I/O

[Melodialworks]

I'm assuming unbalanced audio (1/4") and no digital I/O. Would that be correct? Thanks.

[Amazing One]

I'm assuming unbalanced audio (1/4") and no digital I/O. Would that be correct? Thanks.

Hi Melodialworks, welcome to Roland Clan! There is digital out as well as USB audio and 1/4-inch phone type etc. The following is a list of the Jupiter-80’s connection possibilities....

Connectors

PHONES jack (stereo 1/4-inch phone type)
MAIN OUT jacks (L, R) (XLR type)
MAIN OUT jacks (L/MONO, R) (1/4-inch TRS phone type)
SUB OUT jacks (L, R) (1/4-inch phone type)
AUDIO IN jack (Stereo miniature phone type)
DIGITAL AUDIO OUT jack (COAXIAL)
FOOT PEDAL jacks (CTRL 1, CTRL 2, HOLD)
MIDI Connectors (IN, OUT, THRU)
USB COMPUTER port (Audio/MIDI)
USB Memory port
AC IN jack

Also check here for more info.

Enjoy the forum Melodialworks!

[Amazing One]

Here is another awesome website dedicated to the Jupiter-80 with a wealth of demos and information, hope you enjoy it!

[PauloF]

I'm assuming unbalanced audio (1/4") and no digital I/O. Would that be correct? Thanks.

Welcome to the Clan!!
Just to complement Amazing's post, YES, there are Balanced Outputs, and Yes, there are Digital OUT too.
;-)

[Melodialworks]

Thanks. I had somehow missed the Digital OUT, and wasn't sure if '1/4-inch TRS phone type' meant balanced or unbalanced.

[Mystic38]

1/4" TRS is balanced.., 1/4" TR is unbalanced

Thanks. I had somehow missed the Digital OUT, and wasn't sure if '1/4-inch TRS phone type' meant balanced or unbalanced.

[PauloF]

1/4" TRS is balanced.., 1/4" TR is unbalanced

Thanks. I had somehow missed the Digital OUT, and wasn't sure if '1/4-inch TRS phone type' meant balanced or unbalanced.

Well...we could see it that way, but not exactly accurate.

¼ inch connectors are widely used to connect external processing devices to mixing consoles' insert points (see Insert (effects processing)). TRS or TS connectors might be used in pairs as separate Send and Return jacks or a single TRS jack might be employed for both Send and Return in which case the signals are unbalanced. The single unbalanced combination Send/Return TRS insert jack saves both panel space and component complexity. Note that mixing console insert points can also be XLR, RCA or Bantam TT (tiny telephone) jacks, depending on the make and model.

Tip/ring/sleeve terminology
1. Sleeve: usually ground
2. Ring: Right-hand channel for stereo signals, negative polarity for balanced mono signals, power supply for power-requiring mono signal sources
3. Tip: Left-hand channel for stereo signals, positive polarity for balanced mono signals, signal line for unbalanced mono signals
4. Insulating rings
In twisted pair wiring to this day, the non-inverting and/or "live" (or "hot") wire of each pair is known as the ring, while the inverting and/or "earthy" (or "neutral") wire is known as the tip, inherited from the traditional connection via the TRS connector in telephone systems. If the pair is shielded, or if the pair is accompanied by a dedicated earth wire, this third conductor is known as the sleeve. This usage corresponds to the connection to a three-connector jack plug in a manual telephone exchange. This appears to have originated with the use of TRS jacks by switchboard operators with the tip and ring wires attached to the corresponding parts of the jack. Originally, the hot and ground were reversed, but often the metallic desktops of the switch boards were scarred by the discharge from the tips and the system was reversed to the present usage.[citation needed]
The term tip ring sleeve is more common in some English-speaking countries than others. Outside of the USA the term stereo jack plug is probably more common, even for connectors not used for stereo. The modern profile three-conductor jack plug was originally designed for stereo signal connections, with left channel on the tip, right on the ring and common return on the body or sleeve. The term TRS is particularly appropriate to distinguish these three-conductor (stereo) plugs used in other than stereo applications.

_______Unbalanced mono in/out_Unbalanced mono insert_Balanced mono in/out_Unbalanced stereo
Tip____Signal____________________Send or Return signal___Positive/"Hot"_________Left channel
Ring___Ground or No Connection_Return or Send signal___Negative/"Cold"_______Right channel
Sleeve_Ground___________________Ground_________________Ground_______________Ground

Audio
When a TRS is used to make a balanced connection, the two active conductors are both used for a monaural signal. The ring, used for the right channel in stereo systems, is used instead for the inverting input. This is a common use in small audio mixing desks, where space is a premium and they offer a more compact alternative to XLR connectors. Another advantage offered by TRS connectors used for balanced microphone inputs is that a standard unbalanced signal lead using a mono jack plug can simply be plugged into such an input. The ring (right channel) contact then makes contact with the plug body, correctly grounding the inverting input.
The disadvantage of using TRS jacks for balanced audio connections is that the ground mates last and the socket grounds the plug tip and ring when inserting or pulling out the plug. This causes bursts of hum, cracks and pops and may stress some outputs as they will be short circuited briefly, or longer if the plug is left half in. Professional audio equipment uses XLR connectors which mate the ground signal on pin 1 first.
TRS connectors are also commonly used as unbalanced audio patch points (or insert points, or simply inserts), with the output on many mixers found on the tip (left channel) and the input on the ring (right channel). This is often expressed as "tip send, ring return." Other mixers have unbalanced insert points with "ring send, tip return." One advantage of this system is that the switch contact within the panel socket, originally designed for other purposes, can be used to close the circuit when the patch point is not in use. An advantage of the "tip send" patch point is that if it is used as an output only, a 2-conductor mono jack plug correctly grounds the input. In the same fashion, use of a "tip return" insert style allows a mono jack plug to bring an unbalanced signal directly into the circuit, though in this case the output must be robust enough to withstand being grounded. Combining Send and Return functions via single 1/4″ TRS connectors in this way is seen in very many professional and semi-professional audio mixing desks, due to the halving of space needed for insert jack fields which would otherwise require two jacks, one for Send and one for Return. The tradeoff is that unbalanced signals are more prone to buzz, hum and outside interference.
In some TRS inserts, the concept is extended by using specially designed TRS jacks that will accept a mono jack plug partly inserted "to the first click" and will then connect the tip to the signal path without breaking it. Most standard TRS jacks can also be used in this way with varying success, but neither the switch contact nor the tip contact can be relied upon unless the internal contacts have been designed with extra strength for holding the plug tip in place. Even with stronger contacts, an accidental mechanical movement of the inserted plug can interrupt signal within the circuit. For maximum reliability, any usage involving "first click" or "half-click" positions will instead rewire the plug to short Tip and Ring together and then insert this modified plug all the way into the jack.
The TRS Tip Return, Ring Send unbalanced insert configuration is mostly found on older mixers. This allowed for the insert jack to serve as a standard-wired mono line input that would bypass the mic preamp (and likely a resistive pad, as well as other circuitry, depending on the design), and thus improve sound quality. However tip send has become the generally accepted standard for mixer inserts since the early-to-mid 1990s. The TRS Ring Send configuration is still found on some compressor sidechain input jacks such as the dbx 166XL.[16]
In some very compact equipment, 3.5 mm TRS jacks are used as patch points.
Some sound recording devices use a TRS as a mono microphone input, using the tip as the signal path and the ring to connect a standby switch on the microphone.

So basically the TRS can be used on both Balanced and Unbalanced Audio applications, although is most common used (and known) as balanced type plugs.
For the reasons seen above (grounding clicks and pops when connecting), the XLR is the Professional grade type of plug to be used for Balanced Audio applications.

[Mystic38]

it is totally accurate in the construct of a discussion of main output (L,R) jacks.

if, however you wish to be pedantic, you could precede to my post the folowing disclaimer.. Its the mains out (L,R) jacks, so, as its not a headphone out jack, and its not a stereo out jack and its not a send/return jack ..then, given we all know we are talking about the mains out L,R jacks the phrase "1/4"TRS is balanced ..etc etc.." is correct.

:p ..lol

[PauloF]

it is totally accurate in the construct of a discussion of main output (L,R) jacks.

if, however you wish to be pedantic, you could precede to my post the folowing disclaimer.. Its the mains out (L,R) jacks, so, as its not a headphone out jack, and its not a stereo out jack and its not a send/return jack ..then, given we all know we are talking about the mains out L,R jacks the phrase "1/4"TRS is balanced ..etc etc.." is correct.

:p ..lol

I was responding someone else's question...and your answer IS incomplete, as TRS does not mean Balanced, as there are A LOT of Audio equipment using TRS type plugs on their outputs which do not have Balanced circuitry.

and please do me a favor and call pedantic to someone else... ;-P

[Mystic38]

Paulof,
I am seriously confused here... There is nothing in the extensive wiki article which in any way contradicts or disagrees with what I said....Note that every other connection than a balanced mono output mentioned for a TRS is a mic, headphone, send/return...etc.. Ie is associated with things other than a mono L, R mains out..

Despite this, to me it seems you are asserting that you can have a main mono output with a 1/4" TRS socket and is not balanced?.. If that is what you aree saying then how can it be wired and still conform to the wiki article posted?

So i shall simply repeat my statement by paraphrase and let it go...

Given that it is a mono output, there is no other standard or commonly accepted way to connect a TRS socket other than as a balanced line.. whether you take advantage of it with TRS cables or not is a different matter.

Take care

[PauloF]

Paulof,
I am seriously confused here... There is nothing in the extensive wiki article which in any way contradicts or disagrees with what I said....Note that every other connection than a balanced mono output mentioned for a TRS is a mic, headphone, send/return...etc.. Ie is associated with things other than a mono L, R mains out..

Despite this, to me it seems you are asserting that you can have a main mono output with a 1/4" TRS socket and is not balanced?.. If that is what you aree saying then how can it be wired and still conform to the wiki article posted?

So i shall simply repeat my statement by paraphrase and let it go...

Given that it is a mono output, there is no other standard or commonly accepted way to connect a TRS socket other than as a balanced line.. whether you take advantage of it with TRS cables or not is a different matter.

Take care

Hi Mystic,
I'm not trying to confuse you in any way, just wanted to say that the TRS doesn't mean Balanced all the time.
In fact there are occasions where while TRS connectors are being used, the RING pole is internally grounded, making it a normal unbalanced Out.

In JUP-80's case, you are right, they are Balanced.

;-)

[Grammar Wombat]

If anyone at the Roland Clan deserves to be called "pedantic," IT IS I!

1/4" TRS is balanced.., 1/4" TR is unbalanced

True, in the context of the Jupiter-80's Main Out jacks.

Well...we could see it that way, but not exactly accurate.

True, in the more general context.

So you are both right… unfortunately.

**sigh**

When I woke up this morning, I knew it was going to be a bad day.

[PauloF]

If anyone at the Roland Clan deserves to be called "pedantic," IT IS I!

1/4" TRS is balanced.., 1/4" TR is unbalanced

True, in the context of the Jupiter-80's Main Out jacks.

Well...we could see it that way, but not exactly accurate.

True, in the more general context.

So you are both right… unfortunately.

**sigh**

When I woke up this morning, I knew it was going to be a bad day.

lol Grammar

;-D

[Melodialworks]

I'm not trying to confuse you in any way, just wanted to say that the TRS doesn't mean Balanced all the time.

Well, confusion on this issue seems reasonable, because the reason I posted was that I had looked up the definition, and seemed to get "balanced' and also 'unbalanced', hence the original post.

Let's blame Roland! Typically specifications will read balanced, if it's balanced - which leaves no room for confusion. In this case, they didn't specify.

Lawrence

[Amazing One]

I'm not trying to confuse you in any way, just wanted to say that the TRS doesn't mean Balanced all the time.

Well, confusion on this issue seems reasonable, because the reason I posted was that I had looked up the definition, and seemed to get "balanced' and also 'unbalanced', hence the original post.

Let's blame Roland! Typically specifications will read balanced, if it's balanced - which leaves no room for confusion. In this case, they didn't specify.

Lawrence

Hi Melodialworks, it’s on page 21 of the JUPITER-80 owner’s manual.

This instrument is equipped with balanced (XLR/TRS) type jacks.