Jupiter 80 questions (Nord Stage 2 / Kronos)

[Mystic38]

Congratulations..

Looking forward to a real thread on the jp80!

[Chrisk-K]

There are numbers on a penny?

Oh my, I need reading glasses!

Yes. There are microscopic numbers on a penny.

[audioird]

Hi,

Finally I gave back my (ex) Jupiter 80. I'll share my experience so maybe it can help someone.

I was very enthusiast the first hours, everything is easy, logical, handy, and it sounds great. I began some prog to get the sounds I need to play "Superstition" (Stevie Wonder) and "Africa" (Toto).

Some good points :
- I obtained a pad / string for Africa that was ... HUGE...
- The trumpet for Superstition was very good too
- I could layer marimba/bells and flute for the solo ... easy !
- In the system config menu you can attach any button (the colored ones you know ...) to any tone or live set you make.

Some bad points :
- There is only 1 fwah filter effect, and the "level" can't be controlled (pedal CC)
- Clavinet : There is only 2 clav sounds and a few variations (you could do them with freq & filter), nothing close to a clavinet D6 for instance, and the only "supernatural" parameter is the key release noise level.
- The same goes for other SN acoustics sounds, again, only one guitar of each type (acoustics, spanish, steel, distorded) and nothing to really change the sounds in the SN parameters. To those who know "Applied Acoustics String Studio" or "Lounge lizard" for instance, SuperNatural is not emulation and far from it.
- The piano is miles away from Roland RD700sx, I think that the jp80 does not have the sames samples at all. It sounds like a synth.

I spent the rest of my time tweaking the synth. There are infinite possibilities (parameters and layerings) on one side, and very limited resources on the other side (a few waveforms, about 382 samples, a few effects).
Maybe you all know about this Roland Voice sound that makes "doohh" and "daahh", you wont find the tone already made, but you have the samples to do it (among the 382).

I have been fooled by Roland's advertising which is mainly about "SuperNatural" and acoustic sounds.
SN Acoustic is such a small facet of this Jupiter 80 compared to the VA synth part which is huge in layering and voice capacities. I found the Jupiter 80 is very user friendly, the interface is fantastic, the build quality is very good ... but this synth would worth its price if only one could upload its own samples into it.

[PauloF]

Hi,

Finally I gave back my (ex) Jupiter 80. I'll share my experience so maybe it can help someone.

I was very enthusiast the first hours, everything is easy, logical, handy, and it sounds great. I began some prog to get the sounds I need to play "Superstition" (Stevie Wonder) and "Africa" (Toto).

Some good points :
- I obtained a pad / string for Africa that was ... HUGE...
- The trumpet for Superstition was very good too
- I could layer marimba/bells and flute for the solo ... easy !
- In the system config menu you can attach any button (the colored ones you know ...) to any tone or live set you make.

Some bad points :
- There is only 1 fwah filter effect, and the "level" can't be controlled (pedal CC)
- Clavinet : There is only 2 clav sounds and a few variations (you could do them with freq & filter), nothing close to a clavinet D6 for instance, and the only "supernatural" parameter is the key release noise level.
- The same goes for other SN acoustics sounds, again, only one guitar of each type (acoustics, spanish, steel, distorded) and nothing to really change the sounds in the SN parameters. To those who know "Applied Acoustics String Studio" or "Lounge lizard" for instance, SuperNatural is not emulation and far from it.
- The piano is miles away from Roland RD700sx, I think that the jp80 does not have the sames samples at all. It sounds like a synth.

I spent the rest of my time tweaking the synth. There are infinite possibilities (parameters and layerings) on one side, and very limited resources on the other side (a few waveforms, about 382 samples, a few effects).
Maybe you all know about this Roland Voice sound that makes "doohh" and "daahh", you wont find the tone already made, but you have the samples to do it (among the 382).

I have been fooled by Roland's advertising which is mainly about "SuperNatural" and acoustic sounds.
SN Acoustic is such a small facet of this Jupiter 80 compared to the VA synth part which is huge in layering and voice capacities. I found the Jupiter 80 is very user friendly, the interface is fantastic, the build quality is very good ... but this synth would worth its price if only one could upload its own samples into it.

... although you seem very happy with the good points, the few bad points that you mention made you return it?

[Bruce Lychee]

With all due respect, I'm not sure how you can possibly say the pianos on the 700SX are in any way better than the SN pianos which are also on the 700NX. I have owned the 700SX and the Fantom G. The SN pianos are in a different league. The only pianos I really prefer to the SN pianos are those on my Kronos.

[PauloF]

With all due respect, I'm not sure how you can possibly say the pianos on the 700SX are in any way better than the SN pianos which are also on the 700NX. I have owned the 700SX and the Fantom G. The SN pianos are in a different league. The only pianos I really prefer to the SN pianos are those on my Kronos.

@bruce,
I know this is a JP-80 Topic, but would like to know your impressions about the Kronos, as from what I've seen, heard and read, the Kronos seems to be a very serious, complete and versatile workstation, which I'm considering for my next purchase, provided the money gets in... :-)

cheers
Paulo

P.S: Maybe it's better to post in OTHER GEAR

[Bruce Lychee]

The Kronos is a great workstation with the best pianos and EPs . It is basically the guts of the OASYS with much better pianos and EPs. That being said, I do think the Kronos suffers from minor issues. Build quality is not on par with Roland or Yamaha products. They chose some cheaper plastics for important parts. This may not bother you, but I wish they had charged more and provided better construction and materials. The second related issue is that the GUI has a ton of information on there and coupled with the cheap data wheel, it isn't the greatest tactile experience.

Those minor issues aside, I would recommend the Kronos to anyone looking for a versatile workstation. It is a great value too.

Pm me with any specific questions you may have.

[audioird]

Yes Paulo, I returned the Jupiter 80 for the reasons I stated above.

The Nord Stage 2 is more suited to my needs and I can't afford and don't want 2 keyboards.

First I tried and returned the Kronos because of its user interface. I use computers and VSTs a lot and I cant believe that Korg put such complex screens on such a small touch screen, no mouse, no video output.

I expected the Jupiter 80 to be my only keyboard, on the paper... but I returned it because I could not get the sounds I wanted, mainly because "SuperNatural" sounds are not editable and there are too few (nearly about one or two instrument in some categories) and because the 382 samples provided for the VA synth part are soo ... soo (sounds like my old Roland U20). Also many sound categories are empty, the factory presets are very poor. I asked myself it was an early-released version.

Regarding the Nord Stage 2, I changed my mind, only 2 oscillators is enough because I can put the samples I want. For 300 € more than the Jupiter 80 I took the 88 keys and get a much more confortable keyboard too.

On the Jupiter 80, to get a LP filter sensible to velocity, that can't be done with (filter) effects (velocity cant be a controler), so you must edit the tone (each tone of a live set), go to "synth edit", then go to "pro edit", chose the part (osc), select the "vel sens" and turn the wheel. On the NS2 you just turn one knob.

[Bruce Lychee]

Supernatural sounds are not editable? That is incorrect. You just save the edits in the registration.

There are 382 PCMs but that is 1 of 8 choices, ( the other seven being VA wave forms) for each of 3 partials In each synth tone.

You did go through the 2000+ factory tones? I do understand in some cases there are few choices, but that is usually because you have parameters to change the sound. The organ would be an example. SN sounds are almost entirely modeled so you wouldn't really need many base variations.

I like the Nord too, so I don't question your choice, but they are very different boards with different sounds.

[audioird]

SN sounds are not editable, you only can modify a very few parameters and you dont get very much different instruments for one category. This is not a surprise because it was clear in Roland's manuel (Parameter List).

SN is not "modelisation", far from what is done with the VSTs I mentioned above, for instance.

I went through all the factory presets before programming myself and found that the synth is far more powerfull than what's given from scratch. It's a huge synth, but it has its own sounds, not a synth to do everything imho. 382 + 8 that makes 390 different sources for an oscillator ... OK ! :)
I prefer NS2 for the keyboard and the Nord Sample Editor I begin to recreate all the sounds I need.

With a NS2, for sure, I don't get a trumpet nor a guitar sounding as good as Jupiter's SN. It is probably true for Strings and other acoustic sounds, and it is not possible to layer as many sounds, but I do not need that. Strings and Trumpets on the NS2 are mono layer and it sounds ... you know :) not too bad.

[Bruce Lychee]

You can edit SN sounds and save them in the registration. I'm not sure why you keep saying they aren't editable. Look at the single SN organ and look at all the parameters you can edit. You can create vastly different organ sounds with the single SN organ. Some SN sounds don't have many parameters to edit, but it depends what instrument you are talking about.

The articulations can encompass very different things for different instruments. I have started to cover some of them in my audio demo thread. They aren't going to give you the level of control you get via programming, but they will give you multiple real time articulations that make the Jupiter a uniquely expressive synth for players.

[audioird]

Some SN sounds don't have many parameters to edit, but it depends what instrument you are talking about.

Yes.

For details per instrument, it is stated in the manual, I was disapointed by the clav, e pianos, piano, guitar, trumpet, accordion, and many others.

It's true for the organ.

Of course all can be stored in a registration.

[Bruce Lychee]

Some SN sounds don't have many parameters to edit, but it depends what instrument you are talking about.

Yes.

For details per instrument, it is stated in the manual, I was disapointed by the clav, e pianos, piano, guitar, trumpet, accordion, and many others.

It's true for the organ.

Of course all can be stored in a registration.

Ok. So it seems when you say they aren't editable you mean they aren't editable to your satisfaction? I can't argue wither your personal preferences. I am not crazy about the EPs but can't say I agree in other areas.

Some articulations are triggered by the damper pedal. What I am learning is that you have to spend time with each voice and learn the associated articulations. Also, it is best to use them in moderation in many cases.

[audioird]

I agree with you on articulations, but ... I wish some variations were velocity sensitive, like the swirl on the trumpet for instance, or pizzicatos, or guitar mutes, I had to press S1 or S2 ... not very handy.
I found some articulation replacing my playing I would not use them on guitars (struming can be disactivated) for instance.
The marimba / xylo pitch bending is easier to do with the hand, sliding like an organ player.

[Bruce Lychee]

I agree with you on articulations, but ... I wish some variations were velocity sensitive, like the swirl on the trumpet for instance, or pizzicatos, or guitar mutes, I had to press S1 or S2 ... not very handy.
I found some articulation replacing my playing I would not use them on guitars for instance.
The marimba / xylo pitch bending could be done with the hand, sliding like an organ player.

Try the damper pedal on some of those. Also, with a guitar patch like the flamenco guitar, you have to use the articulation to get certain effects. I find using it in moderation works best and create the most realistic presentation.