Did Roland just D-day us all?

[apex]

Unlike the Kronos, this really is a game changer!

not sure what this is supposed to mean....

That was the phrase Korg used when launching the Kronos in 2011. But of course, it was just a cheap knock off of a superior instrument, the OASYS.

This Fantom is entirely re-thought and the biggest thing that relates it to its predecessor is the name!

cheap knockoff is a negative way to say it became affordable. the oasys should have never been the price it was.

we will see how long the excitement holds up for the fantom...

#howsoonweforget .... better remember what they did to you all with the fantom g. lol

all in all I think the new fantom is great, but it's still not better than the Kronos.

I dont even see major improvements in any area other than the sequencer and the daw integration.. everything else seems repackaged in some way shape or form.

[apex]

hilarious to me that a new flagship board comes out and folks want to immediately load samples into it vs digging into all the hundreds and thousands of onboarding sounds...

they are worried about samples and expansions and using old sounds from previous generations...

why buy a new board if that's the goal?

Everybody wants and requires different things out of a workstation. I could also find it just as hilarious that you wouldn't at some point want to expand your workstations sounds or want to dump multisamples within it. Everybody is intiltled to their own opinion and voice it. I'm sure the new Fantom is great, but theres a few things missing. That's just my opinion.

I never said I wouldn't want to... but only if necessary and needed. its retarded. you don't have to agree with me.

jumping out the gate talking about expanding sounds when they haven't even explored what is in there already... and the fact of being able to program stuff... smh.
that's why I'll always say... the hobby market drives the sales of these keyboards. not pro guys. the hobby guys have no real clue and do exactly that buy a brand new keyboard and load sounds from 20 years ago. lol


that's facts.

[Fourfiftyfour]

Unlike the Kronos, this really is a game changer!

not sure what this is supposed to mean....

That was the phrase Korg used when launching the Kronos in 2011. But of course, it was just a cheap knock off of a superior instrument, the OASYS.

This Fantom is entirely re-thought and the biggest thing that relates it to its predecessor is the name!

I don't know about that. I'm a die hard Korg fan just as much as I'm a Roland Fan. With Korg with each Flagship they carry on the ideas of the older boards. The Kronos is pretty much the Evolution of every Keyboard that came before it. Sometimes I look at it and I see stuff from the Trinity, and the Triton, and the Karma, the Z1, the M3,the OASYS etc. etc. It's all really streamlined down into the Kronos.

[Fourfiftyfour]

hilarious to me that a new flagship board comes out and folks want to immediately load samples into it vs digging into all the hundreds and thousands of onboarding sounds...

they are worried about samples and expansions and using old sounds from previous generations...

why buy a new board if that's the goal?

Everybody wants and requires different things out of a workstation. I could also find it just as hilarious that you wouldn't at some point want to expand your workstations sounds or want to dump multisamples within it. Everybody is intiltled to their own opinion and voice it. I'm sure the new Fantom is great, but theres a few things missing. That's just my opinion.

I remember back during World War 3 Alesis, Ensoniq, Korg, Yamaha and Roland were all battling it out to be the one true Keyboard maker. It was a glorious but dangerous time that left many casualties when the war ended.What I remember from those time is that it was the little features that made certain keyboards stand out like "multi-sampling" & "Expansion boards" that would mean life or death for a keyboard. I still have nightmares of the day I went to Guitar Center and held their last ASR-10 in my arms as it bled out. I said "Don't worry the world still needs you" and I'll never forget what it whispered to me as its LED flickered before going out forever it whispered to me "Workstations can sample now". If only that ASR-10 could have lived to see the future it would have known that it was still needed in this world.

[Ivan Jochner]

hilarious to me that a new flagship board comes out and folks want to immediately load samples into it vs digging into all the hundreds and thousands of onboarding sounds...

they are worried about samples and expansions and using old sounds from previous generations...

why buy a new board if that's the goal?

From the past experience(imho) acoustic sounds were not as good as expected. For example Integra 7 acclaimed their Supernatural stuff but listen to those Sax and Shakuhachi from Integra , no way they were sounded right. Listening to Roland Grand Pianos (glassy and cold) in compassing with Nord Stage 2, Clavia here wins at least for me.

( New demos of Fantom show the same Supernatural modelling sound)

The biggest strengths of Roland - SYNTH section. But even though in modern day music we heavily need samples which can not produce even Roland.

[mojkarma]

hilarious to me that a new flagship board comes out and folks want to immediately load samples into it vs digging into all the hundreds and thousands of onboarding sounds...

The new Fantom is also meant to be played live, on stage. That's why it has a set list mode and seamless switching, stuff you absolutely don't need in the studio or while sequencing. Is it difficult to imagine that a live player would want to load the famous shakuhachi sample to play Peter Gabriels Sledgehammer? Is is so difficult to imagine and understand that a live player from Far East, South America, Africa, Asia, you name it, would want to load some multisample from an instrument which is not covered by the factory ROM but is important and necessary for his/her local music?
I find it hilarious how people struggle to understand such easy things. Digging into all the billions of onboard sounds will simply not help you in any of the few examples I gave you above.

they are worried about samples and expansions and using old sounds from previous generations...

In case you missed it: the new Fantom contains samples from older models, all the way back to the XV/Fantom engine which is now almost 20 years old. And the VA sounds are based on the SN synth. So, the question could also be: why would you buy the new Fantom in first place if it doesn't contain any new sampled material and all the sounds are actually from other prereleased models?

why buy a new board if that's the goal?

Because your old keyboard shows its age, you want something newer, better (you, the user, define what better means to you), more powerful, because you simply have money.

Just my 2cents:
Everybody should remember how it ended when Roland released their first Fantom (Fa-76)! Within a year or so they abandoned it and replaced it with the Fantom-S. Now, guess what the S in the name stands for and ask yourself, why did they replace the original Fantom so soon?
I remember, people were equally vocal when the Fantom G was released without the ability to load multisamples and Roland offered a quick update. And know they make the same mistake for the third time! While at the same time they offer multisampling their beginners, low budget, entry level model: Juno DS.

That's what I would call hilarious.

[Synthtron]

I bet they will add multi-sampling in an update just like they did their beginners, low budget, entry level Juno-DS.

[Devnor]

The new Fantom is also meant to be played live, on stage. That's why it has a set list mode and seamless switching, stuff you absolutely don't need in the studio or while sequencing. Is it difficult to imagine that a live player would want to load the famous shakuhachi sample to play Peter Gabriels Sledgehammer?

Fantom doesn't have a set list mode. We have scenes and what this really means to the user has yet to be revealed. No, to characterize Fantom as live board half baked really misses the intention. I intend to use in the studio and there's lots of new features...3 seq modes, the clip player, the ability to remix songs on the fly. All powerful composition tools then there's CV/gate and DAW integration. Seamless switching is something I've loved about the Kronos and the ability for sounds to flow together, played live, in a studio.

[quote="mojokarma]In case you missed it: the new Fantom contains samples from older models, all the way back to the XV/Fantom engine which is now almost 20 years old.[/quote]

Alot of users are concerned Fantom doesnt contain everything PCM. There is demand for that old stuff.

And the VA sounds are based on the SN synth

What does this even mean? There are sounds of Jupiters, TB303, ect in there or are you saying it's the SNS synth? Clearly, its not. There's the LFO upgrades and second LFO. You can route aftertouch to vibrato now. I know, big deal. Its something missing from SNS and I'm glad to see it added to the new model.

[cello]

… Fantom doesn't have a set list mode...

Correct but also incorrect! It has something that can be used as a setlist.

The Chain (button) function. You simply press the pedal (sound remain) and then tap the next scene in the chain :)

There are up to 32 chains which each can have 16 scenes, in your desired order - you can cut and paste to re-order them. So you could save a chain as "Hotel 1 - first half" then another one "Hotel 1 - second half", etc.

Also you can save memos against each scene - which could be Z1 - guitar, Z2 0 piano, Z3 - strings etc.

Ergo giving you all the functions you would need to have for a gig set list management.

[mojkarma]

@Devnor
Please read my post in the context I wrote it as an answer to apex.

Scenes is the new name for the equivalent of the performance on earlier Fantoms or registration on the Jupiter-80. But the way they are graphically presented on the screen is the same as on the Kronos or the Montage/MoDX. Kronos and Montage call it Setlist. What this means to the user IS already revealed if you watched the youtube clips and took a look into the manuals. Let's avoid needles fights about naming conventions, instead of looking what it actually does. You have videos and you have the manuals available to watch and read. I watch and read before I make my statements.

What does this even mean? There are sounds of Jupiters, TB303, ect in there or are you saying it's the SNS synth? Clearly, its not. There's the LFO upgrades and second LFO. You can route aftertouch to vibrato now. I know, big deal. Its something missing from SNS and I'm glad to see it added to the new model.

Again: I have not the slightest idea why are unable to understand my answer in the context of what apex wrote, especially since I quoted him.
He said: "they are worried about samples and expansions and using old sounds from previous generations."

To this I answered how the new Fantom is obviously based on already existing sound material, be it samples or the VA which is based on the SNS. And NO, just because you can (finally) route aftertouch to vibrato, doesn't mean that we have here a completely new sound engine, never heard before. On the acoustic part the new Fantom is - at least in my very personal opinion - a clear and big step back. They abandoned all the acoustic sounds from the SN engine which they praised before and implemented in the Jupiter 80 and Integra. Now they are back to the old simple sample playback engine, selling you the old samples again. LFO upgrades and better routing abilities can't compensate for this.

[Devnor]

Mojokarma I guess you just want to argue, that's fine. If you can't see how scenes in Fantom differs from a Kronos setlist I can't help you. You seem to think the VA synth is the same as the Jupiters. IDK, instead of lecturing others about reading why not look at the ZenCore synth parameters. There's alot there not in my Jupiter. Finally, you can stop crying about SN-A. Ed Diaz said its coming to Fantom.

[Stormchild]

That MC-707 has me confused as a TR8S owner. Like what is the point of owning a TR8S anymore when the MC-707 does the same but better?

The TR-8S has ACB emulations of the 606, 707, 727, 808, and 909. The MC-707 doesn’t do ACB. If you want a drum machine that’s just a drum machine and has the best quality emulations of the classics, the TR-8S is still a better choice.

The MC-707 (and the baby 101) does look pretty fun though.

[Devnor]

Fantom isn't a sampler in the classic sense and never will be. Think about this for a moment. It has 1.75GB memory. If you load that up with some old MKS20 piano samples you won't have any space to use the loop features. The kronos has 30Gb SSD about 17X the size of fantom memory and by most accounts, it's too small. Montage flash memory will only hold a few instruments. The Chick Corea EP is 500Mb+ If sampling is that important to your gig you either add a sampler to your fantom or move on to something else.

[Fourfiftyfour]

That MC-707 has me confused as a TR8S owner. Like what is the point of owning a TR8S anymore when the MC-707 does the same but better?

The TR-8S has ACB emulations of the 606, 707, 727, 808, and 909. The MC-707 doesn’t do ACB. If you want a drum machine that’s just a drum machine and has the best quality emulations of the classics, the TR-8S is still a better choice.

The MC-707 (and the baby 101) does look pretty fun though.

That's cool thanks for the insight. The TR8S always makes me feel like "You can do whatever you want just so long as it's within 16 steps".

[Ivan Jochner]

The truth is Roland Fantom DOES NOT support multi sampling.

We can not load samples to create our sounds and play via keyboard.