J80 Price - Ouch!

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Quinnx.
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Re: J80 Price - Ouch!

Post by Quinnx. »

I would never preorder this thing without studying painstakingly the manual.
Be careful of that..
Roland manuals are notorious for being light on specifics and vague on everything else.
You will have to read between the lines and don't assume anything.
2TIM316
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Re: J80 Price - Ouch!

Post by 2TIM316 »

Wow, I feel like a VIP. This thread I started a while ago is still near the top of the list w/ over 100 replies. Anyway I'm still interested in the Jup. I can handle the synth keyboard if it feels solid. Definitely gonna want to hear how it does piano, Rhodes & strings. Ya know, the basics. From the brochure it looks like it may be absolutely capable of those. Maybe these acoustic sounds were played down as they emphasize the "synthiness" of it. Like every other instrument, including Kronos, I don't care how many videos, MP3s, hype and whatever else they put out, my decision will only come after a hands-on playing session. And from much past experience it's amazing how 2-3 minutes on a new instrument can wipe out hours of mental obsessing pre-release. I wish both Jup & Kronos luck.
mojkarma
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Re: J80 Price - Ouch!

Post by mojkarma »

2TIM316 wrote:And from much past experience it's amazing how 2-3 minutes on a new instrument can wipe out hours of mental obsessing pre-release. I wish both Jup & Kronos luck.
That's true. And I'm not talking against the JP80, I'm just trying to point out that it's equally important that everybody knows how he want to use the instrument and which features he considers as being important. The way how those features are implemented makes the difference whether you'll enjoy the keyboard or be frustrated every time you have to work on it.
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Quinnx.
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Re: J80 Price - Ouch!

Post by Quinnx. »

for me the killer is the price and what your getting for it..
you pay 3000 bucks and you get no more but less than whats on offer in the G.
If i did not own a G and only had an X its still too much.
lets break it down the bare basics..
take a way the supernatural thing for a moment
what makes it better than the G which has much more power and potential in soundscapes and as a production tool.
maybe if it was $1500 i could see it as an addition to the G and even then I would be in no hurry to get one and i certainly would not rush out to spend over $3000 even if i did not own a G.
there are just too many better choices out there for that amount of money that i dont see the lust for such a closed architecture.
Mystic38
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Re: J80 Price - Ouch!

Post by Mystic38 »

The jp80 is not designed to be a production tool...it is not stated, advertised promoted or mentioned as such. So that's a pointless comparison.... Might as well complain that the jp80 can't make tea and tell jokes.

Equally pointless is saying "take the supernatural away and what do you have"... Take the engine out of any synth and there is not much left :)..but incidentally you are still left with a VA synth...which the Fantom is not.

If you do not agree that live play boards with great sound cost premium money then move on.. Its a fact of life that they do.. But Don't buy it and simply move on, but stop ranting over something that you have neither heard nor played.


Quinnx. wrote:for me the killer is the price and what your getting for it..
you pay 3000 bucks and you get no more but less than whats on offer in the G.
If i did not own a G and only had an X its still too much.
lets break it down the bare basics..
take a way the supernatural thing for a moment
what makes it better than the G which has much more power and potential in soundscapes and as a production tool.
maybe if it was $1500 i could see it as an addition to the G and even then I would be in no hurry to get one and i certainly would not rush out to spend over $3000 even if i did not own a G.
there are just too many better choices out there for that amount of money that i dont see the lust for such a closed architecture.
Devnor
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Re: J80 Price - Ouch!

Post by Devnor »

Great post Mystic.
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delirium
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Re: J80 Price - Ouch!

Post by delirium »

yeah, I'd rather buy kronos then jupiter if I have to spend 3500$.
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PauloF
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Re: J80 Price - Ouch!

Post by PauloF »

delirium wrote:yeah, I'd rather buy kronos then jupiter if I have to spend 3500$.
If it was me, that would depend on what I would need it for.

People keep comparing these two boards like if they were direct competitors...
Comparing an Oasys derived workstation with a performance oriented synth doesn't seem to be logical.
They serve two different purposes, but again can be good complements not one or the other.

But all depends of one is up to regarding his/her music... And provided there is money for it/them :-)
mojkarma
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Re: J80 Price - Ouch!

Post by mojkarma »

PauloF wrote: Comparing an Oasys derived workstation with a performance oriented synth doesn't seem to be logical.
They serve two different purposes, but again can be good complements not one or the other.
In fact, the comparison is perfectly logical and doable.
As we all know, workstations are workstations just because of the built in sequencer. If you don't need it, don't use it. The rest is perfectly comparable to a "performance" oriented keyboard.
Since the first widely affordable workstation (the M1), people have used them on stage (=performance) for decades. Take the M1, the 01/W, the Trinity, Triton, Oasys (Jordan Rudess to name just one), Motifs, Kurzweil Kxxx-Series even Fantoms (they are all workstations), ...
What makes a keyboard a (good) performance keyboard?
1. Sounds
2. Effects
3. Multitimbral use (splitting, layering a couple of patches)

All this you will find in every single workstation keyboard out there. Korg doesn't produce special performance keyboard at all, with the exception of sam small cheap models. If people would be so focused on some vague terminology, we wouldn't see Korg at all on stages.
Mystic38
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Re: J80 Price - Ouch!

Post by Mystic38 »

Korg has the SV1 which serves no purpose other than a stage performance board....

Workstations required WORK.. Performance keyboards are simpler to setup and use and, particularly in the case of the Kronos, do not require a doctoral thesis or 5 years of study to get the best out of them.. If you wish to muck about menu diving for months on end, by all means get a Kronos.. The JP80 is for folks to go out and play...This is a big deal to folks who want to play, rather than get enamored with the technology for it's own sake..

Yet again..this is a pointless comparison..the v-synth is similar money and got lots of respect..why?.. BECAUSE IT SOUNDS GOOD...

Be objective..Wait until you play the JP80 then come back and say why you think it sounds like poop :)
mojkarma wrote:
PauloF wrote: Comparing an Oasys derived workstation with a performance oriented synth doesn't seem to be logical.
They serve two different purposes, but again can be good complements not one or the other.
In fact, the comparison is perfectly logical and doable.
As we all know, workstations are workstations just because of the built in sequencer. If you don't need it, don't use it. The rest is perfectly comparable to a "performance" oriented keyboard.
Since the first widely affordable workstation (the M1), people have used them on stage (=performance) for decades. Take the M1, the 01/W, the Trinity, Triton, Oasys (Jordan Rudess to name just one), Motifs, Kurzweil Kxxx-Series even Fantoms (they are all workstations), ...
What makes a keyboard a (good) performance keyboard?
1. Sounds
2. Effects
3. Multitimbral use (splitting, layering a couple of patches)

All this you will find in every single workstation keyboard out there. Korg doesn't produce special performance keyboard at all, with the exception of sam small cheap models. If people would be so focused on some vague terminology, we wouldn't see Korg at all on stages.
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delirium
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Re: J80 Price - Ouch!

Post by delirium »

mojkarma wrote: In fact, the comparison is perfectly logical and doable.
As we all know, workstations are workstations just because of the built in sequencer. If you don't need it, don't use it. The rest is perfectly comparable to a "performance" oriented keyboard.
Since the first widely affordable workstation (the M1), people have used them on stage (=performance) for decades. Take the M1, the 01/W, the Trinity, Triton, Oasys (Jordan Rudess to name just one), Motifs, Kurzweil Kxxx-Series even Fantoms (they are all workstations), ...
What makes a keyboard a (good) performance keyboard?
1. Sounds
2. Effects
3. Multitimbral use (splitting, layering a couple of patches)

All this you will find in every single workstation keyboard out there. Korg doesn't produce special performance keyboard at all, with the exception of sam small cheap models. If people would be so focused on some vague terminology, we wouldn't see Korg at all on stages.
completely agreed - sequencer feature in keyboard will soon be obsolete anyway. You better off buying stand alone sequencer or computer based with good IO box. All we really need from keyboard these days is great touch meaning keybed and great sound banks with logical and easy accessible interface. Taking all that into account jupiter-80 should cost not more then 1800$. Well, roland prices were always abstract and unrealistic.
mojkarma
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Re: J80 Price - Ouch!

Post by mojkarma »

Mystic38 wrote:Korg has the SV1 which serves no purpose other than a stage performance board....
Yes, with 3 different sounds and no split possibilities.
Mystic38 wrote:Workstations required WORK.. Performance keyboards are simpler to setup and use and, particularly in the case of the Kronos, do not require a doctoral thesis or 5 years of study to get the best out of them..
Mystic38, seriously, you don't need to post here every nonsense that comes out of your head. The Kronos has basically the same structure as a M1. Unlike some other companies (especially Roland), Korg was always very consistent with their OS. Of course, working with some of the VA models or with the FM synthesis requires some knowledge about how this synthesis functions, but nobody forces you to do deep programming if you don't want to. Just use the sounds as they are. If that's to complicated for you, try playing something else. A banjo or a flute. There are options.

Mystic38 wrote:If you wish to muck about menu diving for months on end, by all means get a Kronos.. The JP80 is for folks to go out and play...This is a big deal to folks who want to play, rather than get enamored with the technology for it's own sake..
Again, stop this crappy posts you make. It's so clear that you absolutely have no clue how people play live, how they perform, what some of them need and how they build their live setups on a keyboard.
The JP80 is not a stage piano for gods sake. It's a synthesizer and it has a complex structure, starting with a registration, going over with percussion, live set 1, live set 2, solo and ending somewhere at the tone level which again consists of three partials.
Do you really think that people will buy a JP80 just to play some preprogrammed patches? If that's the case, Roland should have put a small tiny and cheap display on that thing and make it at least a little cheaper, instead of using a more costly color touch display. What is that good for if you think that people will put the JP80 right as it is on the stage without further programming and accommodating to their own needs.
Mystic38 wrote: Be objective..Wait until you play the JP80 then come back and say why you think it sounds like poop :)
Since you don't read my posts or at least are unable to understand them, I'll gladly repeat some points for you:
I'm not defending the Kronos particularly here. I'm just saying that there is not such a big difference from a live performing aspect that those two keyboards couldn't be compared. Also, I never said that I don't like how the JP80 sounds. It is just, that unlike you, I'm not a fanboy and I try to see the bigger point on every keyboard.
If you don't understand what I mean, please, be so kind and try to explain to me on a general level, how to split five different patches on the JP80? The structure of the keyboard is known, so you should be able to answer me. Some here say that the JP80 is for the professional and not for some bedroom studio kiddies, you on the other side think that it doesn't need a doctoral thesis (unlike the Kronos), now tell a professional who is unable to learn to use a WORKstation, how to make a split on the JP80 with five different patches.
Let's just see if that's something so easy that even idiots will understand it, or if it will require some menu diving, just like on the Kronos.
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PauloF
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Re: J80 Price - Ouch!

Post by PauloF »

mojkarma wrote:
PauloF wrote: Comparing an Oasys derived workstation with a performance oriented synth doesn't seem to be logical.
They serve two different purposes, but again can be good complements not one or the other.
In fact, the comparison is perfectly logical and doable.
As we all know, workstations are workstations just because of the built in sequencer. If you don't need it, don't use it. The rest is perfectly comparable to a "performance" oriented keyboard.
Since the first widely affordable workstation (the M1), people have used them on stage (=performance) for decades. Take the M1, the 01/W, the Trinity, Triton, Oasys (Jordan Rudess to name just one), Motifs, Kurzweil Kxxx-Series even Fantoms (they are all workstations), ...
What makes a keyboard a (good) performance keyboard?
1. Sounds
2. Effects
3. Multitimbral use (splitting, layering a couple of patches)

All this you will find in every single workstation keyboard out there. Korg doesn't produce special performance keyboard at all, with the exception of sam small cheap models. If people would be so focused on some vague terminology, we wouldn't see Korg at all on stages.
Terminologies apart, for me it is not logical to compare different things, if you are comparing functions, but if you are just looking at the price, I do understand why you are comparing them... as the Kronos "seems" to have much more for the same price tag. If that is what matters to you, go ahead, buy the Kronos.

The important things to take into consideration, are if they produce the sounds you need, and if they have all the features you need on Studio and/or on Stage, depending on the use you are going to give it, not what others use, want or need...

If you ask me what I would choose, well if I had no economic barriers, I would go for both (amongst other boars), but if I had to choose one I would choose the one that best suits me, not because it has x Bells and whistles that I (most probably) would neve use.
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delirium
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Re: J80 Price - Ouch!

Post by delirium »

PauloF wrote: Terminologies apart, for me it is not logical to compare different things, if you are comparing functions, but if you are just looking at the price, I do understand why you are comparing them... as the Kronos "seems" to have much more for the same price tag.
what are you talking about? both are digital instruments producing sounds, right?
It's perfectly legitimate to compare them.
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PauloF
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Re: J80 Price - Ouch!

Post by PauloF »

delirium wrote:
PauloF wrote: Terminologies apart, for me it is not logical to compare different things, if you are comparing functions, but if you are just looking at the price, I do understand why you are comparing them... as the Kronos "seems" to have much more for the same price tag.
what are you talking about? both are digital instruments producing sounds, right?
It's perfectly legitimate to compare them.
What am I talking about? Yes they "both are digital instruments producing sounds", but the similarity ends there...as we all could see and hear from all the demos and videos.
And again...
The important things to take into consideration, are if they produce the sounds you need, and if they have all the features you need on Studio and/or on Stage, depending on the use you are going to give it, not what others use, want or need...
Why not comparing the Kronos with the XF? or with the Oasys? that's more logical to me, but you're absolutely free to keep comparing apples with potatoes, that's fine with me... ;-)
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