I know this subject has been beat to death in the past, but it's been a little while, and I'm curious of people's thoughts, especially since NAMM is now nearly two months in the past. The concern is that existing gear we own, as great as it is, wears out, and eventually needs to be replaced. In that vein, has the era of monster build quality keyboards ended for Roland?
What was the last truly robust, solidly built keyboard from Roland? I would argue the JP80. Of course, the RD-800 has a fantastic keybed, to be sure, but the long term ability for it to hold up to the rigors of playing is suspect, especially when you realize some of the obvious cost saving short cuts Roland took with it. (I sold mine after six months - long story)
Look at everything else Roland has released. I would argue most of their current keyboard gear is semi-pro stuff. Probably a huge market for that type of gear, so I'm sure there's a solid reason behind it. But if I'm going to spend hard earned money on a new instrument, I prefer to buy quality. Everything new from Roland is weak from the perspective of build quality (holds up to repeated passionate performances and has a solid keybed), and innovation. Everything is focused on "cheap". I'm not suggesting your FA-06 is garbage... just simply comparing it to the most recent previous version (say, the G6).
The latest version of everything fits this. The JP50, while not a bad synth, is a cheapened version of the JP80. The FA series is a cheapened version of the Fantoms. The VR-09 is a cheapened version of the VR series organs. Even the new synths cater to a "musician" that cares less about quality and longevity than just looking cool for the moment. When i saw the prototype JD-XA at NAMM the first thing I noticed was how "cheap" the build quality looked (I realize it was a prototype, but it was pretty close to what it will be when finished, including the less than stellar 49 keys keybed). The Junos, the Aira (If you consider it a keyboard), etc. All rather cheap, wall-wart ladden, compromised keybed, plastic encased revision of something that Roland used to make better.
So I ask the question - Have we seen the end of an era at Roland?
Has an era ended at Roland?
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spottingjonah
- Posts: 107
- Joined: 16:01, 2 August 2013
- Location: Tennessee, USA
Re: Has an era ended at Roland?
Have we seem an end of an era at Roland? i hope so! When I saw your heading I was not thinking build quality but about synthesis. It has been a loooong time since Roland produced an analog synthesizer. Personally I became frustrated with Roland for the constant rehash of what was ultimately a JV-80 synth engine. From the JV-80 and lesser synths which were based on the sound canvas engine: JV-30, JV-35, JV-50, W-50, Xp-10. The V-Synth was a breath of fresh air from Roland. I had to get it. Anyway the the JV sound engine was tweaked for the XV stuff and later went into the Fantoms. I ended up getting a Fantom X6 and sold my XP-30 because it was so similar in sound. The new Jupiter, though not what the synth world overall was hoping for or at least me (a genuine successor of the Jupiter-8 covered in sliders and knobs) is unique and a step away from the XV/Fantom Sound engine. I know there were also the VA synths sprinkled in here and there like JP-8000, SH-201, SH-01 Gaia, all of which get to your posts intent about build quality. Which those three synths were cheaply built.
Roland has built cheap synthesizers in the past too. Right of the top of my head SH-101, Alpha Junos, XP-10, JP-8000,SH-201, all of the new Junos, Jupiter-50 and now the upcoming release of the JD-Xi.
This trend though is not just a Roland thing. They all have been doing it. Look at KORG I am not all to familiar with their complete synth history but the Poly-800, X-5, microKorgs, Volcas, M-50, PS-60, Krome, Kross MS-2000 mini. YAMAHA has had a long history of cheap build quality too: SY-22, SY-35, CS-1X, CS-2X, AN-1X, SO-3, the latest MX series.
I would not say an end of an era for Roland but an end of an era in general. There are factors that I am sure have contributed to this trend including, the global economy, restrictions by environmental agencies and activists.
The cheap build synths are inexpensive. They will sell at higher volumes than say a jupiter-80. Those high volume sales of cheap synths are probably a large part of these companies bread and butter.
About the The JD-XA. It looks to me like it would be built better that the JD-XA.
Looks like a brushed metal panel with metal fasteners. I am thinking it will have a metal bottom and no wall wart but a built in power supply. But who really knows until we have an actual working machine not a mock-up like the one displayed at NAMM.
Roland has built cheap synthesizers in the past too. Right of the top of my head SH-101, Alpha Junos, XP-10, JP-8000,SH-201, all of the new Junos, Jupiter-50 and now the upcoming release of the JD-Xi.
This trend though is not just a Roland thing. They all have been doing it. Look at KORG I am not all to familiar with their complete synth history but the Poly-800, X-5, microKorgs, Volcas, M-50, PS-60, Krome, Kross MS-2000 mini. YAMAHA has had a long history of cheap build quality too: SY-22, SY-35, CS-1X, CS-2X, AN-1X, SO-3, the latest MX series.
I would not say an end of an era for Roland but an end of an era in general. There are factors that I am sure have contributed to this trend including, the global economy, restrictions by environmental agencies and activists.
The cheap build synths are inexpensive. They will sell at higher volumes than say a jupiter-80. Those high volume sales of cheap synths are probably a large part of these companies bread and butter.
About the The JD-XA. It looks to me like it would be built better that the JD-XA.
Looks like a brushed metal panel with metal fasteners. I am thinking it will have a metal bottom and no wall wart but a built in power supply. But who really knows until we have an actual working machine not a mock-up like the one displayed at NAMM.
Re: Has an era ended at Roland?
What you see as cheap, low quality parts are compromises to reduce cost, size & weight. Is there any evidence FA, VR or the Jupiter 50 synths are failing? No, not really you are simply overthinking this.
Re: Has an era ended at Roland?
I think Roland will still make some high-end built like a tank things but you will have to pay for it.
Re: Has an era ended at Roland?
I prefer my synthesizers to be crafted from thick metal too. Woods also are nice.
Re: Has an era ended at Roland?
Such things are so subjective and strike folks differently.
I would say that it's not so much and end of an era but the beginning of a new one.
Seems to me we are seeing the effect of new management direction at Roland now. On one hand there is the brilliant AIRA range which has a specific target market in mind - but is also (on price) very accessible to a huge market. Similarly, the JD-Xi is out there re-imagining the analogue approach at a price point that should deliver volume sales.
The JD-XA will be the new top of the line (note I do not use the term flagship) synth, which will appeal to those who can afford it but of course leads to smaller volumes in sales - but expands on the digital/analogue crossover concept.
Bottom line is profit. Why do Roland need to build things out of high quality (expensive) metal for gear that will either never move from a studio (bedroom) or always be carried in flight cases? Why make things expensive when it doesn't need to be?
I'm all for Roland producing high volume, good margin sales - this finances R&D and production for the bigger stuff I'm interested in.
I have no doubt Roland will continue to serve the needs of those who want the 'tank' keyboards.
Ultimately, Roland is moving forward in new and imaginative ways - who else is doing ACB as well as digital/analogue crossover? Exactly. And that's what I mean by saying that we're seeing the start of a new era for new performers. I'm all for that :)
I would say that it's not so much and end of an era but the beginning of a new one.
Seems to me we are seeing the effect of new management direction at Roland now. On one hand there is the brilliant AIRA range which has a specific target market in mind - but is also (on price) very accessible to a huge market. Similarly, the JD-Xi is out there re-imagining the analogue approach at a price point that should deliver volume sales.
The JD-XA will be the new top of the line (note I do not use the term flagship) synth, which will appeal to those who can afford it but of course leads to smaller volumes in sales - but expands on the digital/analogue crossover concept.
Bottom line is profit. Why do Roland need to build things out of high quality (expensive) metal for gear that will either never move from a studio (bedroom) or always be carried in flight cases? Why make things expensive when it doesn't need to be?
I'm all for Roland producing high volume, good margin sales - this finances R&D and production for the bigger stuff I'm interested in.
I have no doubt Roland will continue to serve the needs of those who want the 'tank' keyboards.
Ultimately, Roland is moving forward in new and imaginative ways - who else is doing ACB as well as digital/analogue crossover? Exactly. And that's what I mean by saying that we're seeing the start of a new era for new performers. I'm all for that :)
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spottingjonah
- Posts: 107
- Joined: 16:01, 2 August 2013
- Location: Tennessee, USA
Re: Has an era ended at Roland?
Allow me be a bit more specific, because I think it deserves consideration. I'm not referring to what's under the hood. I agree that Roland still makes keyboards the "sound" good. But to that end so do countless plug-in developers. My Korg kronos sounds awesome... in SOME ways I think better than my JP80. And that indeed is VERY subjective. I'm talking exclusively about the hardware, because really, without the hardware, I could just as easily get a cheap controller and and Integra-7 (or a laptop and whatever installed).
And of course the current line-up isn't necessarily falling apart. But neither are my kids' legos... yet they're still toys. I know; bad example, but you get my point.
For me Roland has always been about the incredible hardware they produced. Great sounds under the hood, of course, but that can be said about many keyboard manufacturers over the years. Roland, however, has always been the leader in solidly built "controllers" (if you will). The keybeds have always been the best IMHO. From my old A-90, my XV-88, my current JP80, and others, the keybeds and hardware have always been amazing. Strong, solid, yes they're heavy, but ready to hold up under the worst of conditions and years of playing. THAT is what set Roland apart in my eyes, in a big way.
Today, the only "keyboard" available with their top of the line weighted keys in the RD-800 (Or the V-Piano). No "synth" with the PHA4 keys. Bummer. i would love to get in line for the latest iteration from Roland of a full-blown programmable synth with the latest PHA4 keys. Perhaps I'm in the minority and there's not enough demand to justify the R&D.
It's widely understood that the rash of wall-wart power cords from keyboards is a first-sign of it's intended audience and price point (i.e. is it a pro-board or semi-pro/prosumer?). Of course this isn't widespread acceptance, but it's a general guide. Add a ton of cheap-feeling plastic (I know I know... plastic is durable... that's not the point), lower grade keybed, and barely any advancement to older synth engine tech, and you have what I believe represents Roland for the past few years. Sure, i get it... analog this, ACB that... fine... that's under the hood.
So I ask the question again... has that era of rock solid hardware come to a close? For now maybe? Has Roland changed as a company to the point that we are seeing a new trend? I'm not saying the new stuff sucks. It's just not encased in hardware that demand confidence. if you disagree, I envy you.
Some of you may have seen this thread in the Integra-7 section viewtopic.php?f=54&t=49538&start=30
Interesting discussion about Roland's current state that I think may have application to this topic... if you dare.
Thank you all for your thoughts. It's interesting to read the different perspectives on this.
And of course the current line-up isn't necessarily falling apart. But neither are my kids' legos... yet they're still toys. I know; bad example, but you get my point.
For me Roland has always been about the incredible hardware they produced. Great sounds under the hood, of course, but that can be said about many keyboard manufacturers over the years. Roland, however, has always been the leader in solidly built "controllers" (if you will). The keybeds have always been the best IMHO. From my old A-90, my XV-88, my current JP80, and others, the keybeds and hardware have always been amazing. Strong, solid, yes they're heavy, but ready to hold up under the worst of conditions and years of playing. THAT is what set Roland apart in my eyes, in a big way.
Today, the only "keyboard" available with their top of the line weighted keys in the RD-800 (Or the V-Piano). No "synth" with the PHA4 keys. Bummer. i would love to get in line for the latest iteration from Roland of a full-blown programmable synth with the latest PHA4 keys. Perhaps I'm in the minority and there's not enough demand to justify the R&D.
It's widely understood that the rash of wall-wart power cords from keyboards is a first-sign of it's intended audience and price point (i.e. is it a pro-board or semi-pro/prosumer?). Of course this isn't widespread acceptance, but it's a general guide. Add a ton of cheap-feeling plastic (I know I know... plastic is durable... that's not the point), lower grade keybed, and barely any advancement to older synth engine tech, and you have what I believe represents Roland for the past few years. Sure, i get it... analog this, ACB that... fine... that's under the hood.
So I ask the question again... has that era of rock solid hardware come to a close? For now maybe? Has Roland changed as a company to the point that we are seeing a new trend? I'm not saying the new stuff sucks. It's just not encased in hardware that demand confidence. if you disagree, I envy you.
Some of you may have seen this thread in the Integra-7 section viewtopic.php?f=54&t=49538&start=30
Interesting discussion about Roland's current state that I think may have application to this topic... if you dare.
Thank you all for your thoughts. It's interesting to read the different perspectives on this.
Re: Has an era ended at Roland?
Roland make good boards
The problem is their empty promises and lack of support on all there product..
So right now if anyone has seen the light.
when roland release something dont be too quick to believe what you hear..
They always stretch the truth and release with bugs or unfinished interface or functions
leaving us all hanging in the wind for updates that either dont come or dont address what is needed.
That kind of behavior has encouraged loss of confidence in roland and they no longer have a strong following
so they are starting to feel the pinch and have to pull back to offering semi pro or more economical products to to try hold the market..
After the G, roland still showed there true colors once again with the FA. With frustrating workflow and file management and as usual, they released something has great potential and still manage to mess things up and slow to fix and when approach on the issues just push back with no commitment to fix.
There are only 2 product i would say from my perspective they came close to perfection in their arsenal, and that was
Fantom G
V-Synth-XT
after that it has just been a constant re-cycle of their old tech with a new trick thrown in to divert your attention away from the fact that your just buying the same stuff over and over again.
The problem is their empty promises and lack of support on all there product..
So right now if anyone has seen the light.
when roland release something dont be too quick to believe what you hear..
They always stretch the truth and release with bugs or unfinished interface or functions
leaving us all hanging in the wind for updates that either dont come or dont address what is needed.
That kind of behavior has encouraged loss of confidence in roland and they no longer have a strong following
so they are starting to feel the pinch and have to pull back to offering semi pro or more economical products to to try hold the market..
After the G, roland still showed there true colors once again with the FA. With frustrating workflow and file management and as usual, they released something has great potential and still manage to mess things up and slow to fix and when approach on the issues just push back with no commitment to fix.
There are only 2 product i would say from my perspective they came close to perfection in their arsenal, and that was
Fantom G
V-Synth-XT
after that it has just been a constant re-cycle of their old tech with a new trick thrown in to divert your attention away from the fact that your just buying the same stuff over and over again.
Re: Has an era ended at Roland?
I disagree with you on some of what you say.
Yes Roland has released products with bugs but they have met most if not all that I can think of going back to the original D-series when you had to get new Eproms made/installed. Besides all companys I have ever dealt with have had bugs and firmware updates including others Moog, Novation
Roland has made some very solid equipment. Most of my rig is Roland so I can say so from experience. Roland has supported their products too.
When the Fantom X came out they later added the audio recording expansion.
The original V-Synth saw version 2 with improvements.
The jupiter-80 saw further improvements with its version 2 (my only gripe is there was no software editor/librarian but it was not promised.)
The Aira line saw updates I am not sure where you are coming from saying they make empty promises and lack support on all their gear.
That is simply NOT true.
As far re-cycling old tech, All of the electronic instrument manufaturers do this not just Roland.
If you do not like do not buy it. Do more research before spending money and getting upset with Roland or any other manufaturer for not making a product the way you want it.
As far as making semi-pro gear and more economical products so are others, look at Korg.
Come on Roland is still offering top off the line products but they will cost. I think it is perfectly fine if a company makes products targeted to different markets.
I also believe Roland is on a Roll as far as where they have gone with AIRA and now the new JDs.
I would not be so pessimistic. I was tired of all the sample playback synths on the market for the past 10-15 years (from the big 3) now I think there is a genuine shift to move away from the standard Romples and I find it exciting.
Out of all the manufacturers where is Yamaha lately?
Yes Roland has released products with bugs but they have met most if not all that I can think of going back to the original D-series when you had to get new Eproms made/installed. Besides all companys I have ever dealt with have had bugs and firmware updates including others Moog, Novation
Roland has made some very solid equipment. Most of my rig is Roland so I can say so from experience. Roland has supported their products too.
When the Fantom X came out they later added the audio recording expansion.
The original V-Synth saw version 2 with improvements.
The jupiter-80 saw further improvements with its version 2 (my only gripe is there was no software editor/librarian but it was not promised.)
The Aira line saw updates I am not sure where you are coming from saying they make empty promises and lack support on all their gear.
That is simply NOT true.
As far re-cycling old tech, All of the electronic instrument manufaturers do this not just Roland.
If you do not like do not buy it. Do more research before spending money and getting upset with Roland or any other manufaturer for not making a product the way you want it.
As far as making semi-pro gear and more economical products so are others, look at Korg.
Come on Roland is still offering top off the line products but they will cost. I think it is perfectly fine if a company makes products targeted to different markets.
I also believe Roland is on a Roll as far as where they have gone with AIRA and now the new JDs.
I would not be so pessimistic. I was tired of all the sample playback synths on the market for the past 10-15 years (from the big 3) now I think there is a genuine shift to move away from the standard Romples and I find it exciting.
Out of all the manufacturers where is Yamaha lately?
Re: Has an era ended at Roland?
Roland suffered tremendous setback and lost a lot of revenue when they released the rehashed Fantom G instead of upgrading the X to something worth buying for those who had Fantom X's.
That financial loss from this sorta discombobulated their timely workstation release process to that of delayed productivity in comparison to Korg and Yamaha, so they streamlined their focus to legacy products that they know would have greater potential to sell based on past history and popularity. Now Roland is refocusing their production with limited investment capital. Roland know their next Workstation has to be a smash, otherwise we may have to say goodby to Roland synthesizer division, seriously.
So they are and have been in the background working on designing their should be best Workstation ever, if they expect to compete with Yamaha and Korg. The small synths they made are indications that they aren't dead. But expect Roland to debut their next workstation to be a great one. Or just another mid level synth symbolizing they gave up the flagship model due to low finances and defeated creativity.
But we know Roland has some of the best technology and innovative synth designers in the world, so it's not that they don't have great workstation designers, unless those of the past has been fired, but more of a finance investment issue. If they can borrow a loan or if another company can help them build a successor to the Fantom G, then they can rebound if they really take the time to create that ultimate workstation they should have made that would have generated capital a long time ago.
If Korg and Yamaha can build funky fresh workstations, Roland should be able too. If Roland builds, the buyers and customers will come. The issue, can or will Roland build that flagship workstation that we all they can and all want and need and desire to have?
That financial loss from this sorta discombobulated their timely workstation release process to that of delayed productivity in comparison to Korg and Yamaha, so they streamlined their focus to legacy products that they know would have greater potential to sell based on past history and popularity. Now Roland is refocusing their production with limited investment capital. Roland know their next Workstation has to be a smash, otherwise we may have to say goodby to Roland synthesizer division, seriously.
So they are and have been in the background working on designing their should be best Workstation ever, if they expect to compete with Yamaha and Korg. The small synths they made are indications that they aren't dead. But expect Roland to debut their next workstation to be a great one. Or just another mid level synth symbolizing they gave up the flagship model due to low finances and defeated creativity.
But we know Roland has some of the best technology and innovative synth designers in the world, so it's not that they don't have great workstation designers, unless those of the past has been fired, but more of a finance investment issue. If they can borrow a loan or if another company can help them build a successor to the Fantom G, then they can rebound if they really take the time to create that ultimate workstation they should have made that would have generated capital a long time ago.
If Korg and Yamaha can build funky fresh workstations, Roland should be able too. If Roland builds, the buyers and customers will come. The issue, can or will Roland build that flagship workstation that we all they can and all want and need and desire to have?
Re: Has an era ended at Roland?
At least every year at NAMM you can count on seeing a new Roland MIDI Saxophone. lol
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Synth Guru
- Posts: 134
- Joined: 19:43, 11 July 2015
- Contact:
Re: Has an era ended at Roland?
I just own two Roland products atm, The Roland JD-XA and the Aira TR-8. I read the corporate history on Wikipedia and was very impressed by the footprint that Roland has made in the music industry. I don't think it's an end of an era but what I will tell you is that I was highly disappointed by the cheap plastic exterior appearance of the JD-XA. The TR8, although also plastic it doesn't feel bad in terms of weight to plastic ratio.
The good thing is that I really dig the quality of the sounds that each of the two products produce and I'm really happy with them. With that being said a better quality product would have been much more appreciated. I wish that Roland would follow the high quality standards that the DSI line of products deliver in their instruments. Another corporation for Roland to emulate in quality is Moog.
Listen up to your customers Roland and pay attention!
The good thing is that I really dig the quality of the sounds that each of the two products produce and I'm really happy with them. With that being said a better quality product would have been much more appreciated. I wish that Roland would follow the high quality standards that the DSI line of products deliver in their instruments. Another corporation for Roland to emulate in quality is Moog.
Listen up to your customers Roland and pay attention!
Re: Has an era ended at Roland?
$$$$ rules, so it would be very difficult for all music equipment manufacturers to keep at the top (quality wise) all the time.Synth Guru wrote:I just own two Roland products atm, The Roland JD-XA and the Aira TR-8. I read the corporate history on Wikipedia and was very impressed by the footprint that Roland has made in the music industry. I don't think it's an end of an era but what I will tell you is that I was highly disappointed by the cheap plastic exterior appearance of the JD-XA. The TR8, although also plastic it doesn't feel bad in terms of weight to plastic ratio.
The good thing is that I really dig the quality of the sounds that each of the two products produce and I'm really happy with them. With that being said a better quality product would have been much more appreciated. I wish that Roland would follow the high quality standards that the DSI line of products deliver in their instruments. Another corporation for Roland to emulate in quality is Moog.
Listen up to your customers Roland and pay attention!
Yes, the considered big 3... they all suffer from the same exact issue, maybe what differentiates them is different approaches to respond to the capitalism crisis.
Yamaha just released a White XF and 4 mini Synths and called them reface... Nothing really new, but yet somewhat different :)
In the middle of all this, they are struggling to survive and we as consumers keep the faith that they will listen to our desires...
Maybe they will do one day
Re: Has an era ended at Roland?
Do not agree products are more cheap build than before. It just depends which products you compare, it may vary a lot from one to the other. I own a D-10 from 25 years ago (that wasn't cheap for a poor chap !), an Integra 7 (great addition to the D-10 sounds after 25 years picking up music again), and a TR-8 (right in time to get TR-808 sounds at home) and all consider to have a solid build quality. What I do believe is "cheap" and/or what was in the "old era" but is not anymore:
[1] Leaving out valuable functionality which should not cost much to integrate: Sysex (TR-8) to load/restore patches/sequences and CC (e.g.Boutique) while processing power should be more than sufficient.
[2] Lack of educating customers who are new to music instruments (compare a TR-8 with TR-808 manual for example or the old system 100/101 manuals with the System 1/1m how to create sounds )
TR-8 and System 1 can hardly be classified as "manuals". Even worse, after updates, the manuals are not updated. Roland could also convince consumers better of the performance of new products by providing video's, sound samples, in depth "how to" articles and comparing the sound of legacy with newer products (JP-08 versus Jupiter 8) etc..
[3] Ergonomic issues - Shrinking the product so that using them becomes not ergonomic (Boutique size and Boutique/System 1 keyboard size quality) feels not as a professional / serious sound design product. The JD-XA hard to read text and the glossy, easy to get fingerprints, material of the panel.
[4] Lost opportunities to support products better (free editors e.g TR-8, TR-3 etc.. , VST-2 support (Integra plug-in only VST-3) or add functions that customers ask for (TR8 CR-68 sounds, maybe other functions)
[5] Follow trends. E.g Yamaha will create a portal for users to share patches for the Reface Line. This is great idea for the sound design and musicians, Publicly accessible patch website are a hard find nowadays.
These above are "delighters"for consumers and can attract new customer .
Roland should understand the Kano model but apparently forgot about this, from origin, Japanese theory.
[6] Refrain from Business model consumers don't really like. Razor and blade pricing model for TR-8/ System 1 hardware/plug-outs/updates. Just please leave that model to printers and razor manufacturers.
[7] Perhaps lack to commit the legacy user base to real true analog.(Except JD-XA/Xi, integrate in other products) but not as standalone true analog product
[8]. Perhaps recycling too much technology (ACB) across different segments which get's (new) consumers confused.
[1] Leaving out valuable functionality which should not cost much to integrate: Sysex (TR-8) to load/restore patches/sequences and CC (e.g.Boutique) while processing power should be more than sufficient.
[2] Lack of educating customers who are new to music instruments (compare a TR-8 with TR-808 manual for example or the old system 100/101 manuals with the System 1/1m how to create sounds )
TR-8 and System 1 can hardly be classified as "manuals". Even worse, after updates, the manuals are not updated. Roland could also convince consumers better of the performance of new products by providing video's, sound samples, in depth "how to" articles and comparing the sound of legacy with newer products (JP-08 versus Jupiter 8) etc..
[3] Ergonomic issues - Shrinking the product so that using them becomes not ergonomic (Boutique size and Boutique/System 1 keyboard size quality) feels not as a professional / serious sound design product. The JD-XA hard to read text and the glossy, easy to get fingerprints, material of the panel.
[4] Lost opportunities to support products better (free editors e.g TR-8, TR-3 etc.. , VST-2 support (Integra plug-in only VST-3) or add functions that customers ask for (TR8 CR-68 sounds, maybe other functions)
[5] Follow trends. E.g Yamaha will create a portal for users to share patches for the Reface Line. This is great idea for the sound design and musicians, Publicly accessible patch website are a hard find nowadays.
These above are "delighters"for consumers and can attract new customer .
Roland should understand the Kano model but apparently forgot about this, from origin, Japanese theory.
[6] Refrain from Business model consumers don't really like. Razor and blade pricing model for TR-8/ System 1 hardware/plug-outs/updates. Just please leave that model to printers and razor manufacturers.
[7] Perhaps lack to commit the legacy user base to real true analog.(Except JD-XA/Xi, integrate in other products) but not as standalone true analog product
[8]. Perhaps recycling too much technology (ACB) across different segments which get's (new) consumers confused.
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SoundworldA.D.
- Posts: 744
- Joined: 22:09, 30 April 2009
- Location: Dallas, TX
- Contact:
Re: Has an era ended at Roland?
What a juicy thread...great posts by all!
To be sure, era's come and go, and while we who have been at this for a while have had the luxury and the sheer joy of experiencing some of the most beautiful sounding and thought provoking analog and digital synth's ever produced over the years, today's market driven music OEM's unfortunately have to tap their toes to the beat of the profit king.
I went to Guitar Center yesterday to buy a nanoPad 2 and while I was there stopped by and saw some of the AIRA products. All of the lights and dials and such were so delightful! Cheap? I guess. While I decided not to dive into the new Roland lines (expecting a baby may have had something to do with that!), they no doubt meet the needs of the market segment for today's music.
Let's not forget that just in the last 10 years has seen the release of remarkable synthesizers like the OASYS, the V-Synth's and the Jupiter 80/50. If it is heavy duty that you are after, these great synth's are still out there and available for much cheaper than when they first came out.
I recently bought a Korg Kronos 2, and while I love the sounds on it, playing the synth action keyboard on that compared to the OASYS or the Jupe-80 is just painful!
I understand that to produce these new synth's at price points for the masses means corners have to be cut, and maybe the "era" that we are in and the ones that follow may prove that we musicians just had a "golden age" that may never again be repeated.
At the end of the day (yes, it's time for the Doogenator's old oft repeated mantra again!) for me it's all about the music. I still have my D-70, 01R/W and Wavestation SR and listening to those sounds not only takes me back to the early 1990's, they STILL sound great and I still regularly use them!
Long ago, I had a Yamaha TG-33. The thing basically looked like a toy or a video game console, but I had no time to worry about that...it was a true vector/wavesequencing sound machine and I could get lost just playing around with the sounds and having a blast.
Bottom line? I think it's best to keep our expectations low or at least a bit lower these days because if not, we're sure to be disappointed. I would have absolutely loved an editor/librarian for the JP-80 but I did not and will not lose any sleep if one never comes. Every time I play and edit sounds on that beast and a big smile comes on my face is the reason why.
To be sure, era's come and go, and while we who have been at this for a while have had the luxury and the sheer joy of experiencing some of the most beautiful sounding and thought provoking analog and digital synth's ever produced over the years, today's market driven music OEM's unfortunately have to tap their toes to the beat of the profit king.
I went to Guitar Center yesterday to buy a nanoPad 2 and while I was there stopped by and saw some of the AIRA products. All of the lights and dials and such were so delightful! Cheap? I guess. While I decided not to dive into the new Roland lines (expecting a baby may have had something to do with that!), they no doubt meet the needs of the market segment for today's music.
Let's not forget that just in the last 10 years has seen the release of remarkable synthesizers like the OASYS, the V-Synth's and the Jupiter 80/50. If it is heavy duty that you are after, these great synth's are still out there and available for much cheaper than when they first came out.
I recently bought a Korg Kronos 2, and while I love the sounds on it, playing the synth action keyboard on that compared to the OASYS or the Jupe-80 is just painful!
I understand that to produce these new synth's at price points for the masses means corners have to be cut, and maybe the "era" that we are in and the ones that follow may prove that we musicians just had a "golden age" that may never again be repeated.
At the end of the day (yes, it's time for the Doogenator's old oft repeated mantra again!) for me it's all about the music. I still have my D-70, 01R/W and Wavestation SR and listening to those sounds not only takes me back to the early 1990's, they STILL sound great and I still regularly use them!
Long ago, I had a Yamaha TG-33. The thing basically looked like a toy or a video game console, but I had no time to worry about that...it was a true vector/wavesequencing sound machine and I could get lost just playing around with the sounds and having a blast.
Bottom line? I think it's best to keep our expectations low or at least a bit lower these days because if not, we're sure to be disappointed. I would have absolutely loved an editor/librarian for the JP-80 but I did not and will not lose any sleep if one never comes. Every time I play and edit sounds on that beast and a big smile comes on my face is the reason why.