Lack of posts a sign?

Forum for JUPITER-80
Devnor
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Re: Lack of posts a sign?

Post by Devnor »

No "clutching at straws" here I'm set to receive my Kronos mid June. I hate fans in audio gear...period.
realtrance
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Joined: 16:39, 8 April 2005

Re: Lack of posts a sign?

Post by realtrance »

I absolutely refuse to buy anything posing as a keyboard instrument that's really just a PC with an eventually-if-not immediately noisy fan. That's not a musician's instrument, to me; that's just a computer. :)
mojkarma
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Re: Lack of posts a sign?

Post by mojkarma »

Some people are really funny!
Each device with a microprocessor is basically a computer. The fan doesn't make a difference at all.
We wan't 512 voice polyphony, dozens of effects at once, we want gigabytes of samples, we want some supernatural sounds or the killer VA with hundred oscillators ... How difficult is it to understand that all this requires a fast and capable processor?
You dont't want to buy the keyboard because in your wrong opinion it is just a "pc"? Fine. Get over it and buy a Steinway or Hammond.
Python
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Re: Lack of posts a sign?

Post by Python »

Well, just to give ONE simple answer to the actual question in the thread, the main difference here is that both korg forums and yamaha forums is actually both supported and even promoted by their companies. That means they have a lot more activity in general AND they're able to provide amswers you could NOT get anywhere else.
I actually have quite a hard time understanding why roland doesn't follow this procedure and let one of their product speciqlists participate on this forum OR create a REAL roland forum.
No offence guys, this forum is great, and I don't frequent the other sites sice I mainly have roland gear. But the OP is right that they COULD create a LOT more hype by jumping on board on these forums.
I guess the simple answer is that the kronos questions get answered by employees. Here, every other thread ends with 'we'll just have to wait and see'. That's what's kept me from starting a couple of threads here anyways...
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PauloF
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Re: Lack of posts a sign?

Post by PauloF »

mojkarma wrote:Some people are really funny!
Each device with a microprocessor is basically a computer. The fan doesn't make a difference at all.
We wan't 512 voice polyphony, dozens of effects at once, we want gigabytes of samples, we want some supernatural sounds or the killer VA with hundred oscillators ... How difficult is it to understand that all this requires a fast and capable processor?
You dont't want to buy the keyboard because in your wrong opinion it is just a "pc"? Fine. Get over it and buy a Steinway or Hammond.
Agree, besides that there are fans and FANS ;-)

just recalled that I have an iMAC and I hardly hear it's fan... But I know that is there and working...
it's just a matter of using a good quality one!!

Regarding the lack of Threads/Posts, well, if you really count them they are quite a few, but as Mystic38 said, this JP-80 Forum is now relatively quiet due to no news about the beast. We really have to wait for more detailed information before people "jump".
Just MHO
realtrance
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Re: Lack of posts a sign?

Post by realtrance »

mojkarma wrote:Some people are really funny!
Each device with a microprocessor is basically a computer. The fan doesn't make a difference at all.
We wan't 512 voice polyphony, dozens of effects at once, we want gigabytes of samples, we want some supernatural sounds or the killer VA with hundred oscillators ... How difficult is it to understand that all this requires a fast and capable processor?
You dont't want to buy the keyboard because in your wrong opinion it is just a "pc"? Fine. Get over it and buy a Steinway or Hammond.
Well actually at this point I have all the flexibility and more that Kronos might offer, on my PC; all I have to do is hook it up to a keyboard if I want to use that as a controller.

I'm very sensitive to fan noise; it, in my opinion, takes about 8 bits out of the sound floor you might hear with high-quality audio, and thus degrades everything substantially in terms of sound quality. I like to hear the subtleties and details of the sounds I'm working with, and other than isolating myself completely with, say, earphones, that's impossible with a fan whirring in the background. Why pay for high audio quality if you can't hear it? Okay, I guess if all you're concerned with is recording it into a DAW, it doesn't matter. But, for me, the pleasure in making music does not only resolve itself into that. And again, if that's what you're after.... get Komplete 7 and Sonar/Logic/Ableton Live 8 and be done with it, easier and better integration that way anyways. ;)

So, Kronos is just completely out, for that reason alone. I've had many devices over the years that start off with promises of "inaudible fan" -- it doesn't stay that way for long.
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PauloF
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Re: Lack of posts a sign?

Post by PauloF »

realtrance wrote:
mojkarma wrote:Some people are really funny!
Each device with a microprocessor is basically a computer. The fan doesn't make a difference at all.
We wan't 512 voice polyphony, dozens of effects at once, we want gigabytes of samples, we want some supernatural sounds or the killer VA with hundred oscillators ... How difficult is it to understand that all this requires a fast and capable processor?
You dont't want to buy the keyboard because in your wrong opinion it is just a "pc"? Fine. Get over it and buy a Steinway or Hammond.
Well actually at this point I have all the flexibility and more that Kronos might offer, on my PC; all I have to do is hook it up to a keyboard if I want to use that as a controller.

I'm very sensitive to fan noise; it, in my opinion, takes about 8 bits out of the sound floor you might hear with high-quality audio, and thus degrades everything substantially in terms of sound quality. I like to hear the subtleties and details of the sounds I'm working with, and other than isolating myself completely with, say, earphones, that's impossible with a fan whirring in the background. Why pay for high audio quality if you can't hear it? Okay, I guess if all you're concerned with is recording it into a DAW, it doesn't matter. But, for me, the pleasure in making music does not only resolve itself into that. And again, if that's what you're after.... get Komplete 7 and Sonar/Logic/Ableton Live 8 and be done with it, easier and better integration that way anyways. ;)

So, Kronos is just completely out, for that reason alone. I've had many devices over the years that start off with promises of "inaudible fan" -- it doesn't stay that way for long.
I disagree with your comment, as all the COMPUTERS also have at least one fan, sometimes several, and normally VERY NOISY - unless you have a Mac of course :-)- , so I don't understand your comparison...
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dbijoux
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Re: Lack of posts a sign?

Post by dbijoux »

Unless you've got out the SPL meter and already have put the effort into a treated room, all this talk about a little noise seems like rubbish to me. 8 bits eh? LOL. Even if you actually had 48db of fan noise, #1 it's not going to be spread evenly across all of the spectrum, #2 even if it was you'd still have ample headroom above the floor, and #3 it's really a moot point listening to most modern music that is more often than not compressed to a dynamic range of only 10db. I'm not even going to get into critical bands.

Ok, this is where you tell me again that you have super-sensitive hearing and can't focus on anything with that damn fan blowing in your ears. So, put your headphones back on.

Let's get back to reality now.

Why are we talking about Kronos' fan on Jupiter-80 forum?
mojkarma
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Re: Lack of posts a sign?

Post by mojkarma »

realtrance,
it's so obvious that you obviously have no clue about recording and the technique around recording and mixing.
The Kronos as any other keyboard will not take any bits away from your music. You can record it digitally and preserve every single bit. You'll already destroy it in the process of mastering. BTW, what do you do if you want to record an electric guitar? Have you ever heard the noise coming out from an amplified overdriven guitar speaker?
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dbijoux
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Re: Lack of posts a sign?

Post by dbijoux »

What's really funny is that I even turn a fan on and usually have a tv or two in the background somewhere when mixing.

Realtrance must drive a Bentley and only listen to Chopin.
mojkarma
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Re: Lack of posts a sign?

Post by mojkarma »

dbijoux wrote: Realtrance must drive a Bentley and only listen to Chopin.
Yes, but only of it's not rainy. The rain takes at least 4 - 6 bits of from the music.
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PauloF
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Re: Lack of posts a sign?

Post by PauloF »

mojkarma wrote:
dbijoux wrote: Realtrance must drive a Bentley and only listen to Chopin.
Yes, but only of it's not rainy. The rain takes at least 4 - 6 bits of from the music.
Correction... 6-8 bits if it's raining like "cats and dogs" !!

LoL
JavaJ
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Re: Lack of posts a sign?

Post by JavaJ »

Fans in a keyboard. Nope. Not going to do it. It might be fine if you "lease" your equipment and don't plan on keeping it for 20+ years (then again, nothing seems to be built to be a future classic anymore). They should have just made the entire bottom out of a heat conductive material to dissipate the heat. Why would you tout SSD technology and then add a "spinning" anything to the unit??
mojkarma
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Re: Lack of posts a sign?

Post by mojkarma »

JavaJ wrote: Why would you tout SSD technology and then add a "spinning" anything to the unit??
Maybe because of the processor? Do you really believe that you they didn't consider other ways of dissipating heat? And the reason why they use SSD is probably not only the "spinning" but other factors? More resistance to physical damage, faster read/write times, and so on.
Seriously, what's next? BTW, good that you mention SSD. I'm waiting until somebody comes here and says that he refuses to buy a keyboard with a HD because it reminds him on a computer.
People, get over it. You either buy an instrument where you think it will fit your needs in the best way, or you limit yourself in the choice because of some ridiculous phobia about the wildest things where you think it's a reason not to buy it. I wouldn't wonder if somebody comes up and says that he wont buy a black colored keyboard because black reminds him on death.
markWar
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Re: Lack of posts a sign?

Post by markWar »

Dear mojkarma,

If you like fans (or if you're indifferent to them, or resigned to them), then good for you. Enjoy all the many products which, these days, include fans.

But some people have lived a different life than you. Some people think different thoughts than you. Some people, in short, are not you.

That doesn't make them bad. Or stupid.

You may not believe this--but it's true!--if many products you own contain fans then, over the years, YOU may come to hate fans, too. Time will tell. Many years from now maybe you will look back at these posts where you laugh at people who have had different experiences than you, and you will think, "Ooops, I was a jerk, wasn't I?"
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