New Yamaha Montage Dual engine Synth.

[windsmuse]

Looks like Yamaha has made a jump into dual engine synth designs with their new Montage previewing at next week NAMM. As per Yamaha: Motion Control Synthesis Engine unifies and controls two iconic Sound Engines: AWM2 (high-quality waveform and subtractive synthesis) and FM-X (modern, pure Frequency Modulation synthesis.) These two engines can be freely zoned or layered across eight parts in a single MONTAGE Performance. Interact with MONTAGE Performances using Motion Control: a highly programmable control matrix for creating deep, dynamic and incredibly expressive sound. With Motion Control, you can create new sounds not possible on previous hardware synthesizers.

http://www.musiker-board.de/threads/yam ... st-7767097

[Tom_1970]

I think an 8-operator FM engine is exciting news.

[Coorec]

JD-XA and Montage seem to compliment eachother nicely.

With the 2 boards one gets Analog, VA, FM and Rompler synthesises.

Whilst XA excells at crossing the VA/rompler part over to the analog side, Montage has expandable sample space.

Quite nice combination indeed.

[horisonten]

SSS (Seamless Sound Switching)


Seamless Sound Switching (SSS) lets you change performances seamlessly without any cut-off in envelope or effects. This is perfect for live performances where you end one song and start another without stopping.

This is something i miss on the JD-XA. It sure would be nice to switch programs without cutting of the sound and effects.

[Redrain68]

Impossible to do with the analog part...

[kimsnarf]

It is interesting to compare this to the Jupiter-80. The Montage Super Knob appears similar in purpose to the JP-80 Tone Blender. The JP-80 has 256 voices as opposed to 128 + 128 (separate voices for FM). So the JP-80 appears to have the layering advantage. The JP-80 has Virtual Analog while the Montage has FM. Both synths excel at acoustic and pads. The Montage's main advantage is the Motion Control and arpeggiators, which is more into arranger territory, and not for everyone.

The Montage has 16 parts, but for a similar price to this synth alone one can now buy the Jupiter-80 plus the Integra-7 and get the same 16 parts + 128 voices, in addition to the JP-80's 4 parts and 256 voices. To me that appears very competitive. Roland should start selling these as a bundle.

[flyingace]

Love all that you said Kimsnarf! Now if we can just get Roland to continue to invest in the already superior in so many ways Jupiter 80 (for a live synth) and fulfill it's destiny. We need better sound management, I don't care about a workstation or sequencer!

[flyingace]

PLUS, I'm using Ableton Live for my "workstation" needs, why would I want to learn another system and deal with small screens and little buttons again? The future isn't arrangers or workstations, it's performance, flexible custom set ups of the interface and PC support!

[muziksculp]

Hi,

Given that the Yamaha Montage will be out by May this year, what are the chances that Roland will surprise us with a new heavy weight Synth to compete with the Montage by May, or during Summer 2016 ?

Thanks,
Muziksculp

[Devnor]

The differences between tone blender & super knob is tone blender destinations are fixed. The super knob is freely assignable. The super knob can control many more destinations than the Jupiter. To say the "Montage's main advantage is the Motion Control and arpeggiators, which is more into arranger territory" is really missing the point entirely. Motion control is a way to manipulate sound and arpeggiators really have nothing in common with how an arranger is designed to work.

FM-X can be a VA synth since it can generate classic waveforms which are then filtered thru Yamaha's excellent filters and EFX including all the virtual component modeling FX stompboxes. I have enjoyed using the Jupiter's VA for the last 4.5 years but there is just too much aliasing going on in the higher ranges with all the JU80 VA waveforms - not just the alt PWM wave. I guess I'm tired of the same old workarounds and I want something newer.

I'm getting Montage 7. There is alot of very cool stuff happening and some unique things like FM-X and motion control. A huge advantage is the ability to use my Motif XF voices and sample sets in Montage. IMO there is not much overlap between the Jupiter and Montage which should make for a nice pairing of synths!

[kimsnarf]

I can of course only speak for myself. The Jupiter-80 was my first real synth. I had been on the fence a couple of years first, mainly debating whether to go for a Motif. But I was put off by the (seemingly) non-intuitive interface, the lack of synth engine controls, the price, and the value loss when new models were introduced. When I discovered the Jupiter-80 it had all I was looking for and was cheaper than a (latest generation) Motif too, and would likely keep its value longer (so far it has).

At first I thought the Motif arpeggiators were great, and I was even more awe-struck when I first heard the Tyros comps, but then I realised that I would much rather play myself than toy with someone else's arrangement. Yes, there is a difference between arpeggiators and arrangers, but the Motif arps are closer to an arranger (at least to me) than to a traditional, simple synth arp. The arps are marketed as "jamming along" rather than just adding simple motion.

The Montage, I assume, has Motif style arps (which is overkill for me). And the Tone Blender, while fixed, serves the same general purpose as the Montage Super Knob (which is overkill for me). As for FM, I find it much harder to understand (and control) than subtractive synthesis, so it is not really something I want to spend much effort on. Besides, I can get very good FM-like sounds from my DSI synths, and I find them easier to work with (than FM). So the Montage, while very cool, isn't really doing a lot for me. If I was buying my first synth now, I might get pulled towards the new and shiny, but then again, I might go for a used Jupiter-80.

But, of course, this is only my view. Instead of a Montage I have pre-ordered a DSI OB-6. The Jupiter-80 covers all my performance/acoustic/layering needs, so I'm instead going for synths with excellent interfaces for building/tweaking my own analog (non-aliasing) sounds. I have learned that I enjoy that more than hunting through large libraries of pre-made sounds (not speaking of the Montage, but the modern sample-based approach).

[gridpower]

The differences between tone blender & super knob is tone blender destinations are fixed. The super knob is freely assignable. The super knob can control many more destinations than the Jupiter. To say the "Montage's main advantage is the Motion Control and arpeggiators, which is more into arranger territory" is really missing the point entirely. Motion control is a way to manipulate sound and arpeggiators really have nothing in common with how an arranger is designed to work.

FM-X can be a VA synth since it can generate classic waveforms which are then filtered thru Yamaha's excellent filters and EFX including all the virtual component modeling FX stompboxes. I have enjoyed using the Jupiter's VA for the last 4.5 years but there is just too much aliasing going on in the higher ranges with all the JU80 VA waveforms - not just the alt PWM wave. I guess I'm tired of the same old workarounds and I want something newer.

I'm getting Montage 7. There is alot of very cool stuff happening and some unique things like FM-X and motion control. A huge advantage is the ability to use my Motif XF voices and sample sets in Montage. IMO there is not much overlap between the Jupiter and Montage which should make for a nice pairing of synths!

I placed an order for the Montage 7 today as well. Looking very forward to working with the FM and also having the 1.75GB of FLASH Sample RAM will be huge for bringing in my field recordings for sound mangling.

My biggest concern is that I don't have enough room for the M7 and JP-80 in my current studio space. The keybed of the JP-80 is so sweet and I hate to give that up. Not sure how good the FSX keybed feels in comparison. I agree with you that the aliasing is really annoying in the JP-80 and it prevents me from really opening up the filters when playing in the upper register. However the JP-80 has some of the sweetest sounding deep end when played in the lower registers. I may end up getting an Integra if my studio space prevents having both of those behemoths in my studio..

[Devnor]

The FSX keyboard is very nice.

[MacTyros]

Montage is a performance synth... its much like the concept of the jp80 that was not understood by many...

I am very much interested to see where this leads us... After Roland, Yamaha is also stepping away from high end workstations..

[Devnor]

Montage is a performance synth...

I would disagree with this. Montage can output over 16 audio streams over USB into a DAW. Basically you can have a multi part performance and capture the whole thing in one or maybe 2 passes (its unclear if these are stereo streams I doubt it). For example if you have a Jupiter and you have 4 different parts playing (upper, lower, solo, perc) to bring those parts into the DAW would require 4 different recording passes requiring different settings for each. The reason is Jupiter's USB is a 2 channel USB interface. Its the same with most other synths including the Kronos & Motif XF (unless you use the FW16 option). Integra 7 has 8 analog otputs which makes this task easier assuming your audio interface supports 8 input (im unclear about the capabilities of the USB connection). Kronos has 4 analog outputs but only a 2 ch USB so if you could live with another D/A conversion you could record 16 parts in 4 passes (same as the Jupiter) yet still requiring different settings for each pass. Setting this stuff up takes a lot of time.

No other synth has this kind of robust USB interface. So no fully featured sequencer, the reason why people are calling it a performance synth but the DAW integration is best of any hardware synth. Perfect for the studio? I think so.