that 'perception w'd be the same for every one' is as crazy as it sounds IMHO
Then rise the question: which one has the right one?... probably they all have in their own presumption!
Yesterday was the discovery of a new (largest) prime number -- 2 multiplied by itself 57,885,161 times, written mathematically as 257,885,161-1 -- is the first prime discovered in four years.
Enough on that to 'split my brain cells'! (and that's a fact!)
Rest my case.
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Quinnx.
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Re: Did god ceate the Universe (Stephen Hawking)

Post by Quinnx. »

speaking of relative time and star light..

Each point in the night sky is light years away which means it took that many years for us to see them..
so if they all suddenly where extinguished right now (real time)
we would not be aware that there are actually no stars in the sky for several maybe hundreds of years and what we see now is just an echo of what was.
So in reality as we look up to the nigh sky we are actually looking at the universal past not the present.
Which kinda leads us in to a conundrum..
can we ever choose to visit anyone of these stars without knowing if it realy still exists?
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